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View Poll Results: Would you be dissappointed if we didn't make another trade
Yes! We're desperate. We need to maximize time 2 10.00%
Yes, but only the right one. Be aggressive but patient 15 75.00%
Apathetic. Just apathetic. 0 0%
No. Let's see what we have with KP and Doncic when they get healthy. 3 15.00%
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Old 01-04-2020, 04:55 AM   #41
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I never liked Drummond. Count me in the group that would much rather get a 3 and d perimeter player. Or some piece that would be a no brainer game changer to the defense. That is not Drummond.
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:41 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson View Post
I never liked Drummond. Count me in the group that would much rather get a 3 and d perimeter player. Or some piece that would be a no brainer game changer to the defense. That is not Drummond.
I would rather have a 3 and D perimeter player too, but the problem is EVERY TEAM needs that exact same thing. Outside of franchise player superstars, 3 and D wingmen are the most valuable commodity in the entire sport. The only team that has "enough" of them is the Clippers. Literally every other team is looking for them. I hope we get one, but I'm not holding my breath, unless its a third-tier kinda guy like Delon. So in the probably absence of a real difference maker in that role, you have to look at other places where you can improve the roster.

While Drummond doesn't exactly make me salivate either, my philosophy generally speaking is that any time you have the chance to upgrade your roster, you do it. And anyone who doesn't think Drummond would be a MASSIVE upgrade over Powell... I just don't know what to say to that.

I think Drummond has quietly and quite strangely become the most underrated player in the league. I'm kind of amazed how people seem to just completely write him off. I think it's sort of a knee jerk overreaction to the whole traditional-centers-are-obsolete mantra. I think the idea that centers who play in the post and rebound and don't shoot are complete dinosaurs is really overblown. There will always be a place in the NBA for bigs who can rebound and protect the paint, particularly if they do either of those things at an elite level. Like, does nobody understand that he's not just the best rebounder in the league- of his entire generation, really- but that it's not even close? And people seem to have this bizarre idea that he's a slow, lumbering center who can't run the floor or switch on pick and rolls, like he's Eddy Curry or something. I have no idea where this idea comes from, because he's very fast and athletic, and is one of the better defensive centers in the league. Probably top 5, if not easily top ten.

People worry about spacing, which is sort of understandable, but to anyone who thinks Drummond would kill our spacing, I must say- you do know that Powell doesn't exactly spread the floor either, right? And if the other big man on the floor is KP... what's the problem? Drummond surrounded by 4 shooters works just fine.

In a vacuum, if we were to just add Drummond to the roster and give nothing up, it would be a significant upgrade, so it's something the Mavs would be fools not to consider or take seriously. The only hurdle is his cost. He'll probably get a max contract on the open market, especially considering this summer will be one of the worst free agent classes in recent memory. I'm not sure he's worth that, or whatever assets it would take to work a trade before he hits free agency.

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Old 01-04-2020, 07:06 AM   #43
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^^ All that being said, my #1 target this summer wouldn't be Drummond but Ibaka. Not quite as talented as Drummond but probably a better fit. Don't know if he'll leave Toronto though. He's got a pretty good situation there.
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Old 01-04-2020, 07:12 AM   #44
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I'm not really worried about the offense. I've always thought of him as more of an empty stat person. The only real offensive concern I would have is his usage. He's not getting the touches he got in Detroit. So would he be "ok" with that? I would be a little concerned with KP and Drummond defending in space. I don't claim to watch the Pistons unless I have to really but when I go to their fan forums and they are bitching about him never leaving the paint and many seem to be counting the days until he's gone... that's not gonna make me feel like he's a fantastic fit with KP. I just don't see him moving the needle all that much. And my main concern with regards to improving the roster is entirely about defense because that is what we need most imo. But all I know is our assets are limited and if getting Drummond costs more than literal throw away stuff, since I don't expect the relationship to go beyond this one year, then I don't think it's worth it to make a deal for him personally.
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Old 01-04-2020, 07:17 AM   #45
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I'm not really worried about the offense. I've always thought of him as more of an empty stat person. The only real offensive concern I would have is his usage. He's not getting the touches he got in Detroit. So would he be "ok" with that? I would be a little concerned with KP and Drummond defending in space. I don't claim to watch the Pistons unless I have to really but when I go to their fan forums and they are bitching about him never leaving the paint and many seem to be counting the days until he's gone... that's not gonna make me feel like he's a fantastic fit with KP. I just don't see him moving the needle all that much. And my main concern with regards to improving the roster is entirely about defense because that is what we need most imo. But all I know is our assets are limited and if getting Drummond costs more than literal throw away stuff, since I don't expect the relationship to go beyond this one year, then I don't think it's worth it to make a deal for him personally.
I feel you. Like I said, it comes down to his cost. I think it's doubtful he'll end up here because I just feel like someone other team will break the bank for him and/or just has better assets to offer Detroit.
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:41 AM   #46
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What about Serge Ibaka?
Off topic but it would be nice to have Ibaka at least to keep Marquese Chriss from touching Luka

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Old 01-04-2020, 09:01 AM   #47
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You see him as just a rotation big man? Do you really value DP that much? Serious question.
Agree. DP is absolutely terrible. It takes a generational talent like Luka to even make him shine in the one friggin thing he does once or twice a game - lob/dunk. I can't believe it is taking so long for people to see this. Yes, I love the hyperactive Pomeranian's little motor, but it's largely wasted energy that would be far more entertaining on a slip-n-slide than on a basketball court, much less starting for an NBA team with playoff aspirations. WTF?

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Old 01-04-2020, 09:01 AM   #48
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You see him as just a rotation big man? Do you really value DP that much? Serious question.
Thompson is getting a lot of empty stats in Cleveland, he's not THAT good. He is an elite offensive rebounder - just about as good as Drummond

I would assume that Thompson would take a few of DP's minutes so there's that. I'm not really a fan of DP except he seems to be a lively body on D and doesn't screw things up on offense. He's certainly not worth the contract he signed but it isn't my money
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:05 AM   #49
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I never liked Drummond. Count me in the group that would much rather get a 3 and d perimeter player. Or some piece that would be a no brainer game changer to the defense. That is not Drummond.
Since RC is not going to be playing Boban much at all, I'd say swapping Drummond for a lightweight, invisible Powell would be a game changer on defense. Drummond and KP compared to DP and KP? Are you seriously saying there would be no difference defensively?

Edit: I'm right there with you on the want/need for a 3 and D player, but come playoff time, DP in the middle is an open lane to the basket for layups galore for the other team. Personally, I'd rather have our opponents out bomb us from 3 than to see the Mavs demoralized completely due to no interior defense when Powell is in there. KP can't play 48 minutes, and Maxi is not good enough to cover for DP.

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Old 01-04-2020, 09:11 AM   #50
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I would rather have a 3 and D perimeter player too, but the problem is EVERY TEAM needs that exact same thing. Outside of franchise player superstars, 3 and D wingmen are the most valuable commodity in the entire sport. The only team that has "enough" of them is the Clippers. Literally every other team is looking for them. I hope we get one, but I'm not holding my breath, unless its a third-tier kinda guy like Delon. So in the probably absence of a real difference maker in that role, you have to look at other places where you can improve the roster.

While Drummond doesn't exactly make me salivate either, my philosophy generally speaking is that any time you have the chance to upgrade your roster, you do it. And anyone who doesn't think Drummond would be a MASSIVE upgrade over Powell... I just don't know what to say to that.

I think Drummond has quietly and quite strangely become the most underrated player in the league. I'm kind of amazed how people seem to just completely write him off. I think it's sort of a knee jerk overreaction to the whole traditional-centers-are-obsolete mantra. I think the idea that centers who play in the post and rebound and don't shoot are complete dinosaurs is really overblown. There will always be a place in the NBA for bigs who can rebound and protect the paint, particularly if they do either of those things at an elite level. Like, does nobody understand that he's not just the best rebounder in the league- of his entire generation, really- but that it's not even close? And people seem to have this bizarre idea that he's a slow, lumbering center who can't run the floor or switch on pick and rolls, like he's Eddy Curry or something. I have no idea where this idea comes from, because he's very fast and athletic, and is one of the better defensive centers in the league. Probably top 5, if not easily top ten.

People worry about spacing, which is sort of understandable, but to anyone who thinks Drummond would kill our spacing, I must say- you do know that Powell doesn't exactly spread the floor either, right? And if the other big man on the floor is KP... what's the problem? Drummond surrounded by 4 shooters works just fine.

In a vacuum, if we were to just add Drummond to the roster and give nothing up, it would be a significant upgrade, so it's something the Mavs would be fools not to consider or take seriously. The only hurdle is his cost. He'll probably get a max contract on the open market, especially considering this summer will be one of the worst free agent classes in recent memory. I'm not sure he's worth that, or whatever assets it would take to work a trade before he hits free agency.
well said.
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:46 AM   #51
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While Drummond doesn't exactly make me salivate either, my philosophy generally speaking is that any time you have the chance to upgrade your roster, you do it. And anyone who doesn't think Drummond would be a MASSIVE upgrade over Powell... I just don't know what to say to that.
If Drummond would be the final piece to the puzzle then OK

But we would have to trade the last of our assets to get him THEN sign him to a massive contract which would effectively lock us out of free agency for a long time. I don't think he's the final piece to the puzzle so that's the reason I wouldn't do it
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Old 01-04-2020, 11:20 AM   #52
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I like how you guys trash Powell while assuming that we could get a decent return for a "trash player" like him in a trade (a time-honored tradition, I know)... He's our new Dampier/Matthews -- dude ain't going anywhere until his contract is about to expire.

And Drummond? Are we trading a bag of magic beans for the guy? Regardless of how you feel about him as a player, any deal would include THJ, who has far more value to us than he would to the Pistons. I mean, sure, Detroit could clear out some cap space next year, but it's not like they're gonna do anything with that space because nobody wants to play there, so what's the point? They need talent, and the only way they can get it is to draft (which they suck at) or trade for it. We're not the only team in the league who could use Drummond -- there's GOTTA be a better deal out there than anything we can offer.

Although if we somehow did deal for him, I wouldn't be against the move because his contract (expiring next year) doesn't preclude us from going in a different direction if things don't pan out, or if better options (Giannis) become available... I just don't see how it happens in the first place.
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Old 01-04-2020, 11:21 AM   #53
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Since RC is not going to be playing Boban much at all, I'd say swapping Drummond for a lightweight, invisible Powell would be a game changer on defense. Drummond and KP compared to DP and KP? Are you seriously saying there would be no difference defensively?

Edit: I'm right there with you on the want/need for a 3 and D player, but come playoff time, DP in the middle is an open lane to the basket for layups galore for the other team. Personally, I'd rather have our opponents out bomb us from 3 than to see the Mavs demoralized completely due to no interior defense when Powell is in there. KP can't play 48 minutes, and Maxi is not good enough to cover for DP.
Boink. This.
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Old 01-04-2020, 11:36 AM   #54
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I never liked Drummond. Count me in the group that would much rather get a 3 and d perimeter player. Or some piece that would be a no brainer game changer to the defense. That is not Drummond.
There is no question that he would be a game changer defensively. We have Powell. Starting at center. Averaging 5 rebounds per. He cant hold his position well because of his build. Offensively He cant shoot the 3 so you dont lose that by bringing in a bigger much better version of everything else. It's not very likely to happen so its moot but I'm very surprised to see there are a few people that seem to disagree the value of Drummond in our situation.

Aside from Morris its slim pickins finding a game changing 3 and D. Good luck on that front.
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:23 PM   #55
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I don't really want Drummond and think he'll cost too much, but I'll listen to any trade that gets rid of Powell.
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:37 PM   #56
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Not much interest in Drummond. He’s going to ask for 4yrs-120m or something obscene.
Get the best we can get with Lee and TE and maybe if it’s something really good 2nd rd picks and Brunson/Jackson.
Plus in today’s NBA, a rebound only post guy is an MLE level journeyman at best
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:50 PM   #57
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Plus in today’s NBA, a rebound only post guy is an MLE level journeyman at best
"todays NBA" So tiring and just reading it hurts my eyes.
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Old 01-04-2020, 01:19 PM   #58
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Sizers are looking for shooting. I wonder what they need and if we could get back Richardson who is a good defender and would shoot well with Luka getting him open looks unlike Simmons.
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Old 01-04-2020, 01:47 PM   #59
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Plus in today’s NBA, a rebound only post guy is an MLE level journeyman at best
Lol

This is a silly comment

Rudy Gobert anchors the jazz defense take him off that team and what them plummet

What about Capela in Houston

If you surround defensive minded bigs who can rebound and give you a few buckets in the paint you can still win playoff games in this league

Drummond surrounded by skillful offensive players like luka and KP would put Dallas amongst the elite out west

There's not another guy on this roster capable of bothering anthony davis defensively
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Old 01-04-2020, 01:55 PM   #60
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Could you imagine having to keep Drummond, Luka and KP off the boards

Imagine the 2nd chance shot opportunity luka would get with Drummond or the less wear and tear on him and kp if Drummond is reducing their load to get every rebound because Powell doesnt rebound

Drummond, Collins and Trae Young would be a nice tandem

Drummond, KP and Luka would be a great tandem

He's friends with KP from what I've read and the dude can actually move for his size

He has actual skills beyond dunking the ball...dude averages 4 assist a game and 2 steals

Think about that for a minute

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Old 01-04-2020, 02:04 PM   #61
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Looks like you understand nothing about our offense

Looks like you also dont understand the difference in mobility between Gobert/Capela and Drummond

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Old 01-04-2020, 02:13 PM   #62
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The Mavs learned their lesson from the Rondo trade for sure. If they are going to do a bigger trade, then they are still going for fit over the big name. Thats why they have zero interest in Paul and looks like zero interest in Drummond.

What they really need:

Center:
an above average roll man that is a better defender/rebounder than Powell but also mobil enough to defend the perimeter. Capela is a perfect example. And the list of such player is pretty short so i dont expect a big trade for a center

Wing:
Either a DFS with better offense/scoring or a THJ with better defense. Prime example is a healthy Otto Porter after the deadline trade to Chicago. Too bad Porter is going to be injuried until the ASG

But yeah, thats the two types of player the Mavs are looking for.

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Old 01-04-2020, 03:36 PM   #63
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Detroit is 24th in defensive rating and 25th in defense in the paint with Drummond as their anchor.
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:57 PM   #64
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Looks like you understand nothing about our offense

Looks like you also dont understand the difference in mobility between Gobert/Capela and Drummond
Dude what Drummond are you watching?

The dude is big and strong but he's also very mobile for his size.

You might want to get NBA league pass and check out a few games beyond the local mavs telecast

Also, you act like houston hasn't benched capela in years past doing playoff games because of matchups

So all centers will run into matchup problems vs smaller players or lineups but some of them can still give 25-30 minutes of quality work before teams go small latre in games

Drummond gives you the ability to compete better in those 30 minutes of playoff basketball as opposed to dwight Powell

And at some point you got to deal with Lakers big front line who manhandled the mavs the last matchup inside the paint

Mavs might not even have what Detroit wants to get Drummond but if you guys believe he doesnt make Dallas better at center over dwight freakin Powell y'all have lost your damn mind

Hell I think boban starting over Powell makes Dallas better that's how much I think about Powell's rebounding and defense at the 5 spot

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Old 01-04-2020, 04:58 PM   #65
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Enter the fn twilight zone.
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Old 01-04-2020, 05:54 PM   #66
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Enter the fn twilight zone.
Do you consider Drummond the missing link for a championship team? No other moves, just Drummond

Because if we trade for him and then resign him, we are capped out for at least 5 years
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:17 PM   #67
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Do you consider Drummond the missing link for a championship team? No other moves, just Drummond

Because if we trade for him and then resign him, we are capped out for at least 5 years
Love Drummond. Dude is an incredible rebounder and I could see him elevating our team's rebounding even further (we're currently 5th in the league) while being a really fun target for lobs from Doncic.

But you're absolutely right. We have KP maxed. We will absolutely have to max Doncic. Doncic/KP/Drummond maxed will have us hitting the cap practically by themselves and I'm not sure we'd be an elite team with the three of them for the next five years and that team would really struggle to provide the kind of spacing that Doncic needs to dominate the drive.

We already have elite rebounding (5th in the league) so we don't need his skills nearly as much as other teams. Drummond is going to cost a first-rounder or two (we only the Warriors' high second. The next first-rounder we can offer is 2025). He's not particularly good at defense (both man and shotblocking/weak side). AS much as people hate Powell, he also provides similar value in roll man. We probably don't have enough to offer and even if we had enough, we'd be paying a lot for a bigger name guy who only reinforces our strengths while not addressing our weaknesses.

Things we don't need
Rebounding (5th)
Offense (1st in the league)

Things we do need to address
Defense (15th)
Steals (28th)
Blocks (21st)

I'm not sure we need to sell the farm to makes us better at what we already do well in while not really addressing this team's biggest weaknesses.
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:24 PM   #68
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Do you consider Drummond the missing link for a championship team? No other moves, just Drummond

Because if we trade for him and then resign him, we are capped out for at least 5 years
I'd consider it a huge step toward it, but no one could know if he is the missing link. We would have the entire 2nd half of the season plus playoffs to determine fit and decide. You could always move players so to say we are stuck with no moves for 5 years is incorrect. Do you see something wrong with a test drive, especially through the playoffs?

List the players in FA that that are definitely a missing piece to a championship. Giannis isnt going to happen so make it realistic
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:37 PM   #69
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The bigger question is what the trade market actually is for Drummond. Like, why would a trade rumor like that just leak out? I really don't believe teams are actually lining up to give up huge assets for him. Sounds like an agent leak to start a bidding war.
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:45 PM   #70
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Teams that pay Andre Drummond 30 million a year do not win championships.
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Old 01-04-2020, 07:21 PM   #71
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Teams that pay Andre Drummond 30 million a year do not win championships.
Which is another big downside to Drummond.

Say we throw assets at him. Maybe some young talent like Brunson and Wright and Golden State pick which is almost a first-rounder.

We get to this summer and he opts out. Do we:

1) Offer him 30 mill a year and limit our options
2) Offer him 15-20 mill a year and let another dumber team (and there always are dumber teams) poach him away by offering him 30.
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Old 01-04-2020, 07:43 PM   #72
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"todays NBA" So tiring and just reading it hurts my eyes.
Agree. And prime Shaq would be a solid sub on a situational basis only in today's game. The guy can't make free throws, much less shoot 3's. /sarc
WTF is it with this stupidity?
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:20 PM   #73
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Agree. And prime Shaq would be a solid sub on a situational basis only in today's game. The guy can't make free throws, much less shoot 3's. /sarc
WTF is it with this stupidity?
Right. We couldnt even play Shaq in the playoffs in todays NBa . #LoAd MaNagMeNT
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:25 PM   #74
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Teams that pay Andre Drummond 30 million a year do not win championships.
Fun.. we could also do, Teams that pay Powell 9m a year dont either.
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:57 PM   #75
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Fun.. we could also do, Teams that pay Powell 9m a year dont either.
I'd wager that most teams after making a mistake like this would avoid doubling down by starting him. WTH? LOL
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:59 PM   #76
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Right. We couldnt even play Shaq in the playoffs in todays NBa . #LoAd MaNagMeNT
You know Shaq would have zero chance of keeping up and defending today's guards! :-O
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Old 01-04-2020, 10:15 PM   #77
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I would rather have a 3 and D perimeter player too, but the problem is EVERY TEAM needs that exact same thing. Outside of franchise player superstars, 3 and D wingmen are the most valuable commodity in the entire sport. The only team that has "enough" of them is the Clippers. Literally every other team is looking for them. I hope we get one, but I'm not holding my breath, unless its a third-tier kinda guy like Delon. So in the probably absence of a real difference maker in that role, you have to look at other places where you can improve the roster.

While Drummond doesn't exactly make me salivate either, my philosophy generally speaking is that any time you have the chance to upgrade your roster, you do it. And anyone who doesn't think Drummond would be a MASSIVE upgrade over Powell... I just don't know what to say to that.

I think Drummond has quietly and quite strangely become the most underrated player in the league. I'm kind of amazed how people seem to just completely write him off. I think it's sort of a knee jerk overreaction to the whole traditional-centers-are-obsolete mantra. I think the idea that centers who play in the post and rebound and don't shoot are complete dinosaurs is really overblown. There will always be a place in the NBA for bigs who can rebound and protect the paint, particularly if they do either of those things at an elite level. Like, does nobody understand that he's not just the best rebounder in the league- of his entire generation, really- but that it's not even close? And people seem to have this bizarre idea that he's a slow, lumbering center who can't run the floor or switch on pick and rolls, like he's Eddy Curry or something. I have no idea where this idea comes from, because he's very fast and athletic, and is one of the better defensive centers in the league. Probably top 5, if not easily top ten.

People worry about spacing, which is sort of understandable, but to anyone who thinks Drummond would kill our spacing, I must say- you do know that Powell doesn't exactly spread the floor either, right? And if the other big man on the floor is KP... what's the problem? Drummond surrounded by 4 shooters works just fine.

In a vacuum, if we were to just add Drummond to the roster and give nothing up, it would be a significant upgrade, so it's something the Mavs would be fools not to consider or take seriously. The only hurdle is his cost. He'll probably get a max contract on the open market, especially considering this summer will be one of the worst free agent classes in recent memory. I'm not sure he's worth that, or whatever assets it would take to work a trade before he hits free agency.
Everything he said.
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Old 01-04-2020, 10:17 PM   #78
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Do you consider Drummond the missing link for a championship team? No other moves, just Drummond

Because if we trade for him and then resign him, we are capped out for at least 5 years
Have you not learned anything watching Lakers, clippers, raptors the last few offseasons? Assets = Moves.

Remember when everyone laughed at the rockets with Chris Paul contract? Well guess who he plays for now. You can always move guys.
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Old 01-05-2020, 05:39 AM   #79
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EDIT: NM.

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Old 01-05-2020, 05:40 AM   #80
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EDIT: you changed it before I could
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