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Old 12-16-2020, 12:57 AM   #1
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Default Luka vs Dirk offseason preparation to stay in shape

Doncic on his conditioning:

ďI mean, people on Twitter say every stuff ... But, itís true Iím not in my best shape. I will get there for sure. But, you know, Iíve never been a muscular guy, so what can I say?Ē


I think we all love Luka but one thing I've noticed since he's entered the league is that he doesn't seem to have the same mentality as Dirk in regards to staying in shape.

I understand he's young and he things can change as he gets older but guys like LeBron and Giannis seem to be tireless workers who dedicate themselves to staying in peak shape.
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Old 12-16-2020, 02:00 AM   #2
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There's a great piece on Luka that was written before he came to the NBA, and I remember anecdote of the reporter riding around Los Angeles or somewhere with Luka, and Luka mentioning offhand how much he loved Five Guys burgers and fries. When I read that I immediately recalled reading that in 2011 when the Mavs swept the two-time defending champion Lakers in the second round, Dirk celebrated by eating one slice of pizza.

Very different people. I hope Luka develops the insane work ethic that a guy like Dirk had, but I'm honestly not sure it will ever happen. He might just not be wired that way. At least when it comes to his physical conditioning, because clearly he has great work ethic in terms of working on his game. But in terms of diet and cardio etc... it might always be an issue for him. Like Barkley back in the day. He seems to prefer video games to the gym.
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Old 12-16-2020, 05:29 AM   #3
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There's a great piece on Luka that was written before he came to the NBA, and I remember anecdote of the reporter riding around Los Angeles or somewhere with Luka, and Luka mentioning offhand how much he loved Five Guys burgers and fries. When I read that I immediately recalled reading that in 2011 when the Mavs swept the two-time defending champion Lakers in the second round, Dirk celebrated by eating one slice of pizza.

Very different people. I hope Luka develops the insane work ethic that a guy like Dirk had, but I'm honestly not sure it will ever happen. He might just not be wired that way. At least when it comes to his physical conditioning, because clearly he has great work ethic in terms of working on his game. But in terms of diet and cardio etc... it might always be an issue for him. Like Barkley back in the day. He seems to prefer video games to the gym.
In a autobiography from Barkley back in the 90s he wrote that he would eat 2 pizzas a day, but he still managed to be one of the most dominant players in his era. I wouldn't be too worried about what Luka wants to eat, yet.
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:37 AM   #4
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Dirk was recently talking during an interview about work ethic and diet. He basically said that you start to get more serious about when you've been in the league for a while. Expecting Luka to be like Dirk, Lebron or Giannis is just setting yourself up for a letdown. Dirk and Lebron are old. Lebron is a genetic freak. Giannis is as well, but it seems like he understood this was his next steps. At least Luka doesn't have to rely on raw athleticism nearly as heavily as Giannis and Lebron do, he has so many ways to contribute.

I think he literally needs more heartbreak and adversity before he decides that diet and being super fit is what his next step will be in achieving his ultimate goals. Him slowing down in the 4th quarter of many games last year may not be enough given the fact that we were over-achieving with that roster. He's a kid still and sometimes we have to learn the hard way during those years.
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:45 AM   #5
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Dirk was recently talking during an interview about work ethic and diet. He basically said that you start to get more serious about when you've been in the league for a while. Expecting Luka to be like Dirk, Lebron or Giannis is just setting yourself up for a letdown. Dirk and Lebron are old. Lebron is a genetic freak. Giannis is as well, but it seems like he understood this was his next steps. At least Luka doesn't have to rely on raw athleticism nearly as heavily as Giannis and Lebron do, he has so many ways to contribute.

I think he literally needs more heartbreak and adversity before he decides that diet and being super fit is what his next step will be in achieving his ultimate goals. Him slowing down in the 4th quarter of many games last year may not be enough given the fact that we were over-achieving with that roster. He's a kid still and sometimes we have to learn the hard way during those years.
all of this

He's been younger and better than most everyone he's come across in his career thus far
no reason to change and he's still so young and his body is still fully maturing

dirk is a hard standard to hold anyone to - his struggles and his dedication and work ethic are all part of what makes him so real and beloved to many fans.

Luka may have to indeed hit a huge bump in the road or hit a wall to take that next step of diet/exercise modification. if/when that happens i'm confident he'd respond appropriately. he definitely has that inner fire to succeed and overcome but it's all part of his growth as a person and player.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:09 AM   #6
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Luka is still young. Dirk wasn’t super strict about his diet when he was young and entered the league. He would be out drinking in the bars around Dallas during the season. Hopefully Luka will get better as he matures.
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:18 PM   #7
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Old 12-26-2020, 01:16 AM   #8
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Luka Doncic has to be better
Josh had an entire column about the trickle down effect of Luka not starting the game well for the Mavericks. But it’s worth bringing up again because with Doncic’s lackluster first half, Dallas was down just enough to where there’s not much more to add.

He’s not in good enough shape and it’s clear by the end of his time on the floor when shots are short and he’s frustrated with his own play. It’s a thing that’s hard to dance around because there’s not a great answer for why he’s not in good shape after having been in great shape in Orlando.

When playing really good teams, Luka Doncic has to be a lot better for the Mavericks to win. Until Kristaps Porzingis comes back, there are going to be games where this may not be very fun.
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Old 12-26-2020, 11:08 AM   #9
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Luka Doncic has to be better
Josh had an entire column about the trickle down effect of Luka not starting the game well for the Mavericks. But itís worth bringing up again because with Doncicís lackluster first half, Dallas was down just enough to where thereís not much more to add.

Heís not in good enough shape and itís clear by the end of his time on the floor when shots are short and heís frustrated with his own play. Itís a thing thatís hard to dance around because thereís not a great answer for why heís not in good shape after having been in great shape in Orlando.

When playing really good teams, Luka Doncic has to be a lot better for the Mavericks to win. Until Kristaps Porzingis comes back, there are going to be games where this may not be very fun.
What he's going thru now and possibly most of this season is the frustration and heartbreak I referred to. I agree he has to be in better shape but some people need to feel it and go thru it to associate his fitness to a big part of his growth and success. You can't expect to get fit during the season. Its almost constant work year round. I think we are right in the early stages of him learning the hard way.
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Old 12-26-2020, 11:20 AM   #10
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What he's going thru now and possibly most of this season is the frustration and heartbreak I referred to. I agree he has to be in better shape but some people need to feel it and go thru it to associate his fitness to a big part of his growth and success. You can't expect to get fit during the season. Its almost constant work year round. I think we are right in the early stages of him learning the hard way.
I agree. I was just hoping that what he experienced vs the Clippers with Harrell and Morris would be enough motivation to come back better than ever but it appears "the shot", the top 5 ranking, and some of the mvp favorite talk has gone to his head a little and he didn't feel compelled to get into great shape. This is also that reminder that he's 21 and still may lack some of the maturity and discipline to stay fit year round even though he's been a professional since he was 15/16 years old.

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Old 12-26-2020, 03:06 PM   #11
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The good thing is that once you are a superstar, and there is like 50 million dollars riding on you being at your best possible level every year, you kind of have to do it, and Luka is clearly going in that direction. I can really only find one example where an absolute superstar struggled with that aspect, Shaq. And I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have done that if he was a perimeter player (because he simply couldn't have, there were too much at stake in status and money).
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Old 12-26-2020, 04:28 PM   #12
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I agree. I was just hoping that what he experienced vs the Clippers with Harrell and Morris would be enough motivation to come back better than ever but it appears "the shot", the top 5 ranking, and some of the mvp favorite talk has gone to his head a little and he didn't feel compelled to get into great shape. This is also that reminder that he's 21 and still may lack some of the maturity and discipline to stay fit year round even though he's been a professional since he was 15/16 years old.
Yea. The NBA is another level of fitness. If he does it again next year, we have a problem.
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Old 12-26-2020, 05:39 PM   #13
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Hopefully that embarrassment last night will help drill it into his head. Great players are fierce competitors and it absolutely kills them to lose.
And with KP's physical issues, Luka will need to pick up the slack if this team wants to compete on a nightly basis.

I'm becoming a little concerned about this season.
That performance last night wouldn't have beaten any NBA team.

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Old 12-26-2020, 06:50 PM   #14
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Hopefully that embarrassment last night will help drill it into his head. Great players are fierce competitors and it absolutely kills them to lose.
And with KP's physical issues, Luka will need to pick up the slack if this team wants to compete on a nightly basis.

I'm becoming a little concerned about this season.
That performance last night wouldn't have beaten any NBA team.
I think what worries me the most is this was a shortened offseason.

Imagine if it was longer and what effect would that have been on his conditioning?

Yes we can say he's still young he's just 21 but how old was Giannis and LeBron when they entered the league?

They were working out from day 1 since they entered the league. That is called self motivation.

Is Luka wired like those two guys probably not but maybe it's time for him to start being wired that way if he expects to carry this franchise long term down the road.
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Old 12-26-2020, 07:02 PM   #15
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Dirk was recently talking during an interview about work ethic and diet. He basically said that you start to get more serious about when you've been in the league for a while. Expecting Luka to be like Dirk, Lebron or Giannis is just setting yourself up for a letdown. Dirk and Lebron are old. Lebron is a genetic freak. Giannis is as well, but it seems like he understood this was his next steps. At least Luka doesn't have to rely on raw athleticism nearly as heavily as Giannis and Lebron do, he has so many ways to contribute.

I think he literally needs more heartbreak and adversity before he decides that diet and being super fit is what his next step will be in achieving his ultimate goals. Him slowing down in the 4th quarter of many games last year may not be enough given the fact that we were over-achieving with that roster. He's a kid still and sometimes we have to learn the hard way during those years.
Nailed it. Being 20/21 years old and thinking back to him playing since he was a teen, diet and nutrition has never been a roadblock for him and his success. It will take a few seasons before he takes it seriously. It will eventually click when he self reflects and says Im ready to take the next step in being a consistent top player.
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Old 12-26-2020, 07:07 PM   #16
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I think what worries me the most is this was a shortened offseason.

Imagine if it was longer and what effect would that have been on his conditioning?

Yes we can say he's still young he's just 21 but how old was Giannis and LeBron when they entered the league?

They were working out from day 1 since they entered the league. That is called self motivation.

Is Luka wired like those two guys probably not but maybe it's time for him to start being wired that way if he expects to carry this franchise long term down the road.
I think the shortened offseason had the opposite effect. Looking at the calendar thinking, okay we're reporting in 10 weeks. I was in really good shape for the clippers so I wont be that rusty in December. Young mentality thinking youre in good enough shape to skate by with a short offseason.
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Old 12-26-2020, 07:31 PM   #17
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I liked what Cuban said

Basically that Luka got himself into his top shape before the March shutdown. He went back to Slovenia and it was hard to stay in shape. Most athletes let themselves go a little and then with a month to go, work back to top shape. With the season having such short notice, Luka was just caught flat footed.

It seems to track
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Old 12-28-2020, 06:21 AM   #18
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I think the fact that they have taken two very different routes to superstardom means they see and approach their training very differently.

Dirk had a very rough first year and slowly progressed in the next 2-3 years, to grow into an All-Star and then a true franchise player. It did not come naturally to him at first, and he knew he had to work hard if he wanted to improve as a player.

Luka was a superstar arguably the moment he stepped on the court in the NBA and was an MVP candidate by his second year. There is no way that he can have the same maniacal dedication yet that Dirk showed.

As other have said, he probably will need a setback or two, a heartbreak, a season where he doesn't reach his goals, to change his focus.

However, we also need to say that:
a) as dedicated as Dirk was to improving his game, improving his diet is something he focused much later in his career. Early Dirk would often hit the bars with Nash in Dallas.
b) I don't think Luka is in any way less dedicated to improving his game. He'll learn more about keeping his body in shape as his career progresses.
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Old 01-02-2021, 05:08 PM   #19
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I think the fact that they have taken two very different routes to superstardom means they see and approach their training very differently.

Dirk had a very rough first year and slowly progressed in the next 2-3 years, to grow into an All-Star and then a true franchise player. It did not come naturally to him at first, and he knew he had to work hard if he wanted to improve as a player.

Luka was a superstar arguably the moment he stepped on the court in the NBA and was an MVP candidate by his second year. There is no way that he can have the same maniacal dedication yet that Dirk showed.

As other have said, he probably will need a setback or two, a heartbreak, a season where he doesn't reach his goals, to change his focus.

However, we also need to say that:
a) as dedicated as Dirk was to improving his game, improving his diet is something he focused much later in his career. Early Dirk would often hit the bars with Nash in Dallas.
b) I don't think Luka is in any way less dedicated to improving his game. He'll learn more about keeping his body in shape as his career progresses.
I'm glad you said these things, because I feel like there's misconception about Luka. People have gotten the idea that because he showed up out of shape that he lacks work ethic or that he thinks he can just coast on his talent. I don't think a lack of work ethic is or ever will be Luka's problem. Everything that we know about Luka suggests that he's a pure basketball junkie and is constantly working on his game. It's just as you suggest, he has to learn that improving his body is every bit as important as improving his game. I think he's similar to Jokic in that regard. It's never been a problem for him before now, so now he's learning the hard way how important conditioning is.

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Old 01-02-2021, 07:07 PM   #20
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I'm glad you said these things, because I feel like there's misconception about Luka. People have gotten the idea that because he showed up out of shape that he lacks work ethic or that he thinks he can just coast on his talent. I don't think a lack of work ethic is or ever will be Luka's problem. Everything that we know about Luka suggests that he's a pure basketball junkie and is constantly working on his game. It's just as you suggest, he has to learn that improving his body is every bit as important as improving his game. I think he's similar to Jokic in that regard. It's never been a problem for him before now, so now he's learning the hard way how important conditioning is.
I think its totally fair to say that conditioning is a huge part of basketball at this level. Idk about him being a junkie, because to me that would absolutely include fitness and conditioning. But yes, he is learning the hard way.
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:07 AM   #21
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I think its totally fair to say that conditioning is a huge part of basketball at this level. Idk about him being a junkie, because to me that would absolutely include fitness and conditioning. But yes, he is learning the hard way.
He's a junkie. Everything I've ever seen, heard, or read about him suggests he's one of those people that's obsessed with basketball. He's never not working on his game. He has apparently been that way since he was old enough to walk. He's the kind of guy, for example, that will practice a jillion jumpshots immediately after the game when he has a bad shooting night. He's not like Shaq, for instance, who showed up out of shape routinely because he was busy making terrible movies and rap albums and hadn't touched a basketball in months, or Harden who goes to the strip club immediately after getting knocked out of the playoffs.

Yes, conditioning is part of basketball at this level. That's pretty much what I just said. But it hasn't been to this point in his career because he hasn't ever needed it to be. He's figuring that part out now.

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Old 01-03-2021, 02:20 AM   #22
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FreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond reputeFreshJive has a reputation beyond repute
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Originally Posted by Murphy3 View Post
yep
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