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Old 01-01-2019, 09:46 PM   #41
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The only way im okay with it is if Powell included...that just kills 16 mio cap space
Agree with this. Wes & Powell for Porter would be a win for us.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:00 AM   #42
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Except that Smith just hit the game winner against the toughest defense in the league and played great defense on Paul George to ice it.

I don't buy that Smith isn't part of "win now" at all. Pretty sure no player on the team wants to win as much as him.

What I do concede is that Smith is the only one not named Luka on the team with any real trade value. See, the bigger issue is the rest of the team...not Smith. But I still don't know what trade is out there that markedly improves the team because you need to fill other holes. And Smith provides something for the team that nobody else on the roster really has.

So it's really more of a roster dilemma than a Smith jr one.
Agree with everything stated here. This "win now" crap is not going to get us anywhere and we are minimum 3 years away. We need to develop the guys we have and build around a core.

I personally really like what DSJ brings. He's able to create for both himself and others on offense while also taken on defensive challenges. PG was on fire the other night and DSJ managed to slow him down just enough for us to get a win.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:11 AM   #43
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Default Mavs interested in Otto Porter?

Why? They already have DFS for that position. So t trade Mwes or DSJ just for the sake of trading someone. Why cant the Mavs be patient?
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:37 AM   #44
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Otto Porter's contract over the next 3 years:

Year 1: $26,011,913
Year 2: $27,250,575
Year 3: $28,489,238 (player option)
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Old 01-02-2019, 12:00 PM   #45
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Why? They already have DFS for that position. So t trade Mwes or DSJ just for the sake of trading someone. Why cant the Mavs be patient?
DFS should not be an argument point for not going after Otto Porter Jr. I love DFS but I don't see him as more than a role player. Would be happy to be wrong.

I think Otto a great fit for this team, essentially a Doug McDermott with an extreme advantage on the defensive end.

It really depends on what we can send Washington's way. I think they'd like to free up cap space and hit a little restart.
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Old 01-02-2019, 12:02 PM   #46
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Otto Porter's contract over the next 3 years:

Year 1: $26,011,913
Year 2: $27,250,575
Year 3: $28,489,238 (player option)
Oh yikes. I could have sworn it was closer to a 4/80 contract. That makes it a harder deal to swallow.
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Old 01-02-2019, 12:42 PM   #47
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I like him as a player and think he'd be a good fit but not enough to justify that contract tbh
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:13 PM   #48
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Barnes and Porter would be nice for spacing and I'm intrigued. But the 2 of them should combine for 30-35m a year. Not be paid 25-28m each. That's a killer imo. If the trade is just Powell and Wes for Porter then I'm out. I can't justify paying Barnes and Porter 50m a year and get maybe 35 points a game from them combined. That's just not going to come close to cutting it in the West. Unless someone is telling me Otto will be an all star here that's way too much money.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:27 PM   #49
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IF we decide to trade Smith....or there could also be a few different versions of this trade without Smith.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradec..._trade/7151954

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradec..._trade/7151962

I know there is a lot here but I think these guys would fit well around Luka.

Luka / JJ
DSJ / Lee
Barnes / DFS
Kanter / Kleber
DJ / Dirk

Getting rid of Wes opens things up for DFS and I think Lee would be better fit than Wes.

Getting rid of Powell...well is getting rid of Powell and we get back Kanter who isn't playing as much but is a DD machine. We could see how he fits with the team and either let him walk or resign him next year because I think is offensives skills are a good ft with Luka.

There might be some concerns on defense, but I think we would manage.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:56 PM   #50
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The 1st trade is an absolute 10000000% no from me. I'd go into a depression if we made that trade. And the 2nd one is 100% a no from me. We need a Bjelica type 4 imo not a Kanter type 5. And at best Wes and Lee is a wash, to me Wes is better but I'm not gonna bang the drum loudly that he's better. But I'd rather have the expiring Wes than Lee for 12m next year. IMO we can do a lot better than those trades.
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:37 PM   #51
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Kanter is an empty stats kind of big. Every time I see his name (and ego) emerge, I always think back to the Devin Booker tweet and laugh. Guys and teams attack him with the pick and roll and iso constantly. His defense does not make up for slightly above average rebounding and offense.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:06 PM   #52
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I haven't seen a trade idea that I like yet. Porter doesn't give us another creator and Barnes is all I care to see in the S5 who doesn't. I would be intrigued about the length defensively, but not the contracts.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:31 PM   #53
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I can promise you that the FO isn't going to make lateral "fit" moves. Fit isn't going to win you championships. You need superstars for that. So, if no superstar is available for Smith, then he won't be traded.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:33 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart View Post
I can promise you that the FO isn't going to make lateral "fit" moves. Fit isn't going to win you championships. You need superstars for that. So, if no superstar is available for Smith, then he won't be traded.
Yea, people need to forget about a Smith trade.
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Old 01-02-2019, 04:24 PM   #55
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I'd include Barnes in a Porter trade. Wes/Barnes works for Porter/Morris. That negates the contract situation pretty heavily as Morris's contract expires this summer. That's a pretty fair trade for both sides.
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Old 01-02-2019, 04:53 PM   #56
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Im sure they want Beal along with Porter, and Washington is saying no way.
Would have to be a 3 way with Phoenix getting DSJ or something.

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Old 01-02-2019, 05:22 PM   #57
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I’d rather keep DSJ on his rookie deal and hope for FA. Players are taking notice on Luka. I think he has more success getting players here than Dirk did.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:19 PM   #58
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Im sure they want Beal along with Porter, and Washington is saying no way.
Would have to be a 3 way with Phoenix getting DSJ or something.
Or Orlando....I think that would be a great fit for them and Dennis if we could work something out. But yeah, I'd only give up Dennis for Beal, not Porter.

Orlando pick and Wes would not get it done for Beal though. We and/or Orlando would have to give up something else to make it work.

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Old 01-03-2019, 02:20 AM   #59
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I think the Wizards are preparing to sell really low on Porter to try to be free agency players this summer. Something like Wes/Powell/fake 1st that dissolves into one or two 2nds is probably about the best they're going to do unless the trade market really heats up.

Other suitors/deals I think are plausible (assume some kind of protected first unless mentioned otherwise):
  • Milwaukee: Could offer George Hill (largely non-guaranteed salary of $3M next year) plus a pick
  • New Orleans: Can't offer the same immediate summer 2019 salary relief, but could offer something like Mirotic/Solomon Hill, plus some kind of 1st that would definitely be more valuable than any pick Milwaukee can include
  • Memphis: I think they could similarly show some desperation in an attempt to make the playoffs; however, it's tough to find a trade for OPJ that doesn't include Parsons. Probably not worth it for the Wizards, and both teams would need a third team (Hawks?) to get involved and take on Parsons.
  • Indiana: I love the Pacers as a potential deadline buyer. They have about $60M in expiring contracts. They could do something like Tyreke/Darren Collison for OPJ, or could make the deal better by including McDermott (a useful and affordable shooter, the steady kind of player the Wizards should be looking at during what will ostensibly be a full rebuild) for Satoransky if they feel they need a little extra guard depth. Indy will probably be in the mix for just about every quality player on the trade block that they're interested in next month at the deadline.
  • Utah: Favors/Sefolosha works, and I think you're better off with a player like OPJ playing the 4 next to Gobert. Having a reliable shooter in the second units would unlock Ingles as a playmaker there. Favors is totally non-guaranteed for 2019, but he could also start at center for the Wizards if they choose to try to stay competitive.
  • Philly: Uh.... I kind of love this dumb idea: Wilson Chandler and Markelle Fultz for OPJ. I'm an agent of chaos.

I'm sure some random team will come out of the woodwork and trade for Porter sometime in the next few weeks, which means I just wasted half an hour on the trade machine, but this is always a fun time of the year anyway.
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:07 AM   #60
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Haha... unloading both Wesley and Dwight for Porter would be the most hilarious (aka no way in hell) thing ever. I'm down!
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:01 AM   #61
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I think the Wizards are preparing to sell really low on Porter to try to be free agency players this summer. Something like Wes/Powell/fake 1st that dissolves into one or two 2nds is probably about the best they're going to do unless the trade market really heats up.
We can't package any firsts until Atlanta locks up our 2019 pick.
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:45 AM   #62
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I'm not understanding the love for Otto Porter all of a sudden. He's going to be making $27 next year and $28.5 after that while being at best an above average players. His numbers are down this year but looking at last year, his 5th year in the league:
31.6 mpg
14.7 ppg
50.3 fg%
44.1 3p%
6.4 rbg

Is he some kind of defensive beast? I'm not getting why he gets a max deal and why everyone on here is willing to take on that contract. Wes either goes completely off the books or takes a significant paycut and probably role change next year. DP has one more year on his contract which is overpaid but $10 isn't as high as it used to be (think more like $7).

I just don't see making Porter our big splash in the off season because he's likely to suck up all of our cap space if we decide to keep DJ also.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:03 PM   #63
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LOL, Bill Simmons thinks Porter-for-Barnes is a fair deal.
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:03 PM   #64
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I'm not understanding the love for Otto Porter all of a sudden. He's going to be making $27 next year and $28.5 after that while being at best an above average players. His numbers are down this year but looking at last year, his 5th year in the league:
31.6 mpg
14.7 ppg
50.3 fg%
44.1 3p%
6.4 rbg

Is he some kind of defensive beast? I'm not getting why he gets a max deal and why everyone on here is willing to take on that contract. Wes either goes completely off the books or takes a significant paycut and probably role change next year. DP has one more year on his contract which is overpaid but $10 isn't as high as it used to be (think more like $7).

I just don't see making Porter our big splash in the off season because he's likely to suck up all of our cap space if we decide to keep DJ also.
You have to look at the advanced numbers, thats where he really really shines. As example, last season he was #7 in the entire league in true shooting (including four center in front of him)

His advanced numbers show that he is a better rebounder, better passer, more efficient scorer etc than Barnes.

Porter averages 2.0 APG, Barnes 1.5. But if you look that he has a 16% usage rate and Barnes a 25%, then his 2 APG look much better.

Yes, he is like 8-10 million a year overpaid, but if we dump overpaid Powell in the deal, i can live with it. That would kind of reduce Porters salary in 19-20 by 10 million, if you want to count it that way.

And who knows, maybe in 2020 he is opting out of his last year to secure a new longterm deal. Would also make more sense for him to hit the FA markt again at age 31 and not 32. Same argument for Barnes, i expect him to opt out. Specially if he hits the three so good this season. And because he has to fear that he gets moved down to 3rd or 4th option next year....

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Old 01-03-2019, 01:28 PM   #65
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LOL, Bill Simmons thinks Porter-for-Barnes is a fair deal.
Unfair on which side?
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:59 PM   #66
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Trade seems super fair to me.

Porter is the better defender and rebounder-- two things we need desperately. Other than that, talent level is about on par.

Both guys earn about 25mill a year.

Barnes has this year and a player option for next year which he'd be dumb to turn down.
Porter has basically the same contract but with one more year (player option after NEXT season)

Wiz may be able to talk Barnes into opting out so he would be expiring or maybe he'd hate DC as much as the rest of America does. Wiz need to blow it up anyway and saving 25mill is a good start. Otherwise they save a year of Porter. Mavs get a player that better fits what we're in need of (defense, rebounding, while still spreading the floor). Plus Barnes has been red hot from three and is currently shooting 42% from three (43.4% in December and 44.1% in November)
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:32 PM   #67
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If HB leaves for OP, then you are going to be asking a lot more offense from Luka and DSJ. Luka may be ready for it, my worry would possibly be his conditioning and we just wear him out by the end of the season. DSJ may also be ready for it if he's truly healthy and based on what we've seen the last few games. That's best case scenario.

Worst case? DSJ regresses with added pressure to score and create more? Luka gets injured from being worn out and taking extra cheap shots without the refs calling fouls?

Tough call. HB is definitely going to be 3rd option possibly as early as next year anyway. Is he OK with that?

I guess this is why I'm working my day job and MBT make the big bucks.
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:09 PM   #68
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If HB leaves for OP, then you are going to be asking a lot more offense from Luka and DSJ. Luka may be ready for it, my worry would possibly be his conditioning and we just wear him out by the end of the season. DSJ may also be ready for it if he's truly healthy and based on what we've seen the last few games. That's best case scenario.

Worst case? DSJ regresses with added pressure to score and create more? Luka gets injured from being worn out and taking extra cheap shots without the refs calling fouls?

Tough call. HB is definitely going to be 3rd option possibly as early as next year anyway. Is he OK with that?

I guess this is why I'm working my day job and MBT make the big bucks.
I actually think pressuring DSJ to score more will be extremely beneficial for him. Too many guys need the ball right now, and I think that hurts his offensive production.

It's coming to a point where we need Luka and DSJ to win us games versus relying on Barnes or good god Matthews. That's why I hope we can move both of them before the deadline although I have less hope about Barnes.
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:19 PM   #69
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Unfair on which side?
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Trade seems super fair to me.

Porter is the better defender and rebounder-- two things we need desperately. Other than that, talent level is about on par.

Both guys earn about 25mill a year.

Barnes has this year and a player option for next year which he'd be dumb to turn down.
Porter has basically the same contract but with one more year (player option after NEXT season)

Barnes: 18.5 PPG / 4.2 RPG / 42.1% 3P
Porter Jr: 11.6 PPG / 5.5 RPG / 36.7% 3P

Porter Jr is a better overall defender than Barnes, but Harrison is the stronger defender more capable of guarding PFs, whereas Porter Jr is a guy you mostly want to stick to SFs... Problem is, SF happens to be what Dallas Mavericks Franchise Player Luka Doncic guards best as well. Not to mention that Barnes is a guy who can step up to be your #1 scorer, whereas Porter Jr is more of a Wes upgrade. When you factor in Harrison's scoring upside with his overall defensive fit next to Luka, PLUS the fact that he has one less overpriced year on his contract, I'd rather just ride HB until he expires (or the long shot that he opts out this summer).

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about trading Harrison for the right piece, but I don't really see Porter as that piece. Seems too lateral, even before considering price/years. Like, maybe it works if you can somehow trade Wes+ for a steady scorer at the PF position, but Barnes-for-Porter Jr only works as a follow-up trade. I certainly wouldn't start there, especially not when you consider the FAs available over the next 2 years. I think a lot of guys will gladly take that cap space to play next to Doncic.

But if we're talking about Wes as the centerpiece in a Porter Jr trade? Absolutely.
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:24 PM   #70
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Barnes can’t defend PFs. He can't even guard SFs

Barnes is our second worst rebounder (second only to Dirk) and our second worst defensive player (again only Dirk is worse).

We got our star in Doncic. Now we gotta build around him. Having another ISO guy who can't defend and can't pass out of the ISO taking possessions away from Doncic seems like a terrible idea.

Give me a guy who can play well WITH Doncic any day.
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:48 PM   #71
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My point is, why trade Overpaid Player #1 for Overpaid Player #2 (+ a year) when you can let that shit expire and use your Doncic Lure to bring in a player who SHOULD be earning what Barnes/Porter are raking in, ya dig?
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:52 PM   #72
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My point is, why trade Overpaid Player #1 for Overpaid Player #2 (+ a year) when you can let that shit expire and use your Doncic Lure to bring in a player who SHOULD be earning what Barnes/Porter are raking in, ya dig?
DONUT 1:
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:01 PM   #73
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DONUT 1:
I actually think now is a better time for *Plan Powder than any time in the past. A 33-37 year old Dirk averaging around the same PPG as a 19 year old Luka is apples and oranges.

Plus, everyone loves Doncic.








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Old 01-03-2019, 10:28 PM   #74
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I actually think now is a better time for *Plan Powder than any time in the past. A 33-37 year old Dirk averaging around the same PPG as a 19 year old Luka is apples and oranges.

Plus, everyone loves Doncic.








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What free agent do you think would be better?

Also, if Barnes opts in, he doesn't impact our cap this year. Then we have 50 mill and Barnes, Powell, Doncic, Smith, and Brunson on the roster.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:01 AM   #75
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I can't get behind comparing their respective numbers right now. OPJ's usage in Washington is much lower for one, and two, I think he would thrive in a role next to guys that would distribute the ball to him more. Wall is the main culprit as I'd love to see what Beal could do with Doncic, but that ain't happening.

Instead, think of OPJ in a larger Doug McDermott role. I have no doubt his 3P% would come back and his game would fit like a glove here.

That contract is the biggest detractor, and one I'd leave up to the Mavs FO to decide on. Tough call for sure as I can see the upgrade.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:54 AM   #76
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Instead, think of OPJ in a larger Doug McDermott role. I have no doubt his 3P% would come back and his game would fit like a glove here.
Max contract this year and 2 more for a better Doug McDermott? That's a horrible selling point. If he was even making close to Wes money, then it's much closer at least. But you are talking about giving up free agency for the next two years if we get him and keep DJ. Is this a championship contending team in 2-4 years?

DJ
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OPJ
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:58 AM   #77
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If we were to trade for Porter Jr.

Next year without a trade:
???/Powell (P.O.)/ ???
Barnes (P.O.)/???/???
???/???/???
Doncic/???/???
Smith/Brunson/???

51 million in contracts (about 58 million to work with) and five guys on the roster. If Barnes opts out (which he'd be dumb to do but may want a longer contract), then we'd have 83.1mill to offer, but only four contributing roster spots.

Next year if we traded Barnes for Porter:
???/Powell (P.O.)/ ???
Porter/???/???
???/???/???
Doncic/???/???
Smith/Brunson/???

53.2 million in contracts (about 55.8 million to work with) and five guys on the roster.

So if Barnes opts in, there's only about a 2.2 mill loss in cap next year.
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:01 PM   #78
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You can overpay to keep the unit together to make a run. You can't overpay to bring the pieces in because it limits what you can add because of cap rules.

OPJ is not worth Jokic and Greek freak money. He's the 17th highest paid player this year and 22nd highest next year. Is he going to have top 20 impact on this team? Not even close. If he was here we'd talk about him the same way we do Barnes and Wes, as nice players but overpaid for what they bring.
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:14 PM   #79
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You can overpay to keep the unit together to make a run. You can't overpay to bring the pieces in because it limits what you can add because of cap rules.

OPJ is not worth Jokic and Greek freak money. He's the 17th highest paid player this year and 22nd highest next year. Is he going to have top 20 impact on this team? Not even close. If he was here we'd talk about him the same way we do Barnes and Wes, as nice players but overpaid for what they bring.
And yet Porter earns the same as Barnes. Do you think Barnes produces at the Jokis/Atetomoumpo level? That's who we'd be trading to get Porter. Obviously the money is inflated, but both guys are overpaid.

People are pretending that Barnes is going to opt out of his 25mill this summer like it's a sure deal, but I'd wager that he opts in, meaning we're paying Barnes roughly a quarter of our cap next year. Porter is just one more year of that and only costs us 2.2mill in cap this summer. For a 3/D guy who can actually rebound, that is essential-- even more so if Jordan leaves this summer. People forget how terrible we were rebounding with Barnes and no Jordan. That's not even to mention Barnes' defense, which was terrible. Right now only Dirk is a worse defensive forward.

If we want to roll with Doncic as our star, we have to consider a complementary supporting cast of guys who can defend and rebound. Barnes can't do either while Barnes' biggest skillset is in ISOs with a poor ability to pass out of it. He's developing more into a stationary 3pt shooter, which is better for Doncic, but still-- he's a guy who can hit the three but can't defend or rebound. That's not the best piece to put next to Doncic.
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:43 PM   #80
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Screw Barnes AND Porter -- they're both overpaid for what they produce. So it's not Barnes vs. Porter, it's Barnes/Porter vs anyone else in the league you can give that money to... I'll take Barnes since one year less on his contract makes him the objectively better option. The sooner we move on from surrounding Doncic with overpriced guys who don't fit his game, the better.
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