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Old 03-15-2021, 12:25 PM   #881
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Originally Posted by tap2390 View Post
This. We as fans collectively lack patience and for some reason Mavs fans seem especially prone to cynicism and undervaluing their own players.
Mavs fans are no different than any other sports fans. All sports fans overreact both positively and negatively in pretty much equal amounts. When the team is good, they're locks to win the championship and everyone should make the all-star team. When the team loses a few games, the sky is falling, the coach and GM need to fired and everyone needs to be traded.

I'll say that KP is probably a top 50 player... but not much higher than that. Arguably top 40, but no way am I going higher than 35-ish. Top 20 is frankly laughable. Sure, he has stretches where he plays at an all-nba level, maybe even more than that, but those are way too few and far between. You can't just look at the absolute best of Porzingis and then ignore how maddeningly inconsistent he is, either in terms of his production or simply his availablility.

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*sigh* At this point, I'm ready to dump him for just about ANYTHING and be done with it. Keeping him just feels like sunk cost.
I posted that on Feb. 28. The Mavs had an entire week of rest due to the "Snowpacalypse," and yet KP still missed three straight games with back soreness. That was a breaking point for me. "This guy gets injured even when he's not playing, " I thought. I was ready to trade him for garbage at that point. Now I'll admit that was an overreaction.... but so is calling him a top 20 player after like 5 good games.

KP has played very well since missing those three games. In those five games, he's averaging over 50% from the field and over 40% from three. That's elite. But do I trust him to keep that up for the rest of the season and into the playoffs without getting hurt? Hell no. Even when he's not hurt, he has a tendency to shoot like 8-12 from three on one night, and then like 1-8 the next night. And when he's not hitting his threes, he's outright bad.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...ced_stats::per

Here's a list of all NBA players this year ranked by PER. KP isn't even on it... I assume because he hasn't played enough games?? (A common theme with him.) A look through the top 50 and I would take all but a handful of them over KP.

My honest, non-emotional take on him, having watched his entire NBA career up to this point (not just with the Mavs) is that he's a pretty good, but not great player, who is way too injury prone for me to feel comfortable relying on him to be anything more than a team's third option.

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Old 03-15-2021, 02:24 PM   #882
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So your saying there's 50 players this year averaging 21 PPG, 9 Rebounds and 2 Blocks while shooting 48% from the FG & 35% from 3 with a per of 21.50?
If he can stay on the court...yes. Absolutely. It is not about ability with him. It's about consistently being on the floor.
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Old 03-15-2021, 02:29 PM   #883
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Today he is in top 32 in scoring, top 17 in rebounds, top 8 in Blocks
Great. Again, it's not about ability. It's about being on the court consistently. He will probably miss 20+ games this year. He did the same last year in a shortened season. He missed the entire season the year before. He missed 34 the year before..16 the year before.. and 10 the year before.

He has played in 60% of regular season games in his career. That's awful. That doesn't even include missing three games in the playoffs when the Mavs had an opportunity to advance last year.

With that being said, I have not one time advocated trading the guy. He is supremely talented. But before I start anointing him as one of the top players in the league, I have to see him on the court a lot more often.

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Old 03-16-2021, 11:42 AM   #884
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Player A: 23 games played this season, 20.8 points, 8.4 rebounds, FG 49.2%, 3-point 37.2%, FT 83.8.

Player B: 23 games played, 22.5 points, 8.4 rebounds, FG 53.3%, 3-point 29.3%, FT 71.5%.

Player A is @kporzee
Player B is @AntDavis23, out at least 2 more weeks with leg issues.
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Old 03-16-2021, 11:43 AM   #885
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Player A: 23 games played this season, 20.8 points, 8.4 rebounds, FG 49.2%, 3-point 37.2%, FT 83.8.

Player B: 23 games played, 22.5 points, 8.4 rebounds, FG 53.3%, 3-point 29.3%, FT 71.5%.

Player A is @kporzee
Player B is @AntDavis23, out at least 2 more weeks with leg issues.
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Old 03-16-2021, 12:17 PM   #886
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Player A: 23 games played this season, 20.8 points, 8.4 rebounds, FG 49.2%, 3-point 37.2%, FT 83.8.

Player B: 23 games played, 22.5 points, 8.4 rebounds, FG 53.3%, 3-point 29.3%, FT 71.5%.

Player A is @kporzee
Player B is @AntDavis23, out at least 2 more weeks with leg issues.

Those stats are convenient atm.

Player A missed the playoffs and start of this season.
Player B won a title and has a great chance to repeat.

Player A is not a noteworthy defender.
Player B is a defensive stud.
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Old 03-16-2021, 12:25 PM   #887
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AND ---
And in less minutes (KP) 32.8 vs (AD) 30.3
And ~ 2 1/3 years younger
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Old 03-16-2021, 12:26 PM   #888
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AND ---
And in less minutes (KP) 32.8 vs (AD) 30.3
And ~ 2 1/3 years younger
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Old 03-16-2021, 09:38 PM   #889
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** double post

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Old 03-16-2021, 09:38 PM   #890
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We're really comparing KP to Anthony friggin Davis? Let's set aside those cherry-picked numbers and compare their resumes, shall we?

Anthony Davis- 8x all-star. 4x all-nba first team. 2x all-defensive first team. 2x all-defensive second team. NBA champion.

Kristaps Porzingis- 1x all star.

KP's numbers are indeed comparable to AD's so far this year. But all that shows is that AD is having a poor season by his standards. Not that KP is remotely on his level.

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Those stats are convenient atm.

Player A missed the playoffs and start of this season.
Player B won a title and has a great chance to repeat.

Player A is not a noteworthy defender.
Player B is a defensive stud.
"Defensive stud" is an understatement. AD is one of the best defensive big men the game has ever seen. He's also the best lob-finisher ever. AD is a generational talent. He's probably a top 40 all time player, and will probably end his career higher than that. KP on the other hand will probably end his career without ever making an all-NBA team.

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Old 03-17-2021, 05:22 AM   #891
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nah Thespiralgoeson - I'm not saying that KP is better - or even as good as - AD.
Just pointing out that 20 and 10 guys are hard to find.
Your point about AD's career is spot on and I agree with you.
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Old 03-17-2021, 05:22 AM   #892
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**damn** double post

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Old 03-19-2021, 12:36 AM   #893
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nah Thespiralgoeson - I'm not saying that KP is better - or even as good as - AD.
Just pointing out that 20 and 10 guys are hard to find.
Your point about AD's career is spot on and I agree with you.
Fair enough. KP does deserve credit. For a guy that a lot people- myself included- just wanted to be rid of earlier in the season, he has played through the adversity and seems like he's turned it around. He seems like he's found himself on defense again, and thank heavens for that.
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Old 03-19-2021, 11:40 PM   #894
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Great. Again, it's not about ability. It's about being on the court consistently. He will probably miss 20+ games this year. He did the same last year in a shortened season. He missed the entire season the year before. He missed 34 the year before..16 the year before.. and 10 the year before.

He has played in 60% of regular season games in his career. That's awful. That doesn't even include missing three games in the playoffs when the Mavs had an opportunity to advance last year.

With that being said, I have not one time advocated trading the guy. He is supremely talented. But before I start anointing him as one of the top players in the league, I have to see him on the court a lot more often.
Yes it is about ability. He is a rather one dimensional player who isn't really a creator on offense and has actually rather poor touch inside 10 feet for his height. I highly advocate moving Porzingis for a true 2nd create his own offense type scorer. It is laughable that Cuban would say he is a top 20 player. That would imply he is better than the best person on a dozen teams in the league. I can't think of one team in league where he would be the best player but I can think of most of the good teams where he would be lucky to be the 3rd best player on team.

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Old 03-19-2021, 11:45 PM   #895
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Originally Posted by dirt_dobber View Post
nah Thespiralgoeson - I'm not saying that KP is better - or even as good as - AD.
Just pointing out that 20 and 10 guys are hard to find.
Your point about AD's career is spot on and I agree with you.
Let me know when he becomes a 20 and 10 guy. He is like a 20 and 8.5 or 9 guy.
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Old 03-19-2021, 11:46 PM   #896
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I mean, no one is arguing about KP being the perfect choice

We just give him a chance and almost get value for him or we dump him for scraps and end up a worse team while giving two future first round picks.
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Old 03-19-2021, 11:48 PM   #897
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I mean, no one is arguing about KP being the perfect choice

We just give him a chance and almost get value for him or we dump him for scraps and end up a worse team while giving two future first round picks.
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Old 03-19-2021, 11:55 PM   #898
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I mean, no one is arguing about KP being the perfect choice

We just give him a chance and almost get value for him or we dump him for scraps and end up a worse team while giving two future first round picks.
Perhaps someone will be enamored by his Unicorness and bite on a trade that lands us a significant piece of the puzzle. Not advocating dumping for scraps. Keep him if that's the case.
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:49 AM   #899
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Perhaps someone will be enamored by his Unicorness and bite on a trade that lands us a significant piece of the puzzle. Not advocating dumping for scraps. Keep him if that's the case.
At this point, he is going to have to prove that he can stay on the court before you get anything remotely close to dollar to dollar value for the guy.
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Old 03-30-2021, 08:12 AM   #900
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If KP can be healthy for this playoff run I don't care how many regular season games he misses
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Old 03-30-2021, 09:17 AM   #901
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March - 21pts, 11reb, 2ast, 1blk on almost 50/40/82

But yeah, it only counts if he actually stays healthy when it matters (playoffs)

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Old 03-30-2021, 09:50 AM   #902
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KP scoring and rebounding is great. Kp getting 5 assists is big for us.
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Old 03-30-2021, 10:08 AM   #903
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KP scoring and rebounding is great. Kp getting 5 assists is big for us.
Yeah I think the biggest step he's yet to take is his passing.

Rick doesn't seem to be even trying to develop a PnR/PnP game for KP/Doncic, instead preferring to do a euro-flow offense, which definitely fits Doncic's passing game and the rest of the team has gotten it. When KP learns how to not only get the pass in the flow but also keep it moving, we could be really deadly. We've seen flashes for sure
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Old 03-30-2021, 10:56 AM   #904
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KP scoring and rebounding is great. Kp getting 5 assists is big for us.
I've always thought KP was a very good passer and would like to see more offense run through him as a facilitator. He's not going to create his own shot much, but at 7'3", dump the ball into him at the post and let him make a decision on what to do - pass out, hit cutters, et al. This works really well with Jokic in Denver, and I see no reason why this can't be explored with KP. KP doesn't have to be Jokic to be effective in this role. The lack of KP being used in this role should squarely be placed upon RC. I don't think it's the case that all of a sudden KP is a very good passer. He's just been poorly utilized. I think it's ridiculous how often he has been utilized like the world's tallest shooting guard on the offensive side. SMH

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Old 03-31-2021, 02:45 AM   #905
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I've always thought KP was a very good passer and would like to see more offense run through him as a facilitator. He's not going to create his own shot much, but at 7'3", dump the ball into him at the post and let him make a decision on what to do - pass out, hit cutters, et al. This works really well with Jokic in Denver, and I see no reason why this can't be explored with KP. KP doesn't have to be Jokic to be effective in this role. The lack of KP being used in this role should squarely be placed upon RC. I don't think it's the case that all of a sudden KP is a very good passer. He's just been poorly utilized. I think it's ridiculous how often he has been utilized like the world's tallest shooting guard on the offensive side. SMH
I’d like to see more of this too. KP is reallllly slow to feel the double team coming though and compounds this by often bringing the ball down low. I’d like to see him catch it and hold it high— he’s like 7’3! Make him watch Kevin McHale highlights on a loop or something.

It can be taught or learned though; Dirk had this problem and it was part of our 2006-7 problems. He became a MUCH better passer out of the post by ‘11.

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