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Old 01-20-2015, 02:17 AM   #1
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Clint points up amd says scoreboard.
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:57 AM   #2
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Clint also literally pointed to an empty chair and embarrassed himself and an entire political party.

Scoreboard what? He made a tone-deaf, unironic Team America sequel about a racist war criminal? The movie has absolutely zero chance of winning Best Picture. I don't even think it was one of the twenty best movies of the year.

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Old 01-20-2015, 08:25 AM   #3
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Thats your ( and your parties ) opinion. I thought it was hilarious and spot on.

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Old 01-20-2015, 09:02 AM   #4
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My party? LOL wut? And you are officially the first person I've even heard of that thought Clint's "speech" was anything but humiliating for everyone except the intended target.

And I don't deny that it's a huge hit. I don't think anyone expected it to have... what was it, the biggest opening weekend for an R-rated movie ever?
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:27 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
My party? LOL wut? And you are officially the first person I've even heard of that thought Clint's "speech" was anything but humiliating for everyone except the intended target.

And I don't deny that it's a huge hit. I don't think anyone expected it to have... what was it, the biggest opening weekend for an R-rated movie ever?
You dont get out much.
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:53 AM   #6
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You dont get out much.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:30 AM   #7
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Those democrats...

"Some of those opponents took action against American Sniper on Sunday, when they defaced a billboard for the film in Los Angeles by tagging the word “murder” across it in red spray paint."
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:14 AM   #8
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Geez ma!
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:14 AM   #9
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Well, it's probably difficult to completely take politics out of a war movie...
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:15 AM   #10
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Especially when hollywood types are making it so.
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:32 AM   #11
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I'm sure it's possible to talk about a movie without immediately bashing others and stereotyping everyone from the opposing viewpoint. THAT is what makes this thread more worthy of the Politics forum than the Lounge.

Spreedom, that does go for you. It seems like you were the first to snipe and make it snarky and political. I understand that some movies can have political elements, but this thread has gone beyond talking about the political framing and long ago became about political sniping and sarcastic remarks about other peoples' political views.
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:38 AM   #12
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I don't think I said anything off-topic or inappropriate but whatever. Dude brought the topic back up and lobbed a meatball down the middle of the plate.

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Old 01-20-2015, 03:48 PM   #13
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Well, it's probably difficult to completely take politics out of a war movie...
yeah, i would imagine so. And most people that make a war movie probably have some underlying points that they'd like to make as well.

(i don;t know ANYTHING about this particular movie, so these are general points)
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:52 PM   #14
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Thats your ( and your parties ) opinion. I thought it was hilarious and spot on.

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Old 01-20-2015, 05:14 PM   #15
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A great write-up, articulating a lot of my issues with American Sniper:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...yle?CMP=twt_gu

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The real American Sniper was a hate-filled killer. Why are simplistic patriots treating him as a hero?
Lindy West

Clint Eastwood’s film about Navy Seal Chris Kyle has hit a raw nerve in America, with right wingers calling for the rape or death of anyone ungrateful enough to criticise his actions

I have to confess: I was suckered by the trailer for American Sniper. It’s a masterpiece of short-form tension – a confluence of sound and image so viscerally evocative it feels almost domineering. You cannot resist. You will be stressed out. You will feel. Or, as I believe I put it in a blog about the trailer, “Clint Eastwood’s American Sniper trailer will ruin your pants.”

But however effective it is as a piece of cinema, even a cursory look into the film’s backstory – and particularly the public reaction to its release – raises disturbing questions about which stories we choose to codify into truth, and whose, and why, and the messy social costs of transmogrifying real life into entertainment.

Chris Kyle, a US navy Seal from Texas, was deployed to Iraq in 2003 and claimed to have killed more than 255 people during his six-year military career. In his memoir, Kyle reportedly described killing as “fun”, something he “loved”; he was unwavering in his belief that everyone he shot was a “bad guy”. “I hate the damn savages,” he wrote. “I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the Iraqis.” He bragged about murdering looters during Hurricane Katrina, though that was never substantiated.

He was murdered in 2013 at a Texas gun range by a 25-year-old veteran reportedly suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

However we diverge politically, I have enough faith in Eastwood’s artistry and intellect to trust that he is not a black-and-white ideologue – or, at least, that he knows that the limitations of such a worldview would make for an extremely dull movie. But the same can’t be said for Eastwood’s subject, or, as response to the film has demonstrated, many of his fans.

As Laura Miller wrote in Salon: “In Kyle’s version of the Iraq war, the parties consisted of Americans, who are good by virtue of being American, and fanatic Muslims whose ‘savage, despicable evil’ led them to want to kill Americans simply because they are Christians.”

Adds Scott Foundas at Variety: “Chris Kyle saw the world in clearly demarcated terms of good and evil, and American Sniper suggests that such dichromatism may have been key to both his success and survival; on the battlefield, doubt is akin to death.”

Eastwood, on the other hand, Foundas says, “sees only shades of gray”, and American Sniper is a morally ambiguous, emotionally complex film. But there are a lot of Chris Kyles in the world, and the chasm between Eastwood’s intent and his audience’s reception touches on the old Chappelle’s Show conundrum: a lot of white people laughed at Dave Chappelle’s rapier racial satire for the wrong reasons, in ways that may have actually exacerbated stereotypes about black people in the minds of intellectual underachievers. Is that Chappelle’s fault? Should he care?

Likewise, much of the US right wing appears to have seized upon American Sniper with similarly shallow comprehension – treating it with the same unconsidered, rah-rah reverence that they would the national anthem or the flag itself. Only a few weeks into its release, the film has been flattened into a symbol to serve the interests of an ideology that, arguably, runs counter to the ethos of the film itself. How much, if at all, should Eastwood concern himself with fans who misunderstand and misuse his work? If he, intentionally or not, makes a hero out of Kyle – who, bare minimum, was a racist who took pleasure in dehumanising and killing brown people – is he responsible for validating racism, murder, and dehumanisation? Is he a propagandist if people use his work as propaganda?

That question came to the fore last week on Twitter when several liberal journalists drew attention to Kyle’s less Oscar-worthy statements. “Chris Kyle boasted of looting the apartments of Iraqi families in Fallujah,” wrote author and former Daily Beast writer Max Blumenthal. “Kill every male you see,” Rania Khalek quoted, calling Kyle an “American psycho”.

Retaliation from the rightwing twittersphere was swift and violent, as Khalek documented in an exhaustive (and exhausting) post at Alternet. “Move your America hating ass to Iraq, let ISIS rape you then cut your cunt head off, fucking media whore muslim,” wrote a rather unassuming-looking mom named Donna. “Rania, maybe we to take you ass overthere and give it to ISIS … Dumb bitch,” offered a bearded man named Ronald, who enjoys either bass fishing or playing the bass (we may never know). “Waterboarding is far from torture,” explained an army pilot named Benjamin, all helpfulness. “I wouldn’t mind giving you two a demonstration.”

The patriots go on, and on and on. They cannot believe what they are reading. They are rushing to the defence of not just Kyle, but their country, what their country means. They call for the rape or death of anyone ungrateful enough to criticise American hero Chris Kyle. Because Chris Kyle is good, and brown people are bad, and America is in danger, and Chris Kyle saved us. The attitude echoes what Miller articulated about Kyle in her Salon piece: “his steadfast imperviousness to any nuance, subtlety or ambiguity, and his lack of imagination and curiosity, seem particularly notable”.

There is no room for the idea that Kyle might have been a good soldier but a bad guy; or a mediocre guy doing a difficult job badly; or a complex guy in a bad war who convinced himself he loved killing to cope with an impossible situation; or a straight-up serial killer exploiting an oppressive system that, yes, also employs lots of well-meaning, often impoverished, non-serial-killer people to do oppressive things over which they have no control. Or that Iraqis might be fully realized human beings with complex inner lives who find joy in food and sunshine and family, and anguish in the murders of their children. Or that you can support your country while thinking critically about its actions and its citizenry. Or that many truths can be true at once.

Always meet your heroes.

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Old 01-20-2015, 09:02 PM   #16
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...
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:36 PM   #17
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Old 01-21-2015, 03:43 PM   #18
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Let's take it easy on "war criminal". I tend to agree with the overall point of that Guardian article, but also think one should be verrrry careful in vilifying someone like Chris Kyle. I haven't read his book (or seen the movie yet), but from what I've read about him, some of his views are unfortunate, while others are pretty standard for someone that's been in the environment. I imagine it would be very difficult to function in combat without the sort of world view that most of us would find somewhat uncomfortable.

I agree with the article's point that it's unfortunate that nuanced conversation is being drowned out, and a movie that would ideally have generated social conversation and made people think is instead being consumed as a glorification piece. But calling the guy a war criminal isn't doing much to advance the conversation.
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:46 PM   #19
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I am sure that all of the soldiers whose lives were saved by a well placed bullet consider him a war criminal. I am sure they wish he hadnt pulled the trigger as well.

Ridiculous. But expected.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:15 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
I'm sure it's possible to talk about a movie without immediately bashing others and stereotyping everyone from the opposing viewpoint. THAT is what makes this thread more worthy of the Politics forum than the Lounge.

Spreedom, that does go for you. It seems like you were the first to snipe and make it snarky and political. I understand that some movies can have political elements, but this thread has gone beyond talking about the political framing and long ago became about political sniping and sarcastic remarks about other peoples' political views.
Coming from someone that just got through with her own Benghazi joke series in the "Other Sports" section.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:17 AM   #21
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Someone needs to take a dump on Lindy West's face.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:10 PM   #22
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I am sure that all of the soldiers whose lives were saved by a well placed bullet consider him a war criminal. I am sure they wish he hadnt pulled the trigger as well.

Ridiculous. But expected.
If we liberal anti-war types had our way all the soldiers who died in Iraq lives would have been saved because we wouldn't be fighting that pointless war.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:59 PM   #23
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If we liberal anti-war types had our way all the soldiers who died in Iraq lives would have been saved because we wouldn't be fighting that pointless war.
All of your leaders voted for it. So go talk to them. If you liberal anti-war types had any balls you would have voted them out of office.

When did you see the movie anyway? And if you did, didn't you think it showed how tough it was to do your job? Both there and at home? Did it show some sort of murdering lunatic or someone with an overactive sense of devotion and protection?
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:25 PM   #24
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All of your leaders voted for it. So go talk to them. If you liberal anti-war types had any balls you would have voted them out of office.
FWIW, only 39% of Democratic House reps voted for it, and 58% of Democratic Senators. Your point is well-stated though, since prominent dems Biden, Kerry, Hilary, Russ Feinstein, John Edwards, and Harry Reid all voted in favor of it.

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When did you see the movie anyway? And if you did, didn't you think it showed how tough it was to do your job? Both there and at home? Did it show some sort of murdering lunatic or someone with an overactive sense of devotion and protection?
My main criticism of the movie (other than it just not being very good in general outside of Cooper's and Miller's performances) is that the characterization of Kyle doesn't at all match up with the book. In the movie, he was written as a very conflicted man who regretted having to kill anyone (in fact, doesn't he say in his Army recruitment visit that he doesn't want to shoot anyone? Maybe I'm misremembering that part), but in the book he seems to have a very black-and-white view of right and wrong, going so far as to call the Iraqis, wholesale, "savages" that he "liked" shooting. Do you feel I'm being unfair with any of those observations?
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:22 PM   #25
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http://deadline.com/2015/01/american...er-1201359218/

Quote:
Civil Rights Org Sees Rise In Threats Against Muslims Over ‘American Sniper’

Washington, DC-based civil rights organization, the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, has written to Clint Eastwood and Bradley Cooper outlining an escalation in threats made against Arab and Muslim Americans since the release of American Sniper, and asking for their help to “reduce the hateful rhetoric.” In a letter dated January 21, ADC President Samer Khalaf wrote, “A majority of the violent threats we have seen over the past few days are (the) result of how Arabs and Muslims are depicted” in the film. Khalaf says the group is in receipt of “hundreds of violent messages” from moviegoers, many of which have been made on social media.

The Warner Bros film has been a huge hit at the domestic box office, crossing $200M this weekend. Overseas, it has opened to the biggest grosses of Eastwood’s directorial career in many territories. It is also nominated for six Oscars.

Warner Bros’ spokesman Jack Horner told Reuters over the weekend that the company “denounces any violent, anti-Muslim rhetoric, including that which has been attributed to viewers.” He added, “Hate and bigotry have no place in the important dialogue that this picture has generated about the veteran experience.”

The story of expert Navy Seal marksman Chris Kyle, “the most lethal sniper in U.S. history,” who had 160 kills in Iraq, is proving both a big draw and talking point across the Arab world. Despite the box office heat and critical accolades, there has also been criticism in the international media of the film’s perceived whitewashing of Kyle’s actions.

The ADC said it believes Eastwood and Cooper could “play a significant role in assisting us in alleviating the danger we are facing.” Wrote Khalaf, “Your visibility, influence and connection to the film would be a tremendous force in drawing attention to and lessening the serious dangers facing the respective communities.”

Khalaf also noted that the ADC is working with the FBI and police to address the threats. He told Reuters this weekend that there was no sense in calling for a boycott of the film. “People are going to see the movie. If we boycott it, it will only cause people to want to see it more.”
Wait... poorly-written, dishonest, tone-deaf, unironic spiritual Team America: World Police sequel has caused a spike in Islamophobia and hate crime threats?

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