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Old 03-17-2008, 02:16 PM   #41
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I brought up the defense, and all I said was he's not ever going to be considered the GREATEST PF ever, because of his defense.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:25 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by WraithXx
the last 3 MVP's have been white and foreign born

our previous #1 non-white seemingly anti-Dirk voice, Charles Barkley, has long since changed his stance on the MVP Dirk and pretty much admitted that his on-tv persona is just that.. an on-tv persona

got anything else?
Nash is just like an American and is a tough gritty Stockton type who people always love...

so your point is that there is not a anti-Dirk bias because he won the MVP when he led a team to 67 win season?

let me make this my question to you, X: you are saying there isn't an overwhelming under-appreciation (almost dislike) of Dirk from the national media?

edited to clarify the question.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:26 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by jthig32
I brought up the defense, and all I said was he's not ever going to be considered the GREATEST PF ever, because of his defense.
I agree.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:31 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by dude1394
Sometimes you just need a place to put dirk is great stuff at.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=7872
Pretty cool and random that he would pick Dirk of all people to talk about... esp since he plays in the east.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:35 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
Nash is just like an American and is a tough gritty Stockton type who people always love...

so your point is that there is not a anti-Dirk bias because he won the MVP when he led a team to 67 win season?

let me make this my question to you, X: you are saying there isn't an overwhelming under-appreciation (almost dislike) of Dirk around the league?
I agree that there is an anti-Dirk bias but not nearly anywhere like it was before.. I myself have seen it, but I don't think it's based on race - that's all I'm saying

I remember the two biggest criticisms on him were that he didn't play defense and that he was soft. Both were probably true. We've seen him grow in both of those areas for 2 or 3 years now

I'll defend Dirk against anyone that has anything bad to say about him on any other front though. But race, to me, shouldn't play a part in it.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:47 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by WraithXx
But race, to me, shouldn't play a part in it.
I agree...but the problem is all these humans.

"soft" and "no defense" are almost catch phrases for "white" in the NBA...just like saying, "Oh he is a find set shooter". I'm not trying to sound like this is something I've spent a ton of time thinking about...but it is only human nature to dislike someone who is better at your game than you are...especially someone who is different than you. It may have more to do with his heritage than his skin color...or maybe its because he is a Maverick....I'll admit that...but there is a reason for the bias against him...and I doubt it has anything to do with how weak his defense used to be. I don't see Mello, Nash, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Antwan Jamison, or Paul Pierce get smashed for their lack of D and they are all stars too.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:48 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by sike
at the risk of sounding off putting and very un-pc....I'd tap the breaks on that one.

people don't like Dirk...there IS a reason other than his game. Maybe its his foreign blood....but there is something.
I honestly don't think it's based off of his foreign blood--atleast from a national media standpoint.

For others (that aren't the national media)...maybe
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:49 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ty
I honestly don't think it's based off of his foreign blood--atleast from a national media standpoint.

For others...maybe
they love Manu, Pau, etc....
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:55 PM   #49
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Grass is green
Sky is blue
Dirk is great
and what else' new?!
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:55 PM   #50
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of course the fact that he is foreign (german even) did and probaly still does make some people look at him more critically than others but i think its more dirk's personailty that reduces his spotlight. He is a team player who plays efficiently and doesn't show off (other than his "aquired" fist-pump and tongue moves which sometimes seem a bit fake).
The media loves guys who put on a show, be it diva wade, ball-hog kobe, show us your mean face shaq or "king" James. It's about creating a brand and dirk has never done that - he's still that shy guy from germany. His mvp title has helped some to get the media off his back (and onto avery's) but we'll have to see what he will be remembered for in 5-6 years when he's done.

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Old 03-17-2008, 02:58 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by sike
I agree...but the problem is all these humans.

"soft" and "no defense" are almost catch phrases for "white" in the NBA...just like saying, "Oh he is a find set shooter". I'm not trying to sound like this is something I've spent a ton of time thinking about...but it is only human nature to dislike someone who is better at your game than you are...especially someone who is different than you. It may have more to do with his heritage than his skin color...or maybe its because he is a Maverick....I'll admit that...but there is a reason for the bias against him...and I doubt it has anything to do with how weak his defense used to be. I don't see Mello, Nash, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Antwan Jamison, or Paul Pierce get smashed for their lack of D and they are all stars too.
Who do you think has a bias against Dirk? It's not the players. Most everything I hear from the players with regards to Dirk is complimentary.

Over the past three years the media has voted him first team All-NBA twice and MVP. The coaches put in the All-Star game every year in addition to heaping praise on him.

If there's a bias against Dirk it's coming from the casual fan. The fan who has never voted him an All-Star starter. The majority of those fans are white.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:58 PM   #52
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I don't think it's that he's white, or German, or a Maverick, that denies him the respect/spotlight

Dirk just looks too goofy doing what he does. He's a big dorky looking goof who runs funny and makes awkward moves to the basket and ugly turn around fade aways. The thing is, is that he's really really good at it.

But in this SportsCenter sports culture of ours, people want to see dunks, or kobe doing a crazy reverse layup, or whatever. It looks "smooth" and it looks "cool" and it's just generally a sexier presentation than the big German.

Whatever. I'll take a nice 10 of 14 shooting night with 28 points, in 30 minutes any day of the week compared to that 11 of 33 performance by a certain near-convict yesterday.

viva la Dirk.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:02 PM   #53
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Well I haven't gotten through all of this thread (but I will) but I'm already suprised at 51 replies...Hmm....some pent up dirkster love going on I see.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:06 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by dude1394
Well I haven't gotten through all of this thread (but I will) but I'm already suprised at 51 replies...Hmm....some pent up dirkster love going on I see.
I don't think it's pent up. You don't have to look far to find Dirk love on a Mavs board. He's the franchise.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Flacolaco
I don't think it's that he's white, or German, or a Maverick, that denies him the respect/spotlight

Dirk just looks too goofy doing what he does. He's a big dorky looking goof who runs funny and makes awkward moves to the basket and ugly turn around fade aways. The thing is, is that he's really really good at it.

But in this SportsCenter sports culture of ours, people want to see dunks, or kobe doing a crazy reverse layup, or whatever. It looks "smooth" and it looks "cool" and it's just generally a sexier presentation than the big German.

Whatever. I'll take a nice 10 of 14 shooting night with 28 points, in 30 minutes any day of the week compared to that 11 of 33 performance by a certain near-convict yesterday.

viva la Dirk.
exactly...a big goofy white guy.

we are in total agreeance.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:20 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by dirno2000
Who do you think has a bias against Dirk?
I believe I've already answered this question....the general media holds Dirk contemptibly in high praise..as in...they HAVE to admit his greatness, but they never miss the opportunity to take a shot at his weaknesses either. A lot of back handed compliments. Dallas as been too good over the past 3 years and Dirk has been too special not to receive many accolades...but how many of the national media would have Dirk as a top 5 player in the league? They are forced to admit him as an all star and all NBA guy...but how many really appreciate Dirk as being as good as any guy not named Kobe or Lebron?

I'm not willing to go dig up all the articles that you and I (and the members of this board) have read where Dirk is openly been ridiculed and talked negatively about to prove my point...but that is just it...I don't need to. Because, drino, you know there is a feeling of less respect for Dirk among national media types than many other all stars...heck, even goofy Manu gets crazy love from those idiots and he is only a "very good" player.

I think flaco hit a lot of my feelings on the head in his recent comment. For some reason...it is easy for people not to appreciate Dirk's game...and that is disappointing.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:23 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by sike
exactly...a big goofy white guy.

we are in total agreeance.
lol...managed to slip "white" in there...
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by ty
lol...managed to slip "white" in there...
Please...we all know "goofy" is a word white people own.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:29 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by sike
Please...we all know "goofy" is a word white people own.
Dude, Will Ferrell is real goofy. But, am I the only one that saw him own Bill Walton at horse?

If Dirk ever had a movie based off of him, it'd definitely be a comedy starring Ferrell.
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"I still go through it in my head," Nowitzki said. "One of my last nights in Germany [last month], I was trying to go to sleep, but I couldn't. I was thinking about the free throw I missed [late in Game 3], about different situations that happened in that series. I'll never forget it. It's going to stay in my mind until we win it all."
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:29 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by dirno2000
Who do you think has a bias against Dirk? It's not the players. Most everything I hear from the players with regards to Dirk is complimentary.

Over the past three years the media has voted him first team All-NBA twice and MVP. The coaches put in the All-Star game every year in addition to heaping praise on him.

If there's a bias against Dirk it's coming from the casual fan. The fan who has never voted him an All-Star starter. The majority of those fans are white.
I don't think the color of the fan matters. Casual NBA fans think of Dirk as soft and overrated because:

(in order of importance)

A. He looks goofy a lot
B. He's Euro.
C. He's white.

They're all part of the package, in my opinion.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:30 PM   #61
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Please...we all know "goofy" is a word white people own.

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Old 03-17-2008, 03:30 PM   #62
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Are you saying it's Dirk's whiteness that prevents him from slashing from outside to dunk on fools bigger than him several times a game?

Because that's what gets Kobe, Wade, LeBron theirs.... I don't think it's racially motivated. His skillset and personality are less marketable (in the US). The day it sells sneakers and makes dope commericals to drill 16 foot fadeaways and get the and1, Dirk will be bigger than anybody.

It is what it is.

And I <3 Dirk.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:33 PM   #63
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"I still go through it in my head," Nowitzki said. "One of my last nights in Germany [last month], I was trying to go to sleep, but I couldn't. I was thinking about the free throw I missed [late in Game 3], about different situations that happened in that series. I'll never forget it. It's going to stay in my mind until we win it all."
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:33 PM   #64
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working off that list, thiggy....Nash NEVER looks "goofy"...he is the king of ball control and very smooth almost all the time...so I think he basically gets a "pass" from everyone.

Dirk just don't get that "pass"...there are too many (though admittedly few in comparison to his greatness) moments where he looks like a total nerd out there. All in all...Dirk just aint "cool" by today's standards.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:34 PM   #65
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yeah...but that was "cool" in the early 90s.

which just proves how uncool the early 90s really were.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:37 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by rabbitproof
Are you saying it's Dirk's whiteness that prevents him from slashing from outside to dunk on fools bigger than him several times a game?

Because that's what gets Kobe, Wade, LeBron theirs.... I don't think it's racially motivated. His skillset and personality are less marketable (in the US). The day it sells sneakers and makes dope commericals to drill 16 foot fadeaways and get the and1, Dirk will be bigger than anybody.

It is what it is.

And I <3 Dirk.
for the record, Dirk currently has one of the "dopest" (sp?) commercials on TV today...
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:38 PM   #67
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Dirk IS goofy. There was a game recently where he collided with Damp in the last 10 seconds or so and just crumbled to the ground.... I don't think I've seen that to anybody else (7 footer runs into teammate in final seconds and eats total shit while teammate looks around like "huh"?).
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:39 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by sike
for the record, Dirk currently has one of the "dopest" (sp?) commercials on TV today...
His amazing commercial is pretty cool, but it is more from an emotional angle than a flashy one and you can only make so many emotionally bonding spots. For every one of those, there are 25 spots Nike is cranking on for LeBron.

EDIT:

Personally, I think hardcore basketball fans know Dirk is great as well as those in the know (players, coaches, etc.) know. The rest is marketing and dollar signs and if Dirk doesn't care, why should we?
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:39 PM   #69
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dirk is pretty goofy, but that's part of the reason why we love him.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:40 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by rabbitproof
Dirk IS goofy. There was a game recently where he collided with Damp in the last 10 seconds or so and just crumbled to the ground.... I don't think I've seen that to anybody else (7 footer runs into teammate in final seconds and eats total shit while teammate looks around like "huh"?).
goofy? yes.

top 5 player in the league? yes.

Drastically under appreciated? yes.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:41 PM   #71
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dirk is pretty goofy, but that's part of the reason why we love him.
and why many "don't"...
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:41 PM   #72
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In order to start the reverse this trend of goofiness that Dirk receives...he needs a freakin nickname that sticks.

Dirk the Great?
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:43 PM   #73
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I think being goofy is cool. What can you do though? Power of the masses.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:43 PM   #74
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I don't think the color of the fan matters. Casual NBA fans think of Dirk as soft and overrated because:

(in order of importance)

A. He looks goofy a lot
B. He's Euro.
C. He's white.

They're all part of the package, in my opinion.
It generally doesn't matter.

I only brought it up because of sike's comment that it's natural to dislike someone that's better at your game than you are. The implication being that any disrespect of Dirk is fueled by jealousy.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:46 PM   #75
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It generally doesn't matter.

I only brought it up because of sike's comment that it's natural to dislike someone that's better at your game than you are. The implication being that any disrespect of Dirk is fueled by jealousy.
That I agree with. I think in general Dirk's game is highly respected among players. I mean we've had two Hall of Fame players push to play with Dirk just this season (Kobe and Kidd)

You do have the random dummy like Bobby Jackson come out and say he's soft at time.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:46 PM   #76
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How do i post a pic, I got a cool one to share
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:50 PM   #77
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How do i post a pic, I got a cool one to share
This thread should answer your question...

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Old 03-17-2008, 03:58 PM   #78
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I didn't see any icon, but I got it to work.

Thnx
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:58 PM   #79
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dirk is so great ...he even made avery look good for a while

avery - dirk = nothing
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Old 03-17-2008, 04:01 PM   #80
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I agree...but the problem is all these humans.

"soft" and "no defense" are almost catch phrases for "white" in the NBA...just like saying, "Oh he is a find set shooter". I'm not trying to sound like this is something I've spent a ton of time thinking about...but it is only human nature to dislike someone who is better at your game than you are...especially someone who is different than you. It may have more to do with his heritage than his skin color...or maybe its because he is a Maverick....I'll admit that...but there is a reason for the bias against him...and I doubt it has anything to do with how weak his defense used to be. I don't see Mello, Nash, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Antwan Jamison, or Paul Pierce get smashed for their lack of D and they are all stars too.
Spot on...I don't recall those guys being called soft black boys for example. I dont' think dirk has enough gangsta in him. It probably embarrasses the brotha's to have the soft white european kicking their assess on the court so much.
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