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View Poll Results: Who gets the last roster spot and the second two-way deal
Maxi Kleber (6'11" Forward) 8 47.06%
Brandon Ashley (6'9" Forward) 5 29.41%
PJ Dozier (6'6" SG/SF) 5 29.41%
Gian Clavell (6'4" combo guard) 1 5.88%
Maalik Wayns (6'1" combo guard) 1 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-04-2017, 04:17 PM   #1
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Default Official Training Camp thread

With training camp supposedly happening in September and a training camp roster finalized, it's about time to turn our attention to Training Camp and Pre-season



Five guys looking for 1 guaranteed roster spot and 1 two-way spot

15+2 man roster
1) Barea
2) Barnes
3) Curry
4) Ferrell
5) Finney-Smith
6) Harris
7) Matthews
8) Mejri
9) McRoberts
10) Noel
11) Nowitzki
12) Powell
13) Smith
14) Withey
15)
-----
16*) Motley
17*)

Depth Chart guaranteed contracts
Dirk/Noel/Mejri/Withey
Barnes/McRoberts/Powell
Matthews/ Finney-Smith/
Curry/ Harris/ ???
Smith/Ferrell/Barea
+ Pre-season Game dates
Mon, Oct 2 - Bucks at Mavs
Wed, Oct 4 - Bulls at Mavs
Thu, Oct 5 - Mavs at Magic
Mon, Oct 9 - Magic at Mavs
Thu, Oct 12 - Mavs at Hawks
Fri, Oct 13 - Mavs at Hornets
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:09 PM   #2
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https://hoopshabit.com/2017/09/04/da...-nba-season/5/

Anybody read this yet? I think Dirk instead of Yogi could actually have a realistic chance to win 6th man of the year award. This bold prediction says Mavs get 4th in the west.

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Old 09-05-2017, 10:48 AM   #3
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I like Dozier's youth and upside and hope he is able to score enough to get PT and he does fill a need on the wing. He can become an elite defender and hopefully eventually take Wes' spot as he ages. Gotta become consistent on 3s though.

I'm intrigued by Kleber much like Brussino last season and think he could immediately contribute and take some PT from Powell.

So I'd like to see those two make the roster with Kleber getting the last spot on the 15 man roster and Dozier the final two-way.

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Old 09-05-2017, 10:57 AM   #4
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I like Dozier's youth and upside and hope he is able to score enough to get PT and he does fill a need on the wing. He can become an elite defender and hopefully eventually take Wes' spot as he ages. Gotta become consistent on 3s though.

I'm intrigued by Kleber much like Brussino last season and think he could immediately contribute and take some PT from Powell.

So I'd like to see those two make the roster with Kleber getting the last spot on the 15 man roster and Dozier the final two-way.
Any sizeable guy who can hit the mid-long range J is going to take Powell minutes.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:13 PM   #5
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I like Dozier's youth and upside and hope he is able to score enough to get PT and he does fill a need on the wing. He can become an elite defender and hopefully eventually take Wes' spot as he ages. Gotta become consistent on 3s though.

I'm intrigued by Kleber much like Brussino last season and think he could immediately contribute and take some PT from Powell.

So I'd like to see those two make the roster with Kleber getting the last spot on the 15 man roster and Dozier the final two-way.
I like Dozier a lot. He's ballsy on the drive and was one of the top 3 defenders in the entire NCAA last year. His defense was essential in propelling his team to the final four. It's rare to have a guy whose defense is so good it actually propels your team to the next level. He can drive well and defend like Marion. He's also got crazy length and athleticism-- he's got that Josh Howard frame. Lean, wirey, coiled like a spring. Big wingspan. Able to guard multiple positions. Surprisingly smart moving off the ball. Not the best BBIQ, but like Howard he just finds ways to be in the right place at the right time or to make good things happen.

I just don't know how well he fits into the modern NBA. Shooting from the guard positions is almost imperative. DFS (our backup forward) at least shot 37% from three in college (but only 29% for us last year). Dozier shot a hair under 30% in college. If Dozier wants a shot, he's gotta shoot the stationary jumper at least passably well. Moving without the ball is great, but you have to be able to shoot as well as drive when you get open or teams will just sink and beg you to shoot. He's going to be asked to be 3/D way more often than he'll find opportunities to penetrate off the pass.

Then again, Marion is the same height and only shot 29% from three in college. Marion also had absolutely elite rebounding in his game, but there may be a place for a guy who is elite defensively and a work in progress shooting the ball.

Kleber is okay. His defense is questionable for the PF spot as is his rebounding from the center spot. His athleticism is sub-par for both. He has a really nice jumpshot, though. It's not particularly high or quick on the release, but a big that can shoot is important and big guys don't get challenged like guards so the release point and speed of release won't be as important. I like that Dirk likes him and I like him taking Powell's minutes, but he reeks of a less developed/polished Raef LaFrentz to me.
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:14 PM   #6
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Feels like Wayns is on the outside looking in -- I just can't see another undersized guard winning one of those last 2 spots with Curry, Barea, and Yogi already on the roster.

I agree with you guys about Dozier -- he's the most "Rick Carlisle guy" of the bunch, and is the most likely to grab one of those two remaining spots.

Ashley was really hot and cold in Summer League, showing flashes of being an NBA player at times, then just falling apart at others... I think he's going to need a great preseason to lock up a roster/2-way spot.

As for Gian and Maxi -- I've seen their measurables, but I really need to see how they look against NBA talent before I can judge them... They're both a bit of a mystery to me right now.
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:43 PM   #7
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Feels like Wayns is on the outside looking in -- I just can't see another undersized guard winning one of those last 2 spots with Curry, Barea, and Yogi already on the roster.

I agree with you guys about Dozier -- he's the most "Rick Carlisle guy" of the bunch, and is the most likely to grab one of those two remaining spots.

Ashley was really hot and cold in Summer League, showing flashes of being an NBA player at times, then just falling apart at others... I think he's going to need a great preseason to lock up a roster/2-way spot.

As for Gian and Maxi -- I've seen their measurables, but I really need to see how they look against NBA talent before I can judge them... They're both a bit of a mystery to me right now.
Yeah, I like Ashley a lot, but he's going to have to bring it as a 6'9" forward without the strongest rebounding ability. I think we all agree that Powell is trash and shouldn't be part of the rotation, but Rick doesn't necessarily agree or he's pressured to play Powell by the guys paying him. Looking at the depth chart, our SG position is the most in-need, but dude's 23, has the BBIQ and work ethic and has added range to his jumper potentially all the way to the three point line. Who knows? Rick certainly values a PF that can shoot. Powell's jumper has been so inconsistent that Ashley may have a chance to leapfrog him. He just has a lot to show.

Gian Clavell I didn't see play last year, but he looks like a SG with decent size that can hit the three. I'd definitely put him on the outside looking in, but if he can consistently hit the three, then he could backup Curry. I still like my feisty Puerto Ricans ever since Barea 's first season with us and who knows? Maybe Barea has some insight on him since they've played together and I think Barea has even coached him. Otherwise I think he's a super long shot.

Maxi is 6'11" and plays like Raef LaFrentz lite. Not great rebounding. Slow/low jumper, but has range. His athleticism is pretty sub-par and may be one of those Rigadon'ts that have enough athleticism to be good in Europe but not enough for the NBA. Still, he plays like a homeless man's Dirk and Rick values shooting. Heck, Dirk lacks athleticism too and had a slower release coming into the league. Kleber also makes Dirk happy. I mean, the Rondo trade made Dirk happy, but Kleber would be either the 15th or 17th man on the roster. Not a huge cost to keep Dallas' sports god happy
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:18 PM   #8
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Yeah, I like Ashley a lot, but he's going to have to bring it as a 6'9" forward without the strongest rebounding ability. I think we all agree that Powell is trash and shouldn't be part of the rotation, but Rick doesn't necessarily agree or he's pressured to play Powell by the guys paying him. Looking at the depth chart, our SG position is the most in-need. Dude's 23, has the BBIQ and work ethic and has added range to his jumper. Who knows? Rick certainly values a PF that can shoot because our centers can't. Powell's jumper has been so inconsistent that Ashley may have a chance to leapfrog him.

Gian Clavell I didn't see play last year, but he looks like a SG with decent size that can hit the three. I'd definitely put him on the outside looking in, but if he can consistently hit the three, then he could backup Curry. I still like my feisty Puerto Ricans since Barea and who knows? Maybe Barea has some insight on him since they've played together. Otherwise I think he's a super long shot.

Maxi is 6'11" and plays like Raef LaFrentz light. Not great rebounding. Slow/low jumper, but has range. His athleticismis pretty sub-par and may be one of those Rigadon'ts that have enough athleticism for Europe but not for the NBA. Still, he plays like a homeless man's Dirk and Rick values shooting.
Pretty much agree with all of this.
Ashley to me just seems like the ultimate tweener and one of those guys who is a great player at the college/summer league/D-league level but not well suited for the NBA. Too small to play PF but not quick enough to play SF. Those guys are a dime a dozen around the league so I see it somewhat pointless to spend too much development time on him.

Kleber is one of those guys who doesn't have a high ceiling but someone who might actually provide something we can use off the bench. I'd take a chance on him but would definitely give Dozier more of a look because there is simply much more upside.

I definitely think we are in more of the position of taking chances on players with more upside than we are at trying to find players that are a good fit.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:51 PM   #9
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Brandon Ashley showed a lot in summer league. He's real close getting a spot. Think I like him as a small PF. Especially from the perimeter game he's shown already. Just gotta prove it in preseason.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:20 PM   #10
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Can you add "Random" to the options?
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:59 PM   #11
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Can you add "Random" to the options?
A random person not on the 20-man roster

Or

Donn literally rolls a ten-sided die and chooses that way?
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:26 PM   #12
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I wanted to pick Dozier, but I couldn't. That 3pt% of his was atrocious. His FT% was 59% also, I just can't get on board with that as part of the 15/17. If we didn't have DFS I'd be all for taking him with the 2way but I'd rather we get him on the Legends if possible and see if that shot improves there. Clavell on the other hand took 7.5 3's a game and shot it more than respectably for such a high volume. He also looked really good in vegas SL. I just think he can contribute if called upon. Dozier is a project to me, he's only 20, he has very little polish at all offensively. Put him on the Legends and see where he is next year. Wish he would have stayed in college another year.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:21 AM   #13
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Yeah Dozier really shouldn't make an NBA team in 2017-2018, but god am I cheering for him. He's got that fire in his belly and his defense reminds me of Marion. At 20 and as raw as he is, a two-way may be his (and our) best bet if his skill transfers to the next level and his belly is still a furnace.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:10 AM   #14
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Yeah Dozier really shouldn't make an NBA team in 2017-2018, but god am I cheering for him. He's got that fire in his belly and his defense reminds me of Marion. At 20 and as raw as he is, a two-way may be his (and our) best bet if his skill transfers to the next level and his belly is still a furnace.
Funny you mention fire in the belly because that is the one knock I have on Withey. I think he could be a really good center in this league if he had that fire in the belly that you mention.

I personally think that one trait is a major factor that separates the good from the great. The competitive spirit to be the best and win drives the great players to work on the weaknesses of their game and improve upon their strengths.
We have all witnessed that first hand for the past 20 years.

Like you I'm cheering for Dozier to improve on his shooting because he could be a great backcourt complement to DSJ someday.

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Old 09-06-2017, 10:31 AM   #15
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Funny you mention fire in the belly because that is the one knock I have on Withey. I think he could be a really good center in this league if he had that fire in the belly that you mention.

I personally think that one trait is a major factor that separates the good from the great. The competitive spirit to be the best and win drives the great players to work on the weaknesses of their game and improve upon their strengths.
We have all witnessed that first hand for the past 20 years.

Like you I'm cheering for Dozier to improve on his shooting because he could be a great backcourt complement to DSJ someday.
Yeah Withey seems like a Dalembert type. He's certainly got some natural talent, but doesn't seem to care a whole lot and really hasn't improved his game since entering the league. Mejri is incredibly raw and a bit of a loose cannon, but I'd prefer him 10 times out of 10 over Withey. Hopefully if he got a fully guaranteed contract like some are reporting, he sticks around as our fourth stringer and Noel/Mejri injury insurance only.
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:43 AM   #16
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I wanted to pick Dozier, but I couldn't. That 3pt% of his was atrocious. His FT% was 59% also, I just can't get on board with that as part of the 15/17. If we didn't have DFS I'd be all for taking him with the 2way but I'd rather we get him on the Legends if possible and see if that shot improves there. Clavell on the other hand took 7.5 3's a game and shot it more than respectably for such a high volume. He also looked really good in vegas SL. I just think he can contribute if called upon. Dozier is a project to me, he's only 20, he has very little polish at all offensively. Put him on the Legends and see where he is next year. Wish he would have stayed in college another year.
All good points and valid concerns.

I'm not sure if Dozier is the answer but I still think one of the last 2 spots need to be filled by an athletic wing....preferably a SG/SF 3-D guy. I see DFS and Barnes as 3/4 guys which puts Wes as our only SG/SF with any size. All of our other SGs are undersized but if Clavell can play any D I wouldn't mind him filling that role.
I'm just hoping for Dozier because he is younger, bigger and more athletic but if he can't shoot I do agree that will be a problem.

That is why I was hoping we would've picked up McLemore because I thought he was perfect for that role. He's a decent player with decent athleticism and size who has shooting skills and can play D but should never be considered a goto guy because he lacks BBIQ. I just feel Rick tries to improvise with small lineups because he doesn't have enough talented personnel at the wings. Not sure if that is by design or not though.

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Old 09-06-2017, 01:19 PM   #17
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I'd love for it to be dozier, just don't think it will be. Because I think they will sign him with the Legends. We gave Motley a 2way because I think many people thought he was a guy who could go as early as the end of the first round, so I'm sure he had his pick of places. To my knowledge it's not a surprise at all that Dozier went undrafted. But I just highly doubt a guy who looks like he'd be a good 2 years away from helping us win games would get a 2 way contract or a spot on the 15man if others are better able to help us now. From everything I've read he has a lot of potential as a 6'6 pg and secondary playmaker but only has shown flashes to this point. The Lakers I believe had him listed as a pg as well in SL. So if his future is as a pg especially, he is going to need some time to develop. And until I see it I don't think RC is going to love taking up a spot on the roster with someone who isn't ready to contribute. He could help with his defense but I think if you see him as a future pg or secondary ball handler you don't do him any favors in his development putting him in the corner on offense and having him out there for just his defense. You would have to be willing to take the lumps with him on offense and we have way too many pg options for RC right now.

The only way I see it happening is if he plays so well in preseason that he forces our hand to give him that last 2way contract to secure him, otherwise I think he's far enough away that you can handle keeping an eye on him from the D league and having him learn the offense with the Legends. But I do think he is the best prospect. I'd even go as far as to say I like him as a prospect more than Motley. I think it also says a lot about how much the Mavs liked him that he only played 10 mins of summer league before getting hurt yet the Mavs offered him a partial guarantee to come to camp. That means he was most definitely on their radar after the draft, perhaps he even chose the Lakers over us.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
Yeah Withey seems like a Dalembert type. He's certainly got some natural talent, but doesn't seem to care a whole lot and really hasn't improved his game since entering the league. Mejri is incredibly raw and a bit of a loose cannon, but I'd prefer him 10 times out of 10 over Withey. Hopefully if he got a fully guaranteed contract like some are reporting, he sticks around as our fourth stringer and Noel/Mejri injury insurance only.
It seems to me the Mavs probably grabbed Withey as insurance because of the unknowns with Noel for both injury and contract situation. Withey is definitely serviceable as a backup for a few games and limited minutes and imo the perfect 3rd option big man. I also prefer Mejri over Withey but feel Withey could be more of an impact if he sharpened his existing skills and adds some meanness to his game. He's a pretty good shooter and a terrific weak-side defender. He has a good stroke and is pretty mobile with a long WS so it would be nice to see if he can compete with Mejri for the primary backup role.

Either way I like our Center situation right now....seem to have a decent 3 headed monster similar to 06 (Damp/Diop/Mbenga) and 2011 (Chandler/Haywood/Mihinmi). Obviously different circumstances but nevertheless a pretty comfortable situation as far as I'm concerned.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:40 PM   #19
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I'd love for it to be dozier, just don't think it will be. Because I think they will sign him with the Legends. We gave Motley a 2way because I think many people thought he was a guy who could go as early as the end of the first round, so I'm sure he had his pick of places. To my knowledge it's not a surprise at all that Dozier went undrafted. But I just highly doubt a guy who looks like he'd be a good 2 years away from helping us win games would get a 2 way contract or a spot on the 15man if others are better able to help us now. From everything I've read he has a lot of potential as a 6'6 pg and secondary playmaker but only has shown flashes to this point. The Lakers I believe had him listed as a pg as well in SL. So if his future is as a pg especially, he is going to need some time to develop. And until I see it I don't think RC is going to love taking up a spot on the roster with someone who isn't ready to contribute. He could help with his defense but I think if you see him as a future pg or secondary ball handler you don't do him any favors in his development putting him in the corner on offense and having him out there for just his defense. You would have to be willing to take the lumps with him on offense and we have way too many pg options for RC right now.

The only way I see it happening is if he plays so well in preseason that he forces our hand to give him that last 2way contract to secure him, otherwise I think he's far enough away that you can handle keeping an eye on him from the D league and having him learn the offense with the Legends. But I do think he is the best prospect. I'd even go as far as to say I like him as a prospect more than Motley. I think it also says a lot about how much the Mavs liked him that he only played 10 mins of summer league before getting hurt yet the Mavs offered him a partial guarantee to come to camp. That means he was most definitely on their radar after the draft, perhaps he even chose the Lakers over us.
Lakers had him in Summer League. Admittedly he was playing behind Ball, but dude only averaged 1ppg, 1.5 rpg in 5mpg (2 total games played). Their offense was a complete mess when Ball wasn't on the court, so its hard to read much into it.

1-3 FG, 0-1 3pters, 0-0 FT. Pretty far from the 17pts, 9reb, 2ast, 2stl, 1blk that he put up in the Final Four game where they almost upset Gonzaga

You're probably right about him just being that raw. Not a lot of teams fighting for him unless he shows something totally surprising and defense and fire won't get him noticed. Hell have to show something he hasn't shown in his career to get noticed-- a jumper and/or playmaking
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Old 09-07-2017, 12:17 PM   #20
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Ugh, training camp apparently starts in 2-3 weeks, but no dates have yet to be announced
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:33 PM   #21
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Will Dirk come off the bench as a non starter before he retires?
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:23 AM   #22
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Media day 9/22
First practice 9/23
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:09 PM   #23
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Media day 9/22
First practice 9/23
Finally, some dates!
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:50 PM   #24
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Tick tock tick tock..


..and Cue EL with the longest countdown known to mankind.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:02 PM   #25
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10 days
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:57 PM   #26
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NBA tv has been showing a lot of 2011 Mavs playoff/finals games. First game against portland is on. Not the one when roy scored like 50.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:12 AM   #27
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9 days
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:14 PM   #28
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Helloooo in here ...... We still sitting at 9 days until more mavs related news? give er take?
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:42 PM   #29
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Helloooo in here ...... We still sitting at 9 days until more mavs related news? give er take?
Most likely. We have a 20-man roster so even though we have some cap, we're unlikely to sign someone else. Until media day and the first team practices, about the only thing we'll have is a tweet from a player.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:45 PM   #30
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We have a 20-man roster so even though we have some cap, we're unlikely to sign someone else.
Yeah, I feel like the possibility of adding another player ended when Shabazz re-signed with Minny for peanuts... Obviously we like our current situation.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:45 PM   #31
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Most likely. We have a 20-man roster so even though we have some cap, we're unlikely to sign someone else. Until media day and the first team practices, about the only thing we'll have is a tweet from a player.

I'll accept tweets during this harsh window. And as usual thank you for your contributions regarding the matters.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:45 PM   #32
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It'll be interesting to see if DSJ and Ashley continue their on court chemstiry.

Of course, my interest in the team this season relies heavily on DSJ being on the court.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:14 PM   #33
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It'll be interesting to see if DSJ and Ashley continue their on court chemstiry.

Of course, my interest in the team this season relies heavily on DSJ being on the court.
Based one what you know now, do you think he'll make the roster this year (either as 15th man or the second two-way)?
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:08 AM   #34
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Based one what you know now, do you think he'll make the roster this year (either as 15th man or the second two-way)?
Bigs that shoot are definitely a commodity. I think he has a chance if he plays as well in the preseason.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:02 PM   #35
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Is Terry signed yet? Tough he doesn't retire a Maverick.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:58 PM   #36
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Is Terry signed yet? Tough he doesn't retire a Maverick.
Your schtick is old
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:27 PM   #37
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Your schtick is old
What's old is you being behind free agency
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:29 PM   #38
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I mention that Terry is still a free agent. Then get trolled. That's getting so old when he helped Dirk win a title.
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:40 PM   #39
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What's old is you being behind free agency
The Mavs training camp roster is at 20, which is the maximum players allowed... Obviously you're the one who isn't keeping up with free agency.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:29 PM   #40
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