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Old 10-27-2020, 09:37 AM   #241
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Having said all of the above, the latest Ringer mock has Nesmith falling to 18, which is pretty damn interesting. He COULD play a little in year 1, I think, even for a good team.
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:34 AM   #242
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I think our fundamental difference is thinking a rookie at 18 can't come in and play next season. I mean, Justin Jackson had a reasonably prominent role as an end of bench guy. He only needs to beat him and/or Wright for minutes which really shouldn't be that difficult if they are any good. And you move up the ladder from there.

I just think the divide between Luka/KP to the rest of the team is massive. Why else did Trey Burke look so great? Is he that good or is our B squad just unreliable?
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:40 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by KillerLeft View Post
Having said all of the above, the latest Ringer mock has Nesmith falling to 18, which is pretty damn interesting. He COULD play a little in year 1, I think, even for a good team.
Also interesting they have Bey at 16 and Bane at 20. Bane is going to keep climbing due to his skill level and ready to play age.
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Old 10-27-2020, 10:57 AM   #244
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I think it's underestimating a lot to think that Bane or Bey wouldn't get significant minutes year 1. Especially Bane, he could potentially start at SG sooner than later. With the season starting back so soon, more teams might play further down the bench than normal.
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Old 10-27-2020, 12:13 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by mac222b View Post
No way we’d move DFS in a deal for Cov, as others said above. That contract is truly one of the best in the league. And he’s still improving, albeit as a guy who is very nearly at his ceiling. He hit enough clutch 3s this season that it didn’t seem to be flukey. We need more athletes his size on this team. If they’ll take Brunson and #18 and Delon for matching Covington that’d be worth doing. Covington has had injury concerns of his own though.
Who ever suggested that needs to apologize to DFS

Dude is a legit piece for this franchise and why would you trade him for Covington when your better off having two wings like that on your roster especially out west.

Covington can't defend Leonard and George both at the same time. He can't defend Brown and Tatum both at the same time

You get my point....

Mavs should be looking for a 2nd wing to pair with DFS not replace him. How quickly we forget those moments we were stuck with THJ or Curry defending those Clippers wings in the playoffs.
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:28 PM   #246
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I'm old enough to remember Josh Howard (#29) and Marquis Daniels (undrafted) come in and play lights out on a team that was absolutely stacked with all-star talent. I firmly believe anyone we draft at #18 will probably play meaningful minutes.
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:34 PM   #247
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I'm old enough to remember Josh Howard (#29) and Marquis Daniels (undrafted) come in and play lights out on a team that was absolutely stacked with all-star talent. I firmly believe anyone we draft at #18 will probably play meaningful minutes.
I'm old enough for that, too. Great draft and even better coaching by Nellie to get what he got out of Daniels. Brunson was a recent good pick, too.

Most of the players they've chosen outside of the lottery have been massive disappointments, however, and every one of those players had scads of fans who thought they'd be the sleeper of the draft.

I repeat: if the Mavs plan for next year DEPENDS on a rookie drafted at #18 contributing to winning basketball, they're insane. If the chips fall in a such a way that they draft someone, great, and if he CAN contribute right away, even better.
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:47 PM   #248
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I'm old enough for that, too. Great draft and even better coaching by Nellie to get what he got out of Daniels. Brunson was a recent good pick, too.

Most of the players they've chosen outside of the lottery have been massive disappointments, however, and every one of those players had scads of fans who thought they'd be the sleeper of the draft.

I repeat: if the Mavs plan for next year DEPENDS on a rookie drafted at #18 contributing to winning basketball, they're insane. If the chips fall in a such a way that they draft someone, great, and if he CAN contribute right away, even better.
Why is that insane? I basically just mapped it out for you. If I told you before the bubble that Trey Burke was going to start in the playoffs, then you would have also called me insane.

I mean, my god, DFS, Maxi, and Seth are undrafted players. THJ was the 24th pick in is his draft. The idea that a guy at 18 can come in a make an impact isn't anywhere near ridiculous. Our entire roster is made up of lower tiered talent.
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:47 PM   #249
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I repeat: if the Mavs plan for next year DEPENDS on a rookie drafted at #18 contributing to winning basketball, they're insane. If the chips fall in a such a way that they draft someone, great, and if he CAN contribute right away, even better.
I hear you. I guess it just depends on what you mean by "plan" for next year. I don't think anyone here really harbors the delusion that we'll be contenders next year. I think the "plan" for this year is just to continue developing the guys we have and hopefully improve on the margins. The real plan is to make a big swing next summer.
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Old 10-27-2020, 02:34 PM   #250
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The idea that a guy at 18 can come in a make an impact isn't anywhere near ridiculous. Our entire roster is made up of lower tiered talent.
Of course it's possible #18 can contribute, but that's not as likely as finding someone who has already proven they can contribute by actually playing in an NBA rotation.

Yes, the current players you mentioned are lower picks or undrafted, and all of them are contributing these days, but it took a lot of time and patience to get them there. Saying "just trade those guys, we'll replace them with #18 and #31" isn't a viable plan. They just did that part with DFS, Kleber, etc. Now, they're wanting to take the next step.

Again DEPENDING on #18 to contribute to WINNING basketball in the NBA - in other words, putting yourself in a position where you need #18 to contribute in order to make the playoffs - is not a smart way of approaching this season. If the Mavs are ok with handling the rest of their business in a way that doesn't require them to let go of the pick, great. If the player they draft there contributes right away, even better. Assets are good. Only a very, very bad team is so desperate as to REQUIRE #18 to be a rotation player in order to have a successful season.

The bottom line is that when it comes to role players, playoff teams are likely to value established players more than rookies (not that they don't value rookies at all) and bad teams looking to build are more likely to value draft capital. They have more developmental time to spend, and the cost control is key to creating a new team.

I'm not saying that the Mavs definitely won't draft someone, or that there are no possible targets there who could conceivably log some minutes for them. I'm sure they have their eyes on some. I'm saying that they'd prefer to use the pick to add someone who is MORE ready to help right away, preferably someone with playoff experience. I think they'd much rather pay #18 this year than Curry, Kleber, whatever.

It might work out where they make NO trades and only draft players! I think they're stupid if they're not considering all angles. My guess is still that they'll make as big of a splash possible with #18 and/or Wright, and that the incoming player will be on the last year of his contract.

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Old 10-27-2020, 02:36 PM   #251
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I hear you. I guess it just depends on what you mean by "plan" for next year. I don't think anyone here really harbors the delusion that we'll be contenders next year. I think the "plan" for this year is just to continue developing the guys we have and hopefully improve on the margins. The real plan is to make a big swing next summer.
Totally. I think summer of 2021 has been the plan for quite a while now. And I agree, they're not contenders this season. But, I think they're ecstatic to have made the playoffs earlier than anticipated, and I think they'll fight like hell to get out of the first round (within reason - don't expect salary past this year). That works WITH the 2021 plan.
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:22 PM   #252
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One problem the Mavs definitely have is too many line cooks and not enough chefs. They should be exploring every opportunity that involves moving someone on the roster not named Luka or KP. There's a long list of high-paid veterans with expiring deals who might be on the move. A 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 deal for Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, or Mike Conley might do wonders.
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:49 PM   #253
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I think the biggest problem and our biggest asset is Luka.

The bad: Luka is a unique player and you gotta build around him. Gotta get lots of length. Lots of interchangeable defenders. Love of rebounding and defense. Lots of shooting.

The good is that we don't need superstars. Guys who can shoot and defend are all we really need and those guys are easier to acquire than guys who are legitimate superstars. Just get some physical specimens with a decent stroke and they can look 10x the player next to Luka.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:05 PM   #254
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I think the biggest problem and our biggest asset is Luka.

The bad: Luka is a unique player and you gotta build around him. Gotta get lots of length. Lots of interchangeable defenders. Love of rebounding and defense. Lots of shooting.

The good is that we don't need superstars. Guys who can shoot and defend are all we really need and those guys are easier to acquire than guys who are legitimate superstars. Just get some physical specimens with a decent stroke and they can look 10x the player next to Luka.
And that's exactly why, strange as it may sound, the 18th pick can potentially come in right away and contribute.

Seriously, the starting sf/pf is up for grabs. Maxi didn't work and Curry didn't work. You can get away with them interchanging during the regular season, but both of those guys are better suited off the bench.

THJ seems to be better as a starter, and I like DFS starting as well. Who is the 5th starter next season? Burke?
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:05 PM   #255
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One problem the Mavs definitely have is too many line cooks and not enough chefs. They should be exploring every opportunity that involves moving someone on the roster not named Luka or KP. There's a long list of high-paid veterans with expiring deals who might be on the move. A 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 deal for Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, or Mike Conley might do wonders.
I couldn't agree more. A secondary (and tertiary) playmaker is so badly needed here.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:14 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
I think the biggest problem and our biggest asset is Luka.

The bad: Luka is a unique player and you gotta build around him. Gotta get lots of length. Lots of interchangeable defenders. Love of rebounding and defense. Lots of shooting.
I'm not trying to be contrarian, but I actually think Luka/KP are easier to build around than Nash/Dirk were. Neither is a stud defender, but both have the capacity to be plus defenders if the system is designed properly. Personally, I think this is way easier if you add a WING (bigger than DFS, hopefully) to the starting lineup, and not another BIG, but it's unclear how the Mavs feel about that. Those Harrell rumors scared the shit out of me.

The problem I see is that Luka was too successful too quickly. Somehow, they need to A) find another playmaker good enough to justify taking the ball out of Luka's hands every now and again, and B) convince Luka that he needs to play off ball just a bit (maybe 25% of the time?). B might just be more difficult than A.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:31 PM   #257
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I still think if we could make a deal surrounding Curry and Josh Richardson and then sign Grant would make us a more balanced and solid team.

Luka/Brunson
Richardson/Burke/Wright
THJ/DFS/Draft Pick
Grant/Maxi
KP/Powell/Boban/WCS
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Old 10-27-2020, 07:32 PM   #258
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And according to multiple league sources, no one is churning harder than Mavericks president and general manager Donnie Nelson, who has made it clear to peers league-wide [three things]. – via Brad Townsend @ Dallas Morning News
Top Rumors, Donnie Nelson, Draft, Free Agency, Trade, Dallas Mavericks

Dallas wants to acquire a third star to augment the pairing of Luka Doncic and Kristaps Porzingis, and if that takes adding other teams’ unwanted salaries so be it. All — repeat all — Mavericks players not named Doncic or Porzingis are available. Though they currently own the 18th and 31st picks in the Nov. 18 draft, the Mavericks have a strong desire to trade into the lottery (picks 1-14). – via Brad Townsend @ Dallas Morning News
Top Rumors, Draft, Trade, Kristaps Porzingis, Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks

Not surprisingly, I’m told that in the wake of Doncic’s monster 28.8-point, 9.4-rebound, 8.8-assist, All-NBA first-team season, more than a few player agents have whispered to the Mavericks that their client sure wouldn’t mind being part of Dallas’ promising future. – via Brad Townsend @ Dallas Morning News

Not sure if anyone has access to post the whole article?
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Old 10-27-2020, 07:46 PM   #259
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And according to multiple league sources, no one is churning harder than Mavericks president and general manager Donnie Nelson, who has made it clear to peers league-wide [three things]. – via Brad Townsend @ Dallas Morning News
Top Rumors, Donnie Nelson, Draft, Free Agency, Trade, Dallas Mavericks

Dallas wants to acquire a third star to augment the pairing of Luka Doncic and Kristaps Porzingis, and if that takes adding other teams’ unwanted salaries so be it. All — repeat all — Mavericks players not named Doncic or Porzingis are available. Though they currently own the 18th and 31st picks in the Nov. 18 draft, the Mavericks have a strong desire to trade into the lottery (picks 1-14). – via Brad Townsend @ Dallas Morning News
Top Rumors, Draft, Trade, Kristaps Porzingis, Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks

Not surprisingly, I’m told that in the wake of Doncic’s monster 28.8-point, 9.4-rebound, 8.8-assist, All-NBA first-team season, more than a few player agents have whispered to the Mavericks that their client sure wouldn’t mind being part of Dallas’ promising future. – via Brad Townsend @ Dallas Morning News

Not sure if anyone has access to post the whole article?
I don't, but here's a synopsis someone else posted on a different board:

And according to multiple league sources, no one is churning harder than Mavericks president and general manager Donnie Nelson, who has made it clear to peers league-wide that:

-Dallas wants to acquire a third star to augment the pairing of Luka Doncic and Kristaps Porzingis, and if that takes adding other teams' unwanted salaries so be it.

-All — repeat all — Mavericks players not named Doncic or Porzingis are available.

-Though they currently own the 18th and 31st picks in the Nov. 18 draft, the Mavericks have a strong desire to trade into the lottery (picks 1-14). That’s a lot to digest, especially the draft scenario, which is the most surprising development. The sources did not specify whether the Mavericks are trying to trade into the lottery’s upper, middle or lower tier.

Regardless, all of the above signals that, contrary to reports that they want to avoid adding future-season salaries so that they could enter the offseason of ’21 Giannis Antetokounmpo sweepstakes, the Mavericks are in urgency mode.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:02 PM   #260
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>>>BPo001
>>>Not sure if anyone has access to post the whole article?


Its a Mike Fischer article so buyer beware

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/new...PwzfHvdg_TQoGg

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Old 10-27-2020, 08:07 PM   #261
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>>>BPo001
>>>Not sure if anyone has access to post the whole article?


Its a Mike Fischer article so buyer beware

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/new...PwzfHvdg_TQoGg
I love how he wrote a clickbait article just to passive aggressively claim that Townsend wrote a clickbait article while simultaneously hinting that if you read his clickbait articles you already know everything in Townsend's.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:08 PM   #262
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I mean, the bit about trading up in the draft is interesting, but otherwise, I'm not sure if this really means anything.

"All — repeat all — Mavericks players not named Doncic or Porzingis are available. "

I mean... duh. Everyone outside of Luka and KP are easily replaceable role players.

It's not surprising that they're willing to take on bad salary... if it means getting a third star. I don't necessarily like the idea of sitting tight this year and crossing our fingers hoping we can land Giannis or anyone else next year. If they can get another star this year, then they should do it by all means.

It's just a matter of who do they think of as a "star" that's worth taking on bad salary for. I don't want to see the Mavs pushing all their chips forward for Blake Griffin or Kevin Love or some other "star" that doesn't actually help us win.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:20 PM   #263
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Well, I mean, if the Mavs want to trade up in the draft, then that would answer where they think they can add talent.

However, moving up is extremely difficult with little assets to do that specific task. You may be able to move up a couple spots, but that would be pretty costly.

I feel moving up in the draft is a bit of a smoke screen to make other trades to improve the roster.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:22 PM   #264
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:43 AM   #265
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One problem the Mavs definitely have is too many line cooks and not enough chefs. They should be exploring every opportunity that involves moving someone on the roster not named Luka or KP. There's a long list of high-paid veterans with expiring deals who might be on the move. A 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 deal for Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, or Mike Conley might do wonders.
Man, adding Lowry, if we could do it somehow without sending out Maxi or DFS, and then adding one of the good MLE guys (Gallo, Ibaka, Millsap, Crowder, Saric) on a one year deal makes this team suddenly extremely scary. Lowry is a HUGE difference maker on both ends. He rebounds. He can play on ball or off ball and get to the rim. He can switch on D. Hits big shots. Is expiring. Would they do 18,31, Brunson and Hardaway? Is that too much or too little?

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Old 10-28-2020, 09:19 AM   #266
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Man, adding Lowry, if we could do it somehow without sending out Maxi or DFS, and then adding one of the good MLE guys (Gallo, Ibaka, Millsap, Crowder, Saric) on a one year deal makes this team suddenly extremely scary. Lowry is a HUGE difference maker on both ends. He rebounds. He can play on ball or off ball and get to the rim. He can switch on D. Hits big shots. Is expiring. Would they do 18,31, Brunson and Hardaway? Is that too much or too little?

In my opinion that is too much because of Lowry’s age. I wouldn’t send draft picks, but I would send two of Kleber, Brunson, or Curry + any combination of Jackson, Wright, and Powell.

IMO it’s more likely the Raptors retool rather than rebuild, but if they decide to be cheap for a few years while forming the team around OG and VanVleet then we need to be in the conversation.
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Old 10-28-2020, 09:42 AM   #267
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I get the point of trying to move up in the draft if they have one specific target who they wanna really get. Or 2-3 that are gone for sure at #18. #18 is more the leftover position in this draft. So if they really really wanna get Poku or maybe one of the trio S.Bey/Williams/Achiuwa, then yeah. Throwing in #31 is okay but honestly i dont think thats enough to move into the late lottery. But they should go after the player they think is a great fit or a great value steal.

Pushing for the 3rd star, okay. IF its the right longterm player. I have zero interest in giving away one (or multiple) of Kleber/DFS/Curry for a 32+ year old player who is an UFA in 2021...

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Old 10-28-2020, 09:48 AM   #268
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I wouldn’t mind 18+31 for 16+46 from Blazers or something like that just to secure our guy. Maybe 18 + 31 to jump into 9-12

I’m not sure we have the pieces or if it even makes sense to try to shoot for a top 8. This is a super weak draft for superstars and a starter like Bey seems just as competent/likely to work out as any kid in the 5-15 spot
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:58 AM   #269
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Not a huge fan of trading up this draft unless someone like Okoro or Halliburton is falling. There’s not much difference between drafting at 12/13 and 18 IMO and 31 could yield a steal such as Tyler Bey, Paul Reed, Grant Riller, etc.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:10 AM   #270
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Not a huge fan of trading up this draft unless someone like Okoro or Halliburton is falling. There’s not much difference between drafting at 12/13 and 18 IMO and 31 could yield a steal such as Tyler Bey, Paul Reed, Grant Riller, etc.

Haliburton is going to be somebody. I don't see why he would fall.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:29 AM   #271
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Not a huge fan of trading up this draft unless someone like Okoro or Halliburton is falling. There’s not much difference between drafting at 12/13 and 18 IMO and 31 could yield a steal such as Tyler Bey, Paul Reed, Grant Riller, etc.
I'm only with it as long as:
1) There's a guy we're super high on who will be gone by 18 (S. Bey, etc.) and we just need a couple of spaces.

2) We don't pay too much. If it's 18+cash or 18 + future second, I'm okay with it. If it takes flipping 31 for 45, maybe.

I think there's a good chance we can get
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:33 AM   #272
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I wouldn’t mind 18+31 for 16+46 from Blazers or something like that just to secure our guy. Maybe 18 + 31 to jump into 9-12

I’m not sure we have the pieces or if it even makes sense to try to shoot for a top 8. This is a super weak draft for superstars and a starter like Bey seems just as competent/likely to work out as any kid in the 5-15 spot
And on the flip side we could move back if Bane falls to the mid 20s.

But yeah, I'd keep an eye on that Portland pick and Bey. Although, I don't know if they'd want to give him up if they could just land him.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:40 AM   #273
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Bey is a perfect fit for Portland too. Why they should trade down If wing is THE Position they need to improve
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:51 AM   #274
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Bey is a perfect fit for Portland too. Why they should trade down If wing is THE Position they need to improve
Honestly just spitballing what we could do.

Our 18+31 and cash/future second for Sac's 12+43 might work. Or 14+47 to Boston. I could see something like that happening and actually liking the result. Basically just leveraging our 31 to move up a couple of spots to get someone we like.

Maybe a team would do picks 7-12 for both 18 and 31. I'm not sold on doing it, but if there's someone we really like, I could see it happening.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:56 AM   #275
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Would love to root for a Horned Frog on the Mavs! Bane would fit in well with the Carlisle system. Smart, hard-working, knows his limitations and willing to do the dirty work if needed. Tough and energetic defender and rebounder, although maybe not the quickest with his feet. Deadly three-point shot. Quality guy and great team player.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:11 PM   #276
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Whoa, I definitely missed this if someone posted it...

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...nilo-Gallinari
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:22 PM   #277
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Whoa, I definitely missed this if someone posted it...

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...nilo-Gallinari
I like Dano a lot and I think he'd absolutely dominate and give us some major spacing for Luka.

Just as long as he misses more like 20 games a season and not 60. Imagine getting him and having him and KP both missing 60 games.
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Old 10-28-2020, 04:22 PM   #278
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And that's exactly why, strange as it may sound, the 18th pick can potentially come in right away and contribute.

Seriously, the starting sf/pf is up for grabs. Maxi didn't work and Curry didn't work. You can get away with them interchanging during the regular season, but both of those guys are better suited off the bench.

THJ seems to be better as a starter, and I like DFS starting as well. Who is the 5th starter next season? Burke?

Man when you put it that way I go back to my original draft binkie: Precious Achiuwa.

To be fair, I liked Marvin Bagley too, but Precious brings rebounding, defense, and hustle that complements our starting 5 really well:


THJ
Luka
DFS
Precious
KP

that's a tall and versatile group, and it doesn't matter that Precious can't shoot with four spacers (DFS in the corner) out there.
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Old 10-28-2020, 05:46 PM   #279
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I’m wondering if the Mavs go the other direction with a trade of their pick.
If Bane or Poku is their guy they might trade back and add another pick.

For instance, Sixers have several picks in 2nd round so maybe trade back a few picks to 21 and pickup #49.

Hell they might get Poku #21 and Bane #31 and then would love to see them grab Markus Howard at #49 to take the Barea spark plug role.
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Old 10-28-2020, 06:29 PM   #280
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We lost Silas and the Sixers gained Morey
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