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Old 05-13-2009, 11:00 PM   #1
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Default Who will stay and who will go?

Let the Nuggets enjoy this moment but next season should be our's.. For that, we need Dirk definitely and a reliable supporting cast. I see Bass and Hollins staying, maybe JHo, let's put up a tough and physical team this time.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:01 PM   #2
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Default Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread

Sigh...

Well, they have different directions they can go. IMO, I think they have quite a few assets to use to retool this roster. It's just a matter of which way they want to go with them. I think Cuban needs to get aggressive and pretty much say "Whatever it takes.." We usually try to lowball or be cute with trade proposals, now isn't the time for that b/c the end result will be overvaluing our guys and we're basically with the same roster all over again.

Kidd and the PG position? I would bring him back and I think he is decision #1 they have to make and stay firm on in the offseason. I think you bring him back. I know he does things that don't always wow you but he brings a ton to this team. I don't think he's part of the problem. The problem is that we don't have enough to go with him and Dirk. That was the problem when the Kidd deal went down. Yes, they gave up a lot to get him but they didn't follow through and bring another wing player to go along side with them. They went ahead and gave Josh more time and the experiment really didn't work to end last season and Josh has been hurt this year to really develop it more.

If you can't bring him back you've really gotta push hard to get guys like Felton, Sessions or Hinrich on this roster to fill the void. Straight up, none of them bring the full value that Kidd brings but they help. If Kidd stays a Maverick I think you still look at a PG in the draft to groom for the future. I wouldn't be surprised if they get some calls on JJ as well, he's shown some value as well and the price-tag isn't terrible on him. The Kidd decision is going to have an impact on JJ one way or another.

Dirk will have a decision as well. I don't really think it's in his nature to demand a deal out of town...but it's in the realm of possibilities. Maybe the issues that have been going on as of late make him say he wants a clean slate and wants to go somewhere else. It's obviously been a tough personal stretch for him but professionally he had a really stellar year. It doesn't take much to realize he needs more weapons besides him. Dallas just needs to get him more weapons.

Josh? I think I'm selling on him for good. He was huge at the end of the year and was a nice part of the stretch run. He definitely battled through the pain but injuries just seem to be a lingering problem with him. It's always going to be something with him I think. I'm just tired of the inconsistency on performance and even more so with the inconsistency on if he'll even see the court.

Jet? I think they'd consider shopping him but I don't think in this market that they'll find a taker. I'd be incredibly surprised if he was dealt...not that it's a bad surprise, it's just that was a really bad playoff run for him. Around the time he got hurt or a little before he just wasn't the same Jet.

Stack, Carroll and Damp ALL fall in the sell mode. Carroll can actually be packaged in a deal now and his contract gets easier to swallow but Damp and Stack are the big prizes that teams would look for in a deal. With Stack and Damp you really could make a push for Shaq or someone like Chandler. For some reason, I really think Shaq is going to wind up here in the summer...it's just a matter of how much we have to give up to get him. I think Dallas will want to bring him in as a 2nd Tier kind of move, so they'd use most or a good part of their assets to get the top tier move out of the way (probably a SG or swing player) and then leave the rest to get someone like Shaq. If that happens, I still want Hollins to be a part of the roster and I think that's somewhat likely of happening. He just needs to keep working on controlling his energy and developing more on defense. I'm not worried about the offense right now...just make people scared to try to bring stuff in the paint, Hollins.

It's interesting that Chandler and Shaq are targets because I think Phoenix and New Orleans might be interested in discussing a deal for their Centers. The problem at the deadline with Dallas pushing for Chandler was that Dallas is a major threat in the division for NO so that pretty much left that deal idea dead. Phoenix is in the conference but they're a team in limbo so it might not be as big of a risk and they're getting nice relief in the process. It still doesn't make total sense from an offensive standpoint because Amare and Chandler are finishers and will want the same spots on the court...same problem as before with Phoenix.

Bass vs Singleton? If you can keep Singleton on the cheap side, then I don't think it's an issue. I think he's just an energy guy and end of the bench material for now. Bass should be able to be retained because we can offer quite a bit of money to him and it won't dip into our major assets. The only way we get in trouble is if some team decides to really overpay for him...but again, in this market I don't think it's very likely. Bass might be a piece you have to decide on if you do a Shaq deal though. Phoenix will take salary relief but they want some talent coming in return also. So the decision might need to be made on him.

Wright will be better used as a bench player/glue guy so we need to bring more wing talent in the fold. You can do that either via trades or the MLE. If you look at trades the main players I'd look at are Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson, and Richard Jefferson. You can easily look at a salary dump move for Butler, just find whatever pieces Washington wants to make that happen. You'll have to make tougher decisions on pieces to move to get the rest of the guys and more than likely Josh has to be involved in the deal.

For the MLE you have to try to go big with someone like Artest. I don't really think he'll bite on the offer but there is a chance he could for 1 year and wait for the teams in 2010 for the big pay-day. Another option with the MLE is Ariza. I don't know if he would step up more in a scoring role (iffy) but he will bring some grit and defense. He's shown he can be a factor on a championship contending team. With all of that said, I still think Wright has a part on this roster. He might've been a disappointment to some but I think he was having to play a role that was a little too much for him to handle on a consistent basis.

If, for whatever reason, they use the MLE for backups...I'd look for more Bigs, guys like McDyess maybe even Sheldon Williams. Either way, we'll need more big bodies to help protect the paint as well, especially if basically keep the same front line we have now.

The time to love and overvalue this roster/core is beyond over now, It's time to let a good group of this team separate.
Keep Dirk and Kidd for sure and bring in stars, pitbulls, support..whatever you want to call it, bring them in for Dirk and Kidd.
Whatever it takes...
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:03 PM   #3
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My money's on Kidd walking, and we don't stand any chance at all without him. If it's up to me, we start rebuilding now and try to cash in on the fabled FA class of 2010.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:05 PM   #4
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I would be ok with letting Kidd go, if we actually use the money for something legit.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmacomic View Post
I would be ok with letting Kidd go, if we actually use the money for something legit.
We have money for HIM, we have his bird rights. That extra money goes away in a sense if we don't use it on him.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:08 PM   #6
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wait,

so that would be (in the best scenario, ditching howard, damp, etc.)

PG-Kidd (JJ)
SG-??? Jet? Heinrich? Korver? Wright?
SF-Artest
PF-Dirk (Bass)
C-Shaq (Hollins)

coached by carlisle.

wow. that looks stacked.

Last edited by pdh; 05-13-2009 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:18 PM   #7
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whatever you can do to get Dirk a true 2nd star to play with.

Howard is at high value thanks to closing the season well and the injury excuse for the denver series. Surely teams will be willing to believe that he's grown beyond his inconsistencies

Terry is at high value as well, thanks to an excellent season. His playoff disappearances will be overlooked for someone needing his talents.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:18 PM   #8
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We have to sign and trade Kidd. Letting him walk would be unacceptable for both the MBT and Kidd.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:20 PM   #9
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where on earth can we get a shooting guard?

seems like with some of these trades, we could get a slasher SF and big men, but what quality SG are out there? (assuming jet is gone)
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:20 PM   #10
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Staying
Dirk
Bass
Wright
Hollins
Williams
Going
Terry
JHO
Kidd
Damp
Singleton
George
Green
Stack
Caroll
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:23 PM   #11
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I don't see why anyone outside of Dirk should be untouchable.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:25 PM   #12
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The SG position itself is interchangeable. Guys I mentioned can clearly take the scoring role Josh had, at worst.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:26 PM   #13
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in reality?
Everyone will stay, and there will be no major changes.

Why? Because, "We still like our team. We were 1 bad call and 2 bad ankles from the WCF." Bank on it.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9 View Post
The SG position itself is interchangeable. Guys I mentioned can clearly take the scoring role Josh had, at worst.
Kidd
Artest
Dirk
Shaq

JJ
Bass
Hollins



is this possible??? i'd take that in a heartbeat and lure a shooter from someone else, maybe Korver, or Heinrich, as you said.

you had a great post up top, btw. laid it out pretty clearly!
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdh View Post
where on earth can we get a shooting guard?

seems like with some of these trades, we could get a slasher SF and big men, but what quality SG are out there? (assuming jet is gone)
Getting RIP would be huge but I doubt he leaves. Hedo is expected to opt out so I like his game though he is more of a 3, well I expect JHO gone also. Mcants, Felton, Villanueva, Krystic (who has a good season over seas). Janero Pargo i think would be perfect to replace Terry he has had a good year over seas and I believe is a RFA.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin View Post
in reality?
Everyone will stay, and there will be no major changes.

Why? Because, "We still like our team. We were 1 bad call and 2 bad ankles from the WCF." Bank on it.


doubtful. cuban is a ruthless businessman. he knows when enough is enough. he axed nellie (unpopular), axed devin harris (unpopular), etc. sure, he made dumb decisions (damp contract, matt carroll, etc.), but he's not afraid to pull the plug.

i fully expect a major reshuffling. cuban has said as much in interviews. dirk will dictate a lot of it, i think.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:34 PM   #17
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Also Artest.... as I have said before the guy I want the team to go hard after is Gerald Wallace.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:34 PM   #18
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We have to sign and trade Kidd. Letting him walk would be unacceptable for both the MBT and Kidd.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:36 PM   #19
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"We like our team. We just need a few minor tweaks. Maybe a major signing of Tyron Lue again. Maybe we'll add Malik Rose. Then we're set." - Donnie Nelson, July 2009
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdh View Post
i fully expect a major reshuffling. cuban has said as much in interviews.
eh - he always says that.

Quote:
dirk will dictate a lot of it, i think.
lets hope Dirk goes all 'Kobe' on him.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:40 PM   #21
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Thanks for the 5 seasons, you were a steal for antione walker, but we have to move on jet.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:40 PM   #22
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If we could just get CBosh...
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:40 PM   #23
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NO MORE JUMP SHOOTERS!
We need tough, in your face, in the paint players.
We're just to soft!
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:44 PM   #24
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EDIT: Double post.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:44 PM   #25
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"Soft" is such nonsense. Wtf do you think Denver is scoring on? Mostly jumpers. They just have GOOD jump shooters. We have bad jump shooters who bring nothing else to the table.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:45 PM   #26
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what are you guys talking about???
how can you like this team?
Everyone is already and excited for next season. I'm tired of waiting for next season, and the season after that. We have used that excuse for way too long. Are we trying to win or rebuild! What the hell
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
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what are you guys talking about???
how can you like this team?
Everyone is already and excited for next season. I'm tired of waiting for next season, and the season after that. We have used that excuse for way too long. Are we trying to win or rebuild! What the hell
this really has me confused

Everybody wants changes
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:50 PM   #28
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Here my offseason thoughts, im thinking about it the last weeks.

I hope Cuban has a 2 years plan and is willing to spend more 2 years some serious money. In 2011 Dirk and Josh contracts are over and Terry has his last year not fully guaranteed left. That would be the perfect moment to end the Dirk/Cuban era in Dallas and with a clean cap Cuban should be able to sell the Mavs easily and move on to baseball. A rebuild with the 2010 pick unprotected in NJ is useless. Dirk is classy and wont demand a trade before 2010. Hoping for a big 2010 signing with free cap is useles in my opinion.

The main target should be to resign Kidd 2 years and getting 1-2 major deals with players with 2-3 expensive years left (Jefferson, Kaman etc).

Kidd should stay. 2 years deal for around 16mio with a 3rd year teamoption. He played a great season if you take out the Denver series. He is not the problem. You just cant put 2 other non-offensive players beside him on the court and the center should be able to catch easy alleys. But his future has to be QUICK resolved and that means by june.

If Kidd goes (Lakers or Cavs are the only teams, lakers have huge luxtax-issues and Cleveland a questionable beyond 2010 future):
Hinrich for Stack (earlier so Bulls are able to decide pro Gordon resigning)
MLE Sessions/Miller/Bibby/Felton/Jack
Rodriguez in a cheap and risky deal
If nothing goes swallow the Baron/Kaman package for nothing more than Damp+Stack and pray Baron stay healthy. RC can work with brainfarts. Go back to isos and forbid Baron to shoot more than 2 threes a game.

Draft:
Pick with #22 one of the pure PG projects, the draft is full of them. Let him learn from Kidd.


If Kidd stays, add quality with expirings:

Im sure we are stuck with Terry. Teams with that need will go for Gordon this offseason and not for Terry. Howard will have surgery and wont be easy to trade. Stay with Kidd/Terry/Josh/Dirk and add at least one major addition and fill the rest of the roster with MATCHING roleplayer.

Use Damp and Stack+Williams+George+Wright+Barea for 2 trades. Its 2 packages with 12-14 mio expiring contracts. If Stack get traded early his new team can save 5 mio with the buyout, thats huge.

Targets
(Bucks, Pacers have lots of trouble, Suns and Clippers may go back to cheapness)

Shaq (but still hope that just the save nr.2 option)
R. Jefferson (maybe with swallowing Bells contract too) – 2 years left
Kaman (pray Clippers get #3 drafting Thabeet) – 3 years left
J. Richardson – 2 years left
V. Carter – 3 years left
M. Redd – 2 years left
Dunleavy (out beginning next season) – 2 years left
Murphy – 2 years left
Mike Miller (expiring, but with Stack they can save 5 mio)
Crawford (i dont want him, but maybe if we get nothing better Stack will be always enough to get him)
Maggette (same here – Jax would be perfect but should be untouchable in GS)
Haywood (doubt they trade Butler now, they want to see the whole team together healthy, but maybe they try to save on Haywood since they have Etan too)
Chandler – Hornets announced to pay luxury, so i doubbt they dump him again
G. Wallace (but pretty sure Bobcats wont trade for cap release)

Problem:

Houston and Spurs looking for the same. Houston have 21mio expiring with McLady, Spurs around 10-12.



MLE:
Kidd or the possible major trades will deceide what we have or should do with the MLE, so thats an open topic.

Im 99% sure Artest und Ariza will stay in their teams. Artest is happy and sucessful in Houston and they can and will offer much more money. Odom wont sign for just the MLE, same with Marvin Williams. Gordon is a Terry clone, we dont need that.

Get the Birdman for 3 years MLE. Denver is in financial troubles. Mavs get stronger and same time hurt a concurrent.


Cheap pickups (minimum/bi-anual)


Keep Hollins and Singleton for the minimum

Watson
Morrow
Diogu (i love him, Bass potential)
Frye
McCants
Shannon Brown
S. Williams
R. Price
Jamario Moon

Offseason trainingcamp:

Let Wright train threes until he hit the open ones with 38+%
Bring "old" Carroll back. Old Carroll is a benchplayer like we need, a deadly shooter.

Last edited by sefant77; 05-14-2009 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:54 PM   #29
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Everyone will return. They'll sign a veteran for the minimum exception and go to war with the same exact team and bank on Barea, Green, Singleton and Bass becoming better players. They like their team. What should they do? Should look to improve the team and everyone is available but Dirk.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:57 PM   #30
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I think with this kind of lineup we can't be a championship contender. After watching the whole game today, Carmelo had 30 pts. Billups had 28. On our side Dirk got 32, the closest we get is kidd with 19. kidd is not even that consistent when it comes to points. Dirk needs support, and with this team he can't get the support that he needs. A lot of people say we live and die by terry, they do have a point because josh wasn't completely healthy this season and if terry doesn't put up decent numbers then we're doomed. also, damp is a big problem. we need a new center, a decent one also. after our season, I like Dirk and Bass the most. Jho being next. then sometimes barrea and terry. we need some new guys! decent and consistent!
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:58 PM   #31
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I agree with the guy above about Artest. Gotta get Artest. We've been lacking tough defensive guy for a really long time now.

We're lacking a 2nd scorer, a consistent 3 pt shooter and defense.

Whether you do this by means of role players, or by one amazing guy this has to come. Shaq is 37 years old guys; not happening.

Kidd has ONE year left, then its all down hill. We already saw how hes slowing up, and guard is just too quick a position. We won't be able to compete at a high level, we'd be sacrificing too much on defense. The problem is I don't know who we would get to replace him. I'm convinced that we need to take a serious shot at Dwayne Wade. It seems to me he (quick slashing scorer) would act as a perfect compliment to Dirks jump shooting. So i would do this:

C: T Chandler (Acquire in trade for JHo, Dampier, everyone else)
PF: Dirk, Bass
SF: Sign Artest
SG: Wright, Terry
PG: Kidd, JJ (Add Wade in 2010 or Andre Miller in '09)...

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Old 05-14-2009, 12:01 AM   #32
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It absolutely boggles my mind that anybody even remotely thinks it's a good idea to re-sign Kidd.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:06 AM   #33
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lol @ the fabled class of 2010.

This series is yet another in the long line of examples why free agents have ZERO interest in signing here. This is not an attractive place to play.

please spare us your "I'm a mavs homer and this is why this is a great place to play!!!" posts. The rest of the NBA (country/world) doesn't see it like you do.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:10 AM   #34
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If Terry gets traded, then i will never watch a mavericks game ever again.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:14 AM   #35
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Terry clearly is just not consistent enough to be that 2nd option
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:15 AM   #36
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Why in the world do you guys want Kidd back? This absolutely boggles my mind. He was decent this year, but the dude routinely gets torched, can't score, turns the ball over way too much at critical times, and doesn't really do anything special in "crunch time" (isn't this why we were supposed to have him?).

Yes, at times he played good. AT TIMES. However, "at times" isn't going to cut it in the postseason. Even if he plays AS GOOD next year as he was this year, how can that possibly be a reason for optimism? Being AS GOOD next year obviously isn't going to win us a championship, but what are the odds he'll even be as good? The odds are he'll just be one more step slower, etc.

Give me a PG who can get to the basket. I'll take a few less assists per game for a young athlete who can defend and get to the rim (oh wait, we had that).

His numbers are still decent, yes, but anybody watching the games can tell you this guy isn't the guy who's gonna get our team over the top, and as such, the trade for Kidd was most definitely a bust.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:16 AM   #37
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Another idea for a cheap (trade) center: Eddy Curry. Since people want one of the few elite post scorers.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:17 AM   #38
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Terry will get traded most likely, he had a career season at 31, and then wore out in the playoffs. If there is ever any time to trade him, this is it, with his value at his highest.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:18 AM   #39
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oh and if I can suggest a name to look into, how about Darel Morey???? Guy knows how to build a team I think.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twosauce View Post
If Terry gets traded, then i will never watch a mavericks game ever again.
What, are you his brother?
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