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Old 03-10-2018, 10:34 AM   #921
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Yeah, that was clearly intentional. Sticking your ass out knocking another player down on the break can cause serious injury.
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Old 03-10-2018, 11:00 AM   #922
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Anyone have a link to some film on Michael Porter Jr. that will sell me on why he should be considered a top 5 pick despite the injury questions?

From watching previous summer ball videos, it is clear he is threat from the outside. My concern is the lack of ball handling skills and speed which leads to lack of penetration. Often times, he ends up settling for less than ideal outside shots as a result.

Make no mistake, I know he can shoot. My question is if he can do anything else at the next level. I don't see explosion, quickness, or ball handling as strengths. He has some length, but that advantage will continue to diminish at the next level as he faces longer and taller competitors.

@Underdog - I know you have been an advocate here. Help me to see it.

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Old 03-10-2018, 11:54 AM   #923
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Why? It wasn't a dirty play. Happens all the time. I'm no Grayson fan, but that wasn't a flagrant foul.
This for me as well. It was a foul not a flagrant foul. In the NBA though it wouldda been a flagrant 2 with how soft that shit has become.
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:07 PM   #924
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Anyone have a link to some film on Michael Porter Jr. that will sell me on why he should be considered a top 5 pick despite the injury questions?

From watching previous summer ball videos, it is clear he is threat from the outside. My concern is the lack of ball handling skills and speed which leads to lack of penetration. Often times, he ends up settling for less than ideal outside shots as a result.

Make no mistake, I know he can shoot. My question is if he can do anything else at the next level. I don't see explosion, quickness, or ball handling as strengths. He has some length, but that advantage will continue to diminish at the next level as he faces longer and taller competitors.

@Underdog - I know you have been an advocate here. Help me to see it.
Sure, Porter takes a lot of "less than ideal outside shots," but his key strength is that he can actually hit them -- the kid is a dominant shooter from pretty much anywhere on the floor and can create his own shot with jabs, fakes, step-backs, etc... Sure, he doesn't have the greatest handles, but he's excellent off the ball, which somewhat negates his only real weakness (especially if a guy like DSJ is setting him up). He has soft hands, which makes him great in catch & shoot situations, but he's also effective at making plays off the bounce or off lobs in slashing situations, using his length and athleticism to wreck shop above the rim. He's comfortable streaking up the floor in transition and deadly in space, which would make him an ideal running mate for Dennis... In addition to is natural scoring abilities, Porter is a strong rebounder with great anticipation and footwork (which also makes him a decent interior defender when it comes to timing blocks), as well as an effective perimeter defender with high awareness that allows him to get around screens and cut off driving/passing lanes.

Of course, this is all pre-injury/high school performance, but he's a really smart, hard-working kid who has amazing athleticism and the necessary length/strength to be successful in the NBA... With the right coach, there's no reason this kid can't be a star (assuming the back injury doesn't linger and derail his career)... I guarantee Carlisle would absolutely love Porter, especially since he's known as a humble, high-character guy with natural leadership ability -- very similar to DSJ in that regard (they both had good upbringings, which helps).
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Old 03-10-2018, 01:07 PM   #925
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Why? It wasn't a dirty play. Happens all the time. I'm no Grayson fan, but that wasn't a flagrant foul.
Taken in isolation its not the worst Ive seen I agree. But as part of his larger body of work it just continues to show that rather than playing ball hes initiating contact with guys in a way that is not for competition. Hes not going for the ball. Hes not running back and playing D. Hes not even trying to set a pick ( where a hip check might happen otherwise). I personally think its in his nature somewhere to just try to get away with stuff like that and its only a matter of time before he hurts someone or someone gets really pissed at him and rearranges his face.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:25 PM   #926
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Sure, Porter takes a lot of "less than ideal outside shots," but his key strength is that he can actually hit them -- the kid is a dominant shooter from pretty much anywhere on the floor and can create his own shot with jabs, fakes, step-backs, etc... Sure, he doesn't have the greatest handles, but he's excellent off the ball, which somewhat negates his only real weakness (especially if a guy like DSJ is setting him up). He has soft hands, which makes him great in catch & shoot situations, but he's also effective at making plays off the bounce or off lobs in slashing situations, using his length and athleticism to wreck shop above the rim. He's comfortable streaking up the floor in transition and deadly in space, which would make him an ideal running mate for Dennis... In addition to is natural scoring abilities, Porter is a strong rebounder with great anticipation and footwork (which also makes him a decent interior defender when it comes to timing blocks), as well as an effective perimeter defender with high awareness that allows him to get around screens and cut off driving/passing lanes.

Of course, this is all pre-injury/high school performance, but he's a really smart, hard-working kid who has amazing athleticism and the necessary length/strength to be successful in the NBA... With the right coach, there's no reason this kid can't be a star (assuming the back injury doesn't linger and derail his career)... I guarantee Carlisle would absolutely love Porter, especially since he's known as a humble, high-character guy with natural leadership ability -- very similar to DSJ in that regard (they both had good upbringings, which helps).
Thank you for taking the time.

Most of what you said I can see. The only exception is the athleticism. I'm not sure I see it. Would of been nice to see him play college ball. One year older, more set plays, etc.

As you said, he can shoot. That is clear. I'm just not sure if he can create his own shot consistently, and make an impact on both sides of the court. Right now I am torn between him for Mikal Bridges assuming we all feel good about Porter's health.
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Old 03-10-2018, 04:15 PM   #927
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My revised Board

TIER ONE
1) DeAndre Ayton
2) Marvin Bagley - has been more consistent than Doncic; much is said about his outside shot but he's shooting 37% on two tries a game so far
3) Luka Doncic - advanced offensive game but wonder if his athleticism limits his ceiling

TIER TWO
4) Jaren Jackson Jr. - over Bamba because of range and has stayed healthier
5) Mikal Bridges
6) Michael Porter Jr. - love his offensive game and attitude, worry about his health and explosiveness
7) Mo Bamba

TIER THREE
8) Wendell Carter - steady and unexciting, probably better than he's made out to be
9) Gary Trent Jr. - has a well-defined skillset and consistent stroke; moves well without the ball -- reminds me of Klay Thompson but could just be another Wayne Ellington

TIER FOUR
10) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander -
11) Miles Bridges - upside depends on continued development as passer, shooter, and defender, only reason he's not off my board is he shows up in big games
12) Kevin Knox - similar issues as Bridges but with a lower floor


OFF MY BOARD
-Trae Young - redundant and game doesn't translate IMO
-Collin Sexton - redundant and his tunnel vision has convinced me he won't be any better than Elfrid Payton or Eric Bledsoe
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Old 03-11-2018, 10:53 AM   #928
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Here's the thing with Bagley & those #s...

That 30 & 14 he put up vs Virginia happened primarily vs guys 6-7 & one 6-10 White stiff who managed 3 rebs in 31 min & has a career avg of essentially 3 pts & 4 rebs, oh and they had a 6-9 soph come in & play 10 min in that game too. Nothing like the size & physicality Bagley will see in the NBA.

vs Florida St, Bagley's 32 & 21 came while he faced one guy over 6-9 (most of the Seminoles are 6-8 & under), and that was a 7 foot Freshman who managed 2 rebs in 13 min.

vs Florida, Bagley's 30 & 15 was compiled vs one guy over 6-9, a 6-11 stiff from Australia, who posted 0 rebs & 3 fouls in 7 min. In fact, only 2 of the 8 other Gators to see the floor were over 6-6, and they only played 25 min (a 6-9 Junior) & 16 min (a 6-8 Soph) respectively.

vs Texas, Bagley's 34 & 15, I watched these highlights on FrankieVision, and yes it's the first time he did anything in one of these games you've listed vs a big with an NBA future, in Mo Bamba, but this was early in the season & Bamba played very poorly defensively. Actually it's a good example of why I'm not high on Mo Bamba. He gets pushed around, plays out of position, falls asleep on the floor & misses assignments, and the last thing in the world Mo Bamba is, is a bruiser, somebody that's going to drop his ass, plant it into an opponent & BOX OUT. Bamba stands upright like a statue & tries to use his insane reach on every rebound. To Bagley's credit, he abused Bamba in this game badly. But, I'd like to see Bagley do it vs Ayton or a credible NBA body that bangs in the low post for rebounds. That's not Mo Bamba.

His 25 & 10 in his first game vs Elon, did not face a single opponent over 6-8, which makes his 0 blocks in 29 minutes look worse

vs Michigan St, he gets poked in the right eye by his own teammate w/ 10 min to go in the 1st half & sits the rest of the game. Smh. Watching the replay, it looked like he should of missed a few minutes & that's it. 10 min 4 pts 6 rebs vs real competition

24 & 8 vs Furman, no opponents over 6-8. One 6-8 starter, a Junior who played 24 min, one 6-8 reserve, a Soph who played 15 min, a 6-7 reserve, a Freshman who played 19 min, and a 6-7 reserve, a Senior who played 9 min, everyone else on the roster is 6-5 & under. Bagley w/ 1 block in 29 minutes.

18 & 15 vs Portland St, came vs mostly guys 6-8 & under, outside of a 7-1 Senior who played 9 min & a 6-10 Sophomore who played 2 min.

23 & 10 vs Indiana, came vs all guys 6-8 & under, excepts for a 6-10 Sophomore who played 21 min and had 16 & 5... Bagley by the way 0 blocks in 38 minutes vs all undersized opponents

19 & 12 vs South Dakota, one guy, a 6-10 Junior, the other forward for S Dakota is 6-6, the two forwards that came off the bench, 6-7 & 6-8. One reserve forward 6-9 who played 3 minutes. Essentially, one 6-10 guy & all 6-8 & under opponents.

21 & 11 vs St Francis (PA), again one guy who is 6-10 (Sophomore) played 24 min, a 6-9 (Freshman) reserve played 14 min, and then everyone outside of a 6-8 Senior who played 6 min was 6-5 or under. Bagley with 0 blocks in 26 min.

15 & 12 vs Boston College, Bagley played 40 minutes, he faced one opponent who was 6-11, a Soph who played 28 min, and one one opponent who was 6-10, a Soph who played 18 min, the rest of BC's squad that day: a 6-8 Fresh who played 37 min, a 6-6 Junior who played 38 min, a 6-5 Junior who played 40 min, a 6-1 Soph who played 36 min, and a 6-7 Freshman who played 3 min. Bagley 1 block in 40 min vs this undersized group.

18 & 7 vs Evansville, faced no opponent over 6-9.

31 & 10 vs NC State, to my knowledge the first time he did something (excluding vs Texas) vs an opponent with an opposing big projected for the NBA in NC State's 7-0 Sophomore Center Omer Yurtseven. Have to give credit here. 11/14 FGs 10 rebs 4 blks in 38 min, and Yurtseven played 29 min. Although, the next tallest Wolfpack player is 6-8.

16 & 15 vs Pitt, tallest opponent a 6-10 Freshman who played 15 min, a 6-9 Soph who played 23 min, a 6-9 Freshman who played 6 min, and a 6-7 Freshman who played 8 min, everyone else for Pitt was 6-6 or under. Bagley w/ 0 blocks vs this group in 29 min.

30 & 11 vs Wake Forest, no one is talking about them as future NBA prospects, but Bagley did post this vs a 7-1 Junior who played 17 min, and a 7-0 Freshman who played 17 min. Everyone else on Wake is 6-8 or under, but legitimate size in this game.

13 & 12 vs Miami, Hurricanes 6-11 Sophomore Dewan Huell is someone I have seen projected in the 2nd round of this year's draft or early in next year's mocks. He posted 18 & 13 in 32 min in this game btw, also Miami had a 6-10 Junior play 12 min in this game. The rest of the Hurricanes in this game are 6-7 or under. Bagley with 0 blocks in 37 min.

20 & 7 vs Pitt, Bagley plays the same 29 min as he did in the first matchup, but this time the 6-10 Freshman stats & plays 26 min and then the 6-9 Sophomore plays 26 min, the 6-9 Freshman plays 4 min, and the 6-7 Freshman plays 6 min. Bagley with less than half the boards facing more height.

16 & 11 vs Wake Forest, this time the 7-1, 280 lb Junior plays 30 min & goes 9 for 9 from the floor while posting 18 & 12 (with 6 offensive rebs) and Bagley recording 0 blocks in 30 min, and the 7-0, 215 lb Freshman plays 25 min. Bagley's scoring nearly cut in half when Wake's bigs increase their playing time.

12 & 8 vs Notre Dame, tallest opponent a 6-10 Senior who played 27 min, a 6-9 Soph who played 25 min, a 6-8 Junior who played 19 min, and everyone else on the roster 6-7 or under. Wendell Carter Jr only played 26 min in this game, only taking 8 FGA & recording only 7 rebs. Bagley played 34 min and shot just 4/14 FGs vs an undersized team with no future NBA prospects.

19 & 7 vs St Johns, tallest opponent a 6-11 205 lb Junior who played 37 min, a 6-9 Senior who played 2 min, and everyone else for St John's is 6-7 & under. Bagley with 0 blocks in 34 min.

15 & 16 vs North Carolina in 39 min, tallest opponent a 6-11 240 lb Freshman who played 4 min, a 6-9 215 lb Freshman who played 12 min, and everyone else for UNC is 6-8 & under. People talk about 6-8 Junior Luke Maye as a potential NBA draft pick, but I don't think he can even carry Tyler Hansbrough's jock strap, so that isn't saying much.
Ran across an excellent tweet today that provided a simple counter to this rant...

@mikegrib8: Ppl say "who cares if Bagley had 33/17? it was against 6'5 Bonzie Colson" or "Who cares if Ayton had 32/16 or w/e he had against fucking GG Goloman"... But to me it's important trait to be able to dominate the match ups that you are supposed to dominate.
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:13 AM   #929
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Ran across an excellent tweet today that provided a simple counter to this rant...

@mikegrib8: Ppl say "who cares if Bagley had 33/17? it was against 6'5 Bonzie Colson" or "Who cares if Ayton had 32/16 or w/e he had against fucking GG Goloman"... But to me it's important trait to be able to dominate the match ups that you are supposed to dominate.
Well we all know Magnum was a hot air troll who posted like a Russian bot on facebook. His entire aim was to create controversy.

But the flack against putting up big stats is also highly driven by advanced stat people. We live in an age where no amount of big stats means anything if it doesn't measure up against true winning percentage, or who you play against, or plus/minus, or win shares, or per 48, or per 36, or blah blah blah.

Anyone who has actually been on a basketball court in a 5v5 situation knows that putting up 33/17 is damn impressive. The fact that he put up 19/13 a day later in a back-to-back situation is equally impressive.
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:25 AM   #930
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Gonna try something new with my board -- here's my best guess on how it will look in 5 years when everybody is "redrafting" the 2018 lottery...

01) Michael Porter
02) DeAndre Ayton
03) Mikal Bridges
04) Jaren Jackson Jr.
05) Mitchell Robinson
06) Luka Doncic
07) Shake Milton
08) Marvin Bagley
09) Miles Bridges
10) Keita Bates-Diop
11) Wendell Carter
12) Daniel Gafford
13) Zhaire Smith
14) Mohamed Bamba
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:48 AM   #931
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Any good/reliable draft boards other than draft.net? Irks me to no end that draftxpress no longer exists...
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:51 AM   #932
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Any good/reliable draft boards other than draft.net? Irks me to no end that draftxpress no longer exists...
I'm rolling with Tankathon... Draft.net is garbage these days.
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Old 03-11-2018, 06:50 PM   #933
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Good win for the bulls against the Hawks. I dont think we are going to outtank the Hawks anyway, so i prefer to have the Bulls sitting at 23 wins...
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:53 AM   #934
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Part of me is like, hey, it's ok if we drop a bit in the draft because Mikal Bridges.

Then I'm like, hey, Bridges is playing so well that he will rise in the draft.

Ugh...
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:41 PM   #935
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#9 here we go again

Cant even get Bridges without two other teams reaching for PGs or crap
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:01 PM   #936
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#9 here we go again

Cant even get Bridges without two other teams reaching for PGs or crap
Ugh, if we end up with Wendell Carter then I'm gonna be depressed...
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:09 PM   #937
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It's actually kind of funny that we're the only team out of the bottom 8 or 9 whose owner came out and said we need to lose, while at the same time being the only one of those teams not actually trying to lose.

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Old 03-13-2018, 09:36 PM   #938
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:07 PM   #939
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Ugh, if we end up with Wendell Carter then I'm gonna be depressed...
Hate to say it, but Carter might be a prize at this point...
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:58 AM   #940
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Mavs are stuck in mediocrity with a Pick in Range 7-10.

Huge Chance for a quick rebuild wasted. Well lets hope for the 2019 Draft...
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:29 AM   #941
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My revised Board


-Collin Sexton - redundant and his tunnel vision has convinced me he won't be any better than Elfrid Payton or Eric Bledsoe
Thank you. I dont get the hype. And Ive watched a ton of bama's games (Im from there). He's flashy, but he will not sustain what hes been doing in the NBA.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:56 AM   #942
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I don't understand top 10 hype for Sexton, but can definitely see the upside. 6'3 PG with 7' 0 wingspan. He's shown the ability to score, shoot, and defend. He's a project just like most of these guys, but I see him falling 10-15 range. Still lotto but not top 10.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:59 AM   #943
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I'd love for whatever eventual teams are ahead of us in the draft to become enamored with Young or Sexton.

March Madness is going to be a lot of fun this year.
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:07 PM   #944
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SI has us taking MPJ at #7, which might be the best-case scenario at this point...

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/03/14/nb...low_twitter_si
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:13 PM   #945
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Thats a stupid mock going for team need etc...no one is going to pick Carter over Porter
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:30 PM   #946
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Thats a stupid mock going for team need etc...no one is going to pick Carter over Porter
I dunno, the Cavs are the only team picking high that might have to consider need over potential, seeing as how they're trying to "win now" with LeBron... I have a feeling that even a healthy Porter takes a year or two to develop, seeing as how he missed college entirely.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:13 PM   #947
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I dunno, the Cavs are the only team picking high that might have to consider need over potential, seeing as how they're trying to "win now" with LeBron... I have a feeling that even a healthy Porter takes a year or two to develop, seeing as how he missed college entirely.
If Lebron stays... and if he stays wouldn't they be better off trading the pick for an all star rather than drafting Carter?
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:49 AM   #948
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Magic and Kings with unexpected wins and tonight playing Bulls-Grizz. Top-5 dream back alive

And yeah, the Cavs are going to pick BPA in june and not "best fit with Lebron if he stays"

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Old 03-15-2018, 09:26 AM   #949
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Magic and Kings with unexpected wins and tonight playing Bulls-Grizz. Top-5 dream back alive

And yeah, the Cavs are going to pick BPA in june and not "best fit with Lebron if he stays"
The most Bron thing to do would be to tell them to draft Player X for fit and then bolt. I think he'll find a way to get to Houston. As will marshamallow and wheelchair wade
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:27 AM   #950
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This would be such an epic draft result with all these blatant tank commanders...

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Old 03-15-2018, 09:27 AM   #951
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Magic and Kings with unexpected wins and tonight playing Bulls-Grizz. Top-5 dream back alive

And yeah, the Cavs are going to pick BPA in june and not "best fit with Lebron if he stays"
Back alive if we can get back to losing. I could see the Knicks essentially losing out the rest of the way and we are only two games up on them. And we have Brooklyn coming up. A must lose.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:39 AM   #952
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Nets games is for both teams a B2B, i have my hopes that we are dropping this one and DSJ doesnt play because of knee soreness etc. Our games in LA and Orlando (ding ding ding) are also B2B

At the end of the season the Nets and Bulls are playing each other twice in two days. So solid chances at least one of them ends up behind us...

Edit: Magic have with start of next week a very interesting schedule: Suns-Nets-Bulls-Hawks-Knicks-Mavs in a row

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Old 03-15-2018, 01:53 PM   #953
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And there goes Trae...solid game but his teammates were trash. I hope a team picking in front of us is taking the bait

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Old 03-15-2018, 02:10 PM   #954
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And there goes Trae...solid game but his teammates were trash. I hope a team picking in front of us is taking the bait
His stat line looked good, but his shot selection in the 2nd half was questionable (mainly the 3's from 35ft out with plenty of time on the shot clock when they had the lead). Agreed, hopefully a PG needy team saw enough to select him above us.
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:12 PM   #955
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And what do you think of Daniel Gafford of Arkansas? He has improved his game a lot.
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Old 03-15-2018, 05:12 PM   #956
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And what do you think of Daniel Gafford of Arkansas? He has improved his game a lot.
He is improving overall, but he has no range and still needs serious work on his rebounding. Really good shot blocker though. A nice prospect in the 15-25 range.

Seems like we kinda have that in Powell without the shot blocking.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:46 PM   #957
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@nbaayy: grizzlies and bulls just demonstrated how to tank masterfully.

24.6 seconds on the clock, grizzlies 110 bulls 109

bulls ball

bulls dribbled the clock all the way down to 1.8 seconds to take a contested 3

grizzlies fouled the 3pt shooter

bulls win
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:02 PM   #958
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@nbaayy: grizzlies and bulls just demonstrated how to tank masterfully.

24.6 seconds on the clock, grizzlies 110 bulls 109

bulls ball

bulls dribbled the clock all the way down to 1.8 seconds to take a contested 3

grizzlies fouled the 3pt shooter

bulls win
Good... We're not gonna catch Memphis at this point, so I'm glad Chicago won and gave us a little breathing room.

Everyone else in the chase to the bottom lost today.
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:01 AM   #959
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Fine them
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:31 AM   #960
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And what do you think of Daniel Gafford of Arkansas? He has improved his game a lot.
Love him, but I do think he'd benefit tremendously from another year in school. However, if he is projected lottery, he's gotta go. I type this as I wear my Arkansas gear waiting for the game today.

Gafford is incredible by all accounts, on and off the court. He is incredibly athletic and can finish around the rim while providing solid defense from the interior. He needs to work on his back to the basket game, mid-range, and perhaps further out to take that next leap. Everything else is there for a modern big man, in my opinion.
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