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View Poll Results: What will the result of the game be?
Mavs win by 20+ 0 0%
Mavs win by 10-19 1 12.50%
Mavs win by 1-9 5 62.50%
Mavs lose by 1-9 1 12.50%
Mavs lose by 10-19 0 0%
Mavs lose by 20+ 1 12.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-11-2020, 08:18 AM   #161
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WCS does not impact the results of this game, so I really don't care. Gobert eats him alive. Mavs should have signed Bogdanovic, though.
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WCS was choosing between Michael Jordan, who always overpays for junk, and GS's salary scraps, when he is in the point of his career that actual good players are cashing in. GS decided that it was better just to let him go for nothing, rather than pay a little tax on an extremely cheap contract. Safe to say that Carlisle is not on an island here if he does not choose to force feed the guy heavy minutes.
You're missing the point.

WCS was a big factor on both ends and he disappears. We go down by 20+ pts. KP and especially Kleber is getting obliterated and Kleber wasn't contributing offensively at all and actually hurt the team by being out on the floor. Still "we need the spacing". I figured at least a few people would justify him getting 5 minutes while we're getting smashed on the boards and can't slow them down on offense. How much more production does it take to justify him going back in that game? Him riding pine was one of the reasons I wasn't impressed with the trade. He isn't even getting a chance to help or prove his value. Idc how much he gets paid, what he did anywhere else or what they thought of him. When a guy is playing well and producing results you don't sit his ass back down and leave him there the rest of the game. It was a mistake.
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:12 AM   #162
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WCS was choosing between Michael Jordan, who always overpays for junk, and GS's salary scraps, when he is in the point of his career that actual good players are cashing in. GS decided that it was better just to let him go for nothing, rather than pay a little tax on an extremely cheap contract. Safe to say that Carlisle is not on an island here if he does not choose to force feed the guy heavy minutes.
It was not about "pay a little bit extra tax", it was about avoiding the repeater tax this season and this was a nobrainer because its going to have huge financial impact in the next seasons. With going under it this season, they dont fall under that tax the until 21-22 season earliest.

With trading WCS and going under the repeater tax line they are going so save around 40 million in tax next season alone. Nobrainer for the Warriors to dump him

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Old 02-11-2020, 09:51 AM   #163
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The all star break can’t come soon enough. I think some posters here could use the break too. So much negativity floating around. All the sudden people are mad that we cut our 12th man on the bench for a former 2nd overall pick that is an above average defender, and there is a glaring need for wing help.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:23 AM   #164
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The all star break canít come soon enough. I think some posters here could use the break too. So much negativity floating around. All the sudden people are mad that we cut our 12th man on the bench for a former 2nd overall pick that is an above average defender, and there is a glaring need for wing help.
I personally don't care about Broek as much as what's the point of making moves if we don't utilize them. Underutilizing KP to an extent as well as WCS shouldn't fill people with confidence that MGK will play much either.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:47 AM   #165
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WCS was choosing between Michael Jordan, who always overpays for junk, and GS's salary scraps, when he is in the point of his career that actual good players are cashing in. GS decided that it was better just to let him go for nothing, rather than pay a little tax on an extremely cheap contract. Safe to say that Carlisle is not on an island here if he does not choose to force feed the guy heavy minutes.
But that's not why WCS didn't play, or did you miss what Rick said?

Had Rick said WCS was a poor matchup against Gobert, then that at least has some traction. Instead, it was because WCS wasn't a three point threat...
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:16 PM   #166
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Sure could use Drummond. They gave him up for a bag of donuts. But what do I know?
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:56 PM   #167
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Sure could use Drummond. They gave him up for a bag of donuts. But what do I know?
Iíd rather keep the warriors second round pick than trade it for a player that wants a max contract this offseason. You sign Drummond and thatís your team the next 5 years. KP, Luka, Drummond.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:59 PM   #168
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Iíd rather keep the warriors second round pick than trade it for a player that wants a max contract this offseason. You sign Drummond and thatís your team the next 5 years. KP, Luka, Drummond.
Plus Gobert trashed the Pistons with Drummond too. Just getting Drummond doesn't mean we wouldn't have been wrecked last night.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:03 PM   #169
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Sure could use Drummond. They gave him up for a bag of donuts. But what do I know?
Drummond doesn't shoot threes. Wouldn't work.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:09 PM   #170
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Drummond would be another pine rider here.

I'd rather see WCS get punished by Goober and company than not know what would have happened.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:18 PM   #171
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Drummond would be another pine rider here.

I'd rather see WCS get punished by Goober and company than not know what would have happened.
Hell, let's add Drummond. Talk about monster deep bench with size and rim defending abilities - Bobi, WCS, Drummond. Damn, I like it! /sarc

Edit: I can just imagine those guys on the bench in a Lakers playoff matchup watching AD, Howard, Boogie, and McGee playing, maybe 3 of the 4 at once, while they all sit. Here comes JJB! LOL (Gotta laugh to keep from crying)

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Old 02-11-2020, 01:21 PM   #172
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Hell, let's add Drummond. Talk about monster deep bench with size and rim defending abilities - Bobi, WCS, Drummond. Damn, I like it! /sarc

Edit: I can just imagine those guys on the bench in a Lakers playoff match watching AD, Howard, Boogie, and McGee playing. Here comes JJB! LOL (Gotta laugh to keep from crying)
No one would be able to lift the bench with those guys on it.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:22 PM   #173
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No one would be able to lift the bench with those guys on it.
Boom! Mic drop.

Oh yeah, the commie rep system here sucks. Gotta spread it around before I can give some more. WTH?!
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:23 PM   #174
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@OneLeggedFade1: Half the fan base wylin about Drummond the other half about Aussie Boy...and all I can think about is the fact that Rick needs to figure out how to use KP and Luka together effectively.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:31 PM   #175
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@OneLeggedFade1: Half the fan base wylin about Drummond the other half about Aussie Boy...and all I can think about is the fact that Rick needs to figure out how to use KP and Luka together effectively.
Agreed, but I do think starting WCS with those two would get us back on track to what we had with Powell except better defense. I think Maxi is getting over-exposed with the starting spot and more minutes. Like to see him come off the bench again.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:36 PM   #176
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@OneLeggedFade1: Half the fan base wylin about Drummond the other half about Aussie Boy...and all I can think about is the fact that Rick needs to figure out how to use KP and Luka together effectively.
When luka plays, KP stands beyond the 3-pt line waiting for the ball, so he can jack up some threes. What's the problem? #analyticsftw. #spacing

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Old 02-11-2020, 01:39 PM   #177
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Agreed, but I do think starting WCS with those two would get us back on track to what we had with Powell except better defense. I think Maxi is getting over-exposed with the starting spot and more minutes. Like to see him come off the bench again.
Agree

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Old 02-11-2020, 01:41 PM   #178
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Agreed, but I do think starting WCS with those two would get us back on track to what we had with Powell except better defense. I think Maxi is getting over-exposed with the starting spot and more minutes. Like to see him come off the bench again.
Yeah, I'd prefer to see WCS just slip into the Powell role with a SL of:

Luka
THJ
DFS
KP
WCS
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:41 PM   #179
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Agreed, but I do think starting WCS with those two would get us back on track to what we had with Powell except better defense. I think Maxi is getting over-exposed with the starting spot and more minutes. Like to see him come off the bench again.
My hope and feelings exactly. Maxi was in a nice groove as a member of the bench unit. Some All-Star break rest should be good for his legs as well.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:52 PM   #180
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WCS was choosing between Michael Jordan, who always overpays for junk, and GS's salary scraps, when he is in the point of his career that actual good players are cashing in. GS decided that it was better just to let him go for nothing, rather than pay a little tax on an extremely cheap contract. Safe to say that Carlisle is not on an island here if he does not choose to force feed the guy heavy minutes.
He avg 23 minutes with GS
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:01 PM   #181
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WCS
DFS
???
MCG
JJB

We need an all-three initial roster
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:05 PM   #182
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It wasn't that long ago that the MBT made Noel a fairly big contract offer. He doesn't shoot 3's. WTH changed? GS winning titles shooting 3's? Yeah, it doesn't hurt playing like that when you have arguably the best shooter in NBA history, but that team still played damn good defense.

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Old 02-11-2020, 02:16 PM   #183
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@OneLeggedFade1: Half the fan base wylin about Drummond the other half about Aussie Boy...and all I can think about is the fact that Rick needs to figure out how to use KP and Luka together effectively.
Yea. Whoever that is also kinda gets it. Underutilized KP and Luka KP mixing is still an issue. Donnie and Mark need to sit Rick down and "encourage" him to sort all that shit out. The excuses errr reasons for slightly mismanaging the rotations needs to end. I'd be fine if we KNEW WCS and KP didn't work. If we knew Boban couldnt handle some more minutes. If we knew KP needs to stick to the perimeter. Instead of "the system" and in theory or in practice this works well. I get that behind closed practice doors they get more and different information than what we see in games but when there is proof and production in games you gotta stick with it. Idc what small ball and spacing theories exist.
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:05 PM   #184
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The all star break canít come soon enough. I think some posters here could use the break too. So much negativity floating around. All the sudden people are mad that we cut our 12th man on the bench for a former 2nd overall pick that is an above average defender, and there is a glaring need for wing help.
The negativity stems from opening up the season hot, expectations went way up, then the team settled to what amounts to a .500 team (including big injuries). People need to readjust their expectations for this team. That doesnt mean that the team could be playing better with what they have, but whatever. Ride it out, and hope they can win a game or two in the first round.
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:32 PM   #185
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WCS was choosing between Michael Jordan, who always overpays for junk, and GS's salary scraps, when he is in the point of his career that actual good players are cashing in. GS decided that it was better just to let him go for nothing, rather than pay a little tax on an extremely cheap contract. Safe to say that Carlisle is not on an island here if he does not choose to force feed the guy heavy minutes.
You do realize that in both Sacramento and Golden St he started and played a little over 20 mpg

I'm not sure if you've watched much nba outside of Mavs game but he's played pretty consistent minutes every where despite not being a 3 pt shooter

Let's just call this what it is bigs arent important in Dallas

They haven't been important since Tyson Chandler and B.Haywood tandem helped solidly our middle to a title team

So even though all these bigs I'm about to list below can rebound and defend which helps their respective teams on a nightly basis. The fact they can't shoot 3's would have their ass glued to the bench in Dallas where as their respective teams finds ways for it to work

Steven Adams
N.Noel
H.Whiteside
Dwight Howard
J.McGee
R.Gobert
A.Drummond
D.Favors
I forget the Kid up in New Jersey name with the cool Fro but he doesnt shoot 3's either

I'm sure that I'm missing 1 or 2 other names but my point is if you utilize these bigs the right way they can still be of value and productive even if you want to play some small ball

The thunder and Lakers regardless of matchups stay the course they never DNP their bigs because they rely on those guys to provide rebounding and post defense

A guy like Whiteside who can't shoot a lick still plays heavy minutes in Portland and still see D.Lilliard putting up numbers so how much does Whiteside lack of shooting hurt their floor spacing?

I was always told as a former player on the college level myself that coaches have a system but they also should be able to adjust their system to the personel.

I just don't buy into the idea that WCS can't help this team win games on a nightly basis just because he can't shoot 3's

I think you play the guy next to KP and use him the same way you used D.Powell and see what type of results you get over 5-10 game stretch before assuming it doesn't work or not even giving it a fair shot.

You got destroyed on the boards by Gobert not just in this game but the last game up in Utah as well which ironically WCS didn't play either

You had 26 rebounds as a team the entire game. The Jazz backup big man played 15 minutes and grabbed 7 boards himself and your telling me a guy who just had 10 rebounds in 25 minutes the game prior to this couldn't be a factor?

Everyone likes a sexy offense but at the end of the day if you can't rebound and defend your a$$ is going home with a L when the chips matter
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:01 PM   #186
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Maybe there is more to it with WCS? Maybe he’s not understanding the offensive/defensive sets. Maybe he’s not hustling in practice. Who knows
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:10 PM   #187
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Maybe there is more to it with WCS? Maybe heís not understanding the offensive/defensive sets. Maybe heís not hustling in practice. Who knows
If that's the case then why did he play at all? When he was in the game last night (and like most games he has played here) he was productive. It's really as simple as Rick values floor stretching bigs, even at the high cost of rebounds and defense.
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:44 PM   #188
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If that's the case then why did he play at all? When he was in the game last night (and like most games he has played here) he was productive. It's really as simple as Rick values floor stretching bigs, even at the high cost of rebounds and defense.
Bigs only stretch the floor if the defense is man 2 man and the coach has them leave the paint to head out to the 3-pt line. Hide and watch, but the next "genius" innovation is going to come from some coach who finally says "screw it, I'm not having my big run around chasing a freaking guard after switching off." He'll play a damn zone all game. All defenses have their positives and negatives. Zones used to be illegal. Well, they aren't anymore, so I fully expect them to be the main tool used to counter this current offensive trend in the NBA. I can't believe it's taking this long to figure out.

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Old 02-11-2020, 04:51 PM   #189
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Bigs only stretch the floor if the defense is man 2 man and the coach has them leave the paint to head out to the 3-pt line. Hide and watch, but the next "genius" innovation is going to come from some coach who finally says "screw it, I'm not having my big run around chasing a freaking guard after switching off." He'll play a damn zone all game. All defenses have their positives and negatives. Zones used to be illegal. Well, they aren't anymore, so I fully expect them to be the main tool used to counter this current offensive trend in the NBA. I can't believe it's taking this long to figure out.

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Zones are fine except:

1) when teams hit threes (we're 19th in 3pt defense)
2) Teams have an inside threat (we don't have a single player who is even competent guarding the post one-on-one)
3) When teams can drive on us. We have some really poor lateral quickness and little length on the perimeter. Little shotblocking other than KP who isn't particularly fast. Teams negate KP by dragging him out to the perimeter and going around him.

So, like, zones are great except when you have our roster.
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Old 02-11-2020, 05:10 PM   #190
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I've seen the mavs play zone occasionally with some success.

I think they could be really good zone if they committed to WCS and KP on the floor together

That's some serious length inside defensively which allows our guards to close out on shooters without fear of the blow by because you have rim protectors

The mavs are a team that plays better defense overall when they can keep two bigs on the floor as opposed to just one. They don't rebound or defend well enough to get buy with just one big guy on the floor.

Plus having more length allows your team to over more ground defensively especially if you lack good quality individual defenders.

Mavs are 4-10 vs west playoffs teams and a lot of that has to do with our inability to get stops

They score enough points offensively in those games but they can't get stops when it matters most

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Old 02-11-2020, 05:52 PM   #191
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Zones are fine except:

1) when teams hit threes (we're 19th in 3pt defense)
2) Teams have an inside threat (we don't have a single player who is even competent guarding the post one-on-one)
3) When teams can drive on us. We have some really poor lateral quickness and little length on the perimeter. Little shotblocking other than KP who isn't particularly fast. Teams negate KP by dragging him out to the perimeter and going around him.

So, like, zones are great except when you have our roster.
It's kinda easy to go around KP and score when there is no other big defender on the floor, at all. They beat KP off the dribble and Curry, thj or Brunson is back there ready to give up the and 1.
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:13 PM   #192
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Zones are fine except:

1) when teams hit threes (we're 19th in 3pt defense)
2) Teams have an inside threat (we don't have a single player who is even competent guarding the post one-on-one)
3) When teams can drive on us. We have some really poor lateral quickness and little length on the perimeter. Little shotblocking other than KP who isn't particularly fast. Teams negate KP by dragging him out to the perimeter and going around him.

So, like, zones are great except when you have our roster.
I have one issue with your assessment. History has proven that time and time again theories don't necessarily hold up in reality. It wasn't that long ago that winning titles with 3-pt shooting just wouldn't work. The math sure looked nice, but it just wouldn't work in theory. Like anything else, you have to have the right personnel. Man-to-man sucks without the proper personnel. Just look at the Mavs if you don't believe me. As to your other objections:

1. When teams hit 3's it doesn't matter what defense a team is playing. The point is that over a 7-game series, it's pretty damn hard to win one if you're a jump-shooting team. Any Mavs fan who has paid attention for the last 25 years recognizes that.

2. The type of zone will dictate how the rim is defended. A simple 1-2-2 would have 2 bigs on each side of the lane, so if neither pops out on a shooter, the the driver in the lane will kick out. Will he make it? Who knows. Depends upon the shot and the player, but you're not going to give up a layup or dunk the majority of the time.

3. Again, 2 bigs in a zone are sufficient to discourage driving. I know Gobert is elite at the 5, but did you see a whole lot of driving to the hoop when he was the only big in the middle for Utah? The right people in the paint deter driving. Make those guards pull up and see if they can find an old-school mid-range jumper. That's better than a damn layup which the Mavs give up on a regular basis. As far as KP being dragged out to the perimeter, if he's told to not chase and stay and guard the rim (we are talking about a zone for heaven's sake), guess what? He doesn't chase a little midget who can out-quick him and leave him alone on the perimeter with an unguarded basket. This isn't rocket science.

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Old 02-11-2020, 07:25 PM   #193
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It's kinda easy to go around KP and score when there is no other big defender on the floor, at all. They beat KP off the dribble and Curry, thj or Brunson is back there ready to give up the and 1.
Exactly. Still, he shouldn't be pulled out to the 3-pt line to begin with imo.

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Old 02-11-2020, 11:00 PM   #194
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I found some disturbing numbers about the defense for this team and unfortunately Luka can't fix this problem.

I use to laugh at the Rockets and D'antoni for their comical defense but it appears our mavs might be worse than the rockets defensively

In the last 15 games, the Mavericks are giving up 115.5 points per 100 possessions, the 25th ranked defense in the entire league over that span. The Mavericks have lost four of their last five at home. Three of the four losses included disturbing defensive performances against the Jazz, Grizzlies and Suns, all of whom molly-whopped the Mavericks out of competitiveness.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:08 PM   #195
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But that's not why WCS didn't play, or did you miss what Rick said?

Had Rick said WCS was a poor matchup against Gobert, then that at least has some traction. Instead, it was because WCS wasn't a three point threat...
The three point shooting thing, could be a direct reference to the Gobert matchup. The strategy may have been to pull Gobert away from the basket on defense. Thatís what they did the last time they played Utah. Notice that all of WCSís production came with Gobert on the bench.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:18 PM   #196
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The three point shooting thing, could be a direct reference to the Gobert matchup. The strategy may have been to pull Gobert away from the basket on defense. That’s what they did the last time they played Utah. Notice that all of WCS’s production came with Gobert on the bench.
That stretch garbage only works if Utah's coach is a dumbass and has his elite rim protector give chase on D out to the 3-pt line which is completely moronic imo.

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Old 02-12-2020, 03:28 PM   #197
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That stretch garbage only works if Utah's coach is a dumbass and has his elite rim protector give chase on D out to the 3-pt line which is completely moronic imo.
You donít remember Delon getting chase down blocked? Gobert came straight out to the three point line, to guard Delon on that play. Bigs are being pulled out to three point line all the time.
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:54 PM   #198
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You donít remember Delon getting chase down blocked? Gobert came straight out to the three point line, to guard Delon on that play. Bigs are being pulled out to three point line all the time.
Ehh. It wasn't an iso play from a switch where he came all the way to the three point line. He scrambled to the top of the key and recovered for the block. It was an incredible reaction and recovery by him combined with a rushed attempt from Delon where he didn't use his body to shield Goober from the layup. There was 15 seconds on the clock when he drove the ball, and it's probably picky to say they could have attacked the mismatch better. Delon attacked his front leg which was good but the reverse pivot and chase down by Goober was so good it was silly.

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Old 02-12-2020, 06:15 PM   #199
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Gobert and maybe Giannis are the only player in the entire freaking league that are able to recover&block delon there. Was a great play, just bad luck for us
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:29 PM   #200
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You don’t remember Delon getting chase down blocked? Gobert came straight out to the three point line, to guard Delon on that play. Bigs are being pulled out to three point line all the time.
Yes, and I've seen KP come out and block a shot, too. Call me crazy, but I won't trade 1 block for 3+ layups. That's just me.

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