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View Poll Results: Would you trade this year's first for Kawhi?
In a heartbeat! 2 10.53%
Only if he signs an extension first... 9 47.37%
With his injuries? Pass. 8 42.11%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-16-2018, 06:39 PM   #1
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Default Would you trade this year's first for Kawhi?

Very simple: our first for Leonard, straight-up.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:43 PM   #2
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I voted "injuries", but it's more that he has added a bunch of attitude issues to his resume imho. The whole situation is just weird, especially since it's the Spurs we#re talking about.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:55 PM   #3
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I'm in. I wouldn't need an extension to buy in, but I would want to feel good about the prospects of a resign.

As far as injuries, yeah he would have to clear medicals etc. But I see no reason that his particular injury would be something to fear long term.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:59 PM   #4
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I find that developing your own players is a much more fulfilling path to success versus getting another team's star. I just can't view Leonard as a Mav after being on the hated Spurs. And if Leonard isn't getting along with Pop, then he sure as hell isn't going to get along with Rick. These are the two best but most polarizing to players coaches in the league.

Plus, even Leonard doesn't catapult us back into contention. If the Mavs were able to make some miracle moves with it, then I'd be down.
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:50 PM   #5
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Yes. Give me a sure superstar over potential any day of the week.

Edit: he has to agree to an extension.

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Old 04-16-2018, 08:24 PM   #6
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With an agreement for an extension: hell yes
With no extension: hell no

Injuries doesnt matter but he is going to be a FA in 2019, he is from LA and the Lakers are going to make a run at him. So for a potential one year rental im not trading the pick.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:50 PM   #7
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This whole season from Kawhi has put a bad taste in my mouth. I get hes making sure of his future, but the mystery around it is bothersome. Not to mention before this, he has a habit of missing games. 66, 64, 72, 74, 9. I dont have reason to believe this is his last semi serious injury. I wouldnt do it.

We're on a different wavelength in drafting guys near the top of the draft and developing a core with DSJ. We have Barnes, whose game is somewhat similar to Kawhi, and I like our direction right now.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:57 PM   #8
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Kawahi doesn't put us into contention. We've tried getting players to surround Dirk with and it failed. I don't see Kawahi being able to do much better in that regard. We committed to drafting quality players and we have cap space. Don't change strategy half-way through.

Now a team like Cleveland that already has Lebron and KLove, it makes perfect sense for them to trade their pick and maybe some sweetener to get those guys together. Those three guys would probably get quality vet players for the minimum to come play with them.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:10 PM   #9
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Kawahi doesn't put us into contention. We've tried getting players to surround Dirk with and it failed. I don't see Kawahi being able to do much better in that regard. We committed to drafting quality players and we have cap space. Don't change strategy half-way through.

wat?

Kawhi posted a 28/8/5/2 playoff average in 16-17 before Zaza took him out

Guy played on legimitate MVP level....

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../gamelog/2017/

Kawhi/DSJ/Barnes as core. We could even dump Powell and Wes and add another bigger FA....
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:51 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sefant77 View Post
wat?

Kawhi posted a 28/8/5/2 playoff average in 16-17 before Zaza took him out

Guy played on legimitate MVP level....

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../gamelog/2017/

Kawhi/DSJ/Barnes as core. We could even dump Powell and Wes and add another bigger FA....
I imagine we could dump Barnes too and get someone who doesn't play the same position as Kawhi.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:03 PM   #11
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I voted no. The injury combined with him being a Spur worries me. Not hatred for him being a Spur but just worry that there have been a lot of Spurs leave and not be quite what they were. If you trade for him and get an extension, obviously whatever his max would be, then you are trading for a 27yr old who had an injury that kept him off the floor an entire season basically and you haven't seen him play in a year. If you are wrong it could be a Parsons contract that weighs you down and ruins the rookie contract of DSJ and possibly sets the organization back a while.

I see no reason why he would want to agree to an extension btw, he will be a free agent soon and it's not like players are beating down our door to sign here so why would he want to extend with us before playing here? And I am 100% against trading for him as a rental with this pick.

In a way it's similar to the MPJ discussion. Except Kawhi is proven but will cost you max salary and MPJ is not proven but will be 7yrs younger and a rookie contract. Kawhi is the bigger risk, he is also the bigger reward. I'm just not willing to take the risk is all.

An added fyi- if we had the 8-10th pick I'd absolutely do this then since the players I rly like would all be gone likely. Not a (hopefully)top 5 pick though, just not worth the risk imo.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by sefant77 View Post
wat?

Kawhi posted a 28/8/5/2 playoff average in 16-17 before Zaza took him out

Guy played on legimitate MVP level....

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../gamelog/2017/

Kawhi/DSJ/Barnes as core. We could even dump Powell and Wes and add another bigger FA....
And in the last 3 regular season he's avg 20/6.5/2.8. Great one on one defense, but he doesnt elevate teammates and cannot pass. That core doesnt have us close to contending(fighting for 8 seed) and Kawhi and Barnes play very similarly.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:47 PM   #13
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Yes. Give me a sure superstar over potential any day of the week.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:55 PM   #14
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Kawhi wreaks of Rondo to me.
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Old 04-19-2018, 11:36 PM   #15
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Kawhi wreaks of Rondo to me.
I don't think he's one Rondo's level. Rondo had issues with other coaches in the past. Here he just ran into one with enormous fj balls to put him in his place... at the end of the bench.
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:27 PM   #16
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Never, never, never. It would be a terrible mistake. Keep the pick.
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:59 PM   #17
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Never, never, never. It would be a terrible mistake. Keep the pick.
You'd rather roll the dice on selecting the next Anthony Bennet or Johnny Flynn than trade the pick for Kawai?
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:25 AM   #18
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You'd rather roll the dice on selecting the next Anthony Bennet or Johnny Flynn than trade the pick for Kawai?
I think this draft is very different. You can't compare it. This time we must believe in youth.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:39 AM   #19
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I think this draft is very different. You can't compare it. This time we must believe in youth.
You can absolutely compare it. You can come compare any draft. Some of these guys are going to be busts and that's why I'll take a proven superstar over potential anyday of the week.
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Old 04-21-2018, 09:19 AM   #20
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You can absolutely compare it. You can come compare any draft. Some of these guys are going to be busts and that's why I'll take a proven superstar over potential anyday of the week.
The comparisons you drew were hardly considered the same level of talent as Ayton, Doncic, or Bagley. His point to you was that in the NBA, draft class quality is a very real consideration. We knew last year's draft was the best PG class maybe ever. This year's has 3-5 prospects that would have been top 2 picks last year. Your point is fair in that there is risk with any prospect, while someone like Kawhi has already demonstrated himself to be a superstar.

That said, I would trade pick it I felt any kind of positive about the ability to sign Kawhi and his health prospects were solid. I just don't think both of those considerations will come back positive.

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Old 04-21-2018, 12:21 PM   #21
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"One in the hand is worth two in the bush"... We already know Kawhi's upside -- he's a perennial MVP candidate when healthy. At best, one of these draft picks could end up as good as him, but most of these guys probably won't even come close. There are no clear-cut superstars in this draft -- you're pretty much rolling the dice on how high these players will peak.

That said, is Kawhi healthy? Is his attitude something that could be remedied by a change of scenery? Is he still capable of being a perennial MVP candidate? If the answers are yes, then you trade for him without hesitation. He's already what you hope your draft pick can become. Dude is 6 years older than Dennis, but it's not like their peaks can't overlap...Unfortunately, you can't answer any of these questions without watching him play, which means you'd have to part ways with that pick before you could find out what you currently have in Kawhi... And I wouldn't even bother trading for him unless he's going to sign an extension, since getting him as a one-year rental does absolutely nothing for our rebuild... So we're choosing between:

1) A perennial MVP candidate on a max deal who could get right back to kicking ass and taking names just as soon as he's healthy, but "getting healthy" might be a perpetual state for Leonard, which raises the potential for him to be another Chandler Parsons -- plus his attitude might actually suck, and he is a bit older than DSJ... If it works, we're only one or two pieces away from being a contender again (with good odds of making the playoffs next year)... If we whiff, it probably sets the rebuild back another 5-10 years.

2) A blank slate on a rookie deal whose upside could lie anywhere between LeBron James and Bernard James, but they're basically the same age as DSJ, and extremely low risk financially... If it works, two major pieces of our core are set for the next 5-10 years... If we whiff, it only sets the rebuild back a year or two, but we'll have to endure more tanking.

I dunno, looks like you're choosing between high risk/high reward and low risk/unknown reward... Maybe my opinion changes if the lottery balls conspire against us, or if news comes out that Kawhi is the healthiest he's been in years, but right now I'd probably pass on Leonard and trust the front office to rebuild this squad through the draft... We're already one foot in with Dennis, probably best to continue the process since betting wrong on Kawhi is going to hurt us a lot more than betting wrong on a draft pick -- not to mention there's always a chance that whoever we draft could end up being better than the current iteration of Leonard.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:02 PM   #22
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It's just a huge red flag if the Spurs actually start entertaining trade offers for him. That means it's Leonard who wants out...and guess what? That means he could do the very same thing to us. The last thing you want is a disgruntled superstar. To be disgruntled on a perennial contender is very strange.

I'd do it if he was the final piece to the puzzle, but he isn't.

And again, our division rival isn't going to be doing us any favors. It would cost an arm and a leg to get him if they'd even deal with us at all.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:10 PM   #23
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It's just a huge red flag if the Spurs actually start entertaining trade offers for him. That means it's Leonard who wants out...and guess what? That means he could do the very same thing to us. The last thing you want is a disgruntled superstar. To be disgruntled on a perennial contender is very strange.

I'd do it if he was the final piece to the puzzle, but he isn't.

And again, our division rival isn't going to be doing us any favors. It would cost an arm and a leg to get him if they'd even deal with us at all.
This.

Superstars aren’t guaranteed. They need a system. They need a good head on their shoulders. They may be sane and focused in one place and unhappy in another. They need to be healthy. There’s no guarantee that Kawhi would be a star for us or even want to play for us

It would be silly to say that he would 100% be a flop, but there are enough red flags about his health and personality that he’s FAR from a sure thing. All we need is to trade another draft pick for a star only for them to Rondo
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:14 AM   #24
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It's just a huge red flag if the Spurs actually start entertaining trade offers for him. That means it's Leonard who wants out...and guess what? That means he could do the very same thing to us. The last thing you want is a disgruntled superstar. To be disgruntled on a perennial contender is very strange.
Again, we just trade for him with an extension and medical clearance. If he agrees to sign the extension with us, he wants to be here. And he got the medical green light.

No one knows what happened with the Spurs. I just know that he got medical cleared by the Spurs but looked like shit when he came back. Maybe he thought the Spurs rushed him to save the season and risked his health with that...

Quote:
I'd do it if he was the final piece to the puzzle, but he isn't.
He would be a major step because with our cap situation we have 2019 and 2020 max cap space again and its just a much better sales pitch to other FA to join Kawhi/DSJ/Barnes/Rick...or in 2020 to join Kawhi/DSJ/2019 FA star...

Quote:
And again, our division rival isn't going to be doing us any favors. It would cost an arm and a leg to get him if they'd even deal with us at all.
They will go for the best value. If they dont trade him they probably know he ends up with the Lakers anyway. Dont see it relevant for them where in the west he ends up...

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Old 04-22-2018, 10:00 AM   #25
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I think if the Magic offered 5th pick and we offered 3rd pick they'd take the 5th pick. Other teams could be willing to offer a top 10 pick this year plus a player plus a future pick. Desperate smaller market teams who need to win. I think anyone in the West would be held to a kings ransom. I wouldn't hate the trade but I wouldn't do it personally either. I think there is something to be said for the Spurs organization never having an issue with players and they are one of the more cautious teams I think.

And to be fair he has missed now 151 games out of his 7 years. 73 of them came this year but that is still almost 80 games missed in 6 years. And allegedly part of the Spurs frustration is that he never likes to play with any sort of bruise, sprain, discomfort etc. Idk if that is true or not but that in conjunction with not seeing him play in over a year at full strength and his weird stuff going on with the Spurs med staff(which has never had an issue with any player before to my knowledge) doesn't make him a sure fire superstar in a trade. I wouldn't play either if I'm not 100% feeling right and if the Spurs did misdiagnose me so I'm not sure what to make of that. But there is something to be said for an organization which is always tight lipped to be venting their frustrations the way the Spurs have been. So again, I wouldn't hate it but I wouldn't love it either. I'd love it more if we traded Barnes for something that fit better in the event that we had a deal in place for Kawhi.

Now if we trade for Kawhi and sign Cousins(I rly don't like Cousins but with Kawhi I'd want to go full steam with getting the most talent possible and the odds of getting him go up significantly with Kawhi) and trade Barnes in a SnT for Gordon or maybe I'd even go for Ibaka if he was paired with Cousins. DSJ SG Kawhi Gordon/Ibaka Cousins. That is a team that can prolly do some damage. Not sure if it's possible to keep Matthews with the salaries unless we can trade Powell and others to free up room, with Kawhi and Cousins I'd love to have Wes still here honestly if possible. If it's not possible maybe we go for someone like Reddick for short term or Barton(prolly too expensive) and to a lesser extent KCP depending on exceptions and shit. I promise no illegal drugs were used during/before this post.

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Old 04-22-2018, 10:17 AM   #26
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And to be fair he has missed now 151 games out of his 7 years. 73 of them came this year but that is still almost 80 games missed in 6 years. And allegedly part of the Spurs frustration is that he never likes to play with any sort of bruise, sprain, discomfort etc.
Pssst....its the Spurs, a lot of these DNP were the usual rest and not an injury.

And last year in the playoffs i read that Kawhi wanted to play but the Spurs didnt let him...

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Old 04-22-2018, 10:30 AM   #27
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How many trades have the Mavs and Spurs had with each other in the last ten years? Fifteen years? Any?

Just thinking about a big rivals trade like that in recent memory. Let's examine Harden trade. Rockets gave OKC Martin, a 17-20 ppg scorer, Lamb, who was their first round pick that summer, TWO future firsts AND a second to get Harden.

Mavs will likely have to give the Spurs Barnes, this year's first AND a future first to get Leonard. Probably more. No thanks.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:44 AM   #28
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Mavs will likely have to give the Spurs Barnes, this year's first AND a future first to get Leonard. Probably more. No thanks.
If Kawhi doesnt pre-agree to an extension with the trade partner the Spurs are in big trouble to get any decent value at all.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:13 AM   #29
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If Kawhi doesnt pre-agree to an extension with the trade partner the Spurs are in big trouble to get any decent value at all.
This is me coming completely out of left field but...

It would seem the Cavs could put together an enticing trade offer AND feel good about resigning Kawhi IF they retain Lebron.

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Old 04-22-2018, 01:09 PM   #30
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Its just a way too huge gamble without an extension. Like i said Kawhi is a LA guy and the Lakers are going to run at him. This summer via trade or next summer in the FA.

And if George walks from OKC this summer, no one is taking the same gamble with Kawhi.

Cavs? Nets pick and Nance, thats pretty much the only value picks and contracts they got.

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