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Old 11-05-2017, 05:52 PM   #81
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Most embarrassing td I can remember for some time.
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Old 11-05-2017, 06:11 PM   #82
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Ouch
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Old 11-05-2017, 06:15 PM   #83
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Ugh
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:24 PM   #84
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Good recovery, but that end to the half and beginning of the third was rough
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:47 PM   #85
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I thought for sure we'd find a way to lose this game after the way the 1st half ended... Glad we didn't squander having Zeke around for another week!
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:50 PM   #86
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Emergency injunction denied. Elliot to start serving suspension.

Good thing I'm not really invested in the NFL because I can't imagine anyone liking that joke of a commissioner. He makes David Stern look likable in comparison.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:01 PM   #87
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Emergency injunction denied. Elliot to start serving suspension.

Good thing I'm not really invested in the NFL because I can't imagine anyone liking that joke of a commissioner. He makes David Stern look likable in comparison.
Yeah this is the first year I'm not waiting around Sunday morning waiting on football. Still watching redzone but it's really hard not to be annoyed with the NFL with everything going on with it.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:45 PM   #88
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Its the Dirk Nowitzki effect on their offense. As a defense, you absolutely overreact to every situation hes
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:49 PM   #89
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Is this ghost ball??
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:05 PM   #90
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Well, at least I don't have to miss the beginning of the Mavs game today... This one is over.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:07 PM   #91
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Well, at least I don't have to miss the beginning of the Mavs game today... This one is over.
I said nearly the same thing about 15min ago haha.
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:33 PM   #92
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:23 PM   #93
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-AOt4XhOBY



Goodell wants 50mill a year salary and lifetime access to a private jet and lifetime health insurance for his family.... SAY WHAT?!?!?!?!
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:41 PM   #94
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-AOt4XhOBY



Goodell wants 50mill a year salary and lifetime access to a private jet and lifetime health insurance for his family.... SAY WHAT?!?!?!?!
Yeah, I don't know if this is a strong negotiating tactic to get the owners to settle on the original deal, or if this is going to push them into Jerry's corner.
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Old 11-15-2017, 05:46 PM   #95
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@AdamSchefter: Cowboys RB Ezekiel Elliott is withdrawing his appeal, per a source. Elliott will serve his six-game suspension and return to the Cowboys on Christmas Eve against Seattle.

@AdamSchefter: Ezekiel Elliott withdrew his appeal because, legally speaking, the case was unlikely to be resolved before the six games were served. So now he will take them and return Dec. 24.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:19 AM   #96
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@AdamSchefter: Roger Goodell told Jerry Jones that he would not suspend Ezekiel Elliott - one more reason this is where it is.


Roger Goodell has a Jerry Jones problem and nobody knows how it will end
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...er-jerry-jones
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:46 AM   #97
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What's funny is I do think Zeke deserved a game or two for being screw up. He clearly did things that aren't aligned with the NFL's image. I think most people would agree with that.

But no, they slapped 6 games specifically nailing him for supposedly assaulting a woman who blatantly lied during the whole process. If they clearly had hard evidence against Zeke, then it would have leaked by now. But they don't. They really screwed up on this and it might be damaged beyond repair.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:25 AM   #98
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What's funny is I do think Zeke deserved a game or two for being screw up. He clearly did things that aren't aligned with the NFL's image. I think most people would agree with that.

But no, they slapped 6 games specifically nailing him for supposedly assaulting a woman who blatantly lied during the whole process. If they clearly had hard evidence against Zeke, then it would have leaked by now. But they don't. They really screwed up on this and it might be damaged beyond repair.
The NFL thinks two wrongs make a right -- Zeke is basically serving what should have been Ray Rice's suspension.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:47 PM   #99
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@AdamSchefter: Roger Goodell told Jerry Jones that he would not suspend Ezekiel Elliott - one more reason this is where it is.


Roger Goodell has a Jerry Jones problem and nobody knows how it will end
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...er-jerry-jones
That was not my takeaway from the piece. The segment did not say that Goodell told Jones that Elliott would not be suspended; rather, Jones came away from a phonecall "with the impression" that Elliott wouldn't be punished with a suspension.

Then, later, after considering the evidence, Goodell determined that a suspsension was appropriate, and informed Jones thusly.

There is a big difference in saying Jones' interpretation was X; or that Goodell informed Jones of one thing, and then changed his mind (a la Stephen Smith's reporting).

Even so, Goodell might rightly change his mind after re-considering the evidence, or considering additional evidence.

Pretty obvious that Jones is pissed about having his stud-headbasher taken out for the season, and that he's hell-bent on taking Goodell down for wrecking his season.

Jones has been channeling Al Davis for years now, and it will be interesting to see if he has the juice to run the league from Dallas, or if he will cement the franchise's prospects in eternal mediocrity by taking on the league and failing.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:23 PM   #100
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@AdamSchefter: Roger Goodell told Jerry Jones that he would not suspend Ezekiel Elliott - one more reason this is where it is.


Roger Goodell has a Jerry Jones problem and nobody knows how it will end
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...er-jerry-jones
Good read. The NFL really couldn't have screwed this up anymore than they did. A lot of this blame falls at the feet of Goodell and his hand picked staff. He had an image problem after so many hits to the face when he took over. So he did everything he could to rectify that by hiring people to help with those issues or at least boost the public image of the league and send a message that "we are trying to get it right". Then the league screwed up again with Brown. Then Friel leaves out the investigator's findings and doesn't invite her to the final meeting that presents the case for disciplinary action. The only reason to leave the investigator's findings and or the investigator herself out of that meeting was because her voice could sway the vote and thus have the league seem soft for yet another time by not suspending Zeke. Then there's the obvious pressure from other owners who would raise objection if Zeke, and really Jerry, be punished. So Zeke is the victim of a league office trying to make up for several cases of inaction during a time it's never faced more scrutiny, and he's also the victim of the bigger problem boiling for the NFL, a power struggle between owners and other owners and owners and league office, which has basically empowered itself under Goodell.

Messy as hell... and it's basically killed my football interest this year. Thank God for DSJ.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:20 PM   #101
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Messy as hell... and it's basically killed my football interest this year. Thank God for DSJ.
At least your fantasy team is beasting, you're still in the hunt for a first round bye!
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:16 PM   #102
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At least your fantasy team is beasting, you're still in the hunt for a first round bye!
Luck of the draw with points against/for lol, my team isn't very good. Especially with no zeke

Fantasy is about the only reason i'm watching football currently because of the stuff going on in the nfl.
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:55 PM   #103
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Luck of the draw with points against/for lol, my team isn't very good. Especially with no zeke

Fantasy is about the only reason i'm watching football currently because of the stuff going on in the nfl.
Yeah, a majority of the football I watch is RedZone, sometimes even when the Cowboys are playing... Aside from fantasy, the only things keeping me interested are Dak, Zeke, and oracle-mode Romo.

Of course, fantasy kind of hurts my interest as well by making me far more aware of major injuries that I never used to pay attention to unless they happened on the Cowboys... Every torn ACL makes me wonder why anyone would want to play the sport for a living, every story of CTE makes me wonder why the hell I keep supporting it... Then toss in the regularity of domestic violence, ridiculous career-killing weed bans, Goodell's spin-control kangaroo courts, and the dumbass "controversy" over kneeling, and yeah, the NFL just isn't worth my time, energy, or money these days.

Go Mavs.
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:05 PM   #104
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Yeah, a majority of the football I watch is RedZone, sometimes even when the Cowboys are playing... Aside from fantasy, the only things keeping me interested are Dak, Zeke, and oracle-mode Romo.

Of course, fantasy kind of hurts my interest as well by making me far more aware of major injuries that I never used to pay attention to unless they happened on the Cowboys... Every torn ACL makes me wonder why anyone would want to play the sport for a living, every story of CTE makes me wonder why the hell I keep supporting it... Then toss in the regularity of domestic violence, ridiculous career-killing weed bans, Goodell's spin-control kangaroo courts, and the dumbass "controversy" over kneeling, and yeah, the NFL just isn't worth my time, energy, or money these days.

Go Mavs.
100% agree.
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:10 PM   #105
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100% agree.
Just to add to my last post, even the Cowboys making the playoffs would be far less interesting to me right now than the Mavs getting a top-5 pick in this draft... It feels like all the horrible basketball I sit through is still more rewarding than the anything going on in the NFL, and that just SHOULDN'T be the case.
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:22 AM   #106
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The NFL thinks two wrongs make a right -- Zeke is basically serving what should have been Ray Rice's suspension.
I don't think Ray Rice has played a down of football since he was suspended. So unless the thought is that Ray Rice was punished excessively, Elliott is arguably getting off light.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:16 AM   #107
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I don't think Ray Rice has played a down of football since he was suspended. So unless the thought is that Ray Rice was punished excessively, Elliott is arguably getting off light.
Except the NFL initially only suspended Rice for 2 games, only to extend it after TMZ leaked the video that Goodell had already seen. The league doesnt give a shit about women or domestic abuse, they just want to create the perception that they do, which is why Goodell dropped the hammer on Zeke, despite being found not guilty in a court of law. Hell, the NFL investigator, Kia Roberts, even recommended no suspension based on interviews with Zekes accuser... This is 100% spin control after the league showed their ass in the Rice case they just want to appear to care about women, and theyre willing to throw Zeke under the bus to sell that lie.
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:09 PM   #108
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Except the NFL initially only suspended Rice for 2 games, only to extend it after TMZ leaked the video that Goodell had already seen. The league doesnt give a shit about women or domestic abuse, they just want to create the perception that they do, which is why Goodell dropped the hammer on Zeke, despite being found not guilty in a court of law. Hell, the NFL investigator, Kia Roberts, even recommended no suspension based on interviews with Zekes accuser... This is 100% spin control after the league showed their ass in the Rice case they just want to appear to care about women, and theyre willing to throw Zeke under the bus to sell that lie.
The league 'under'-reacted to Rice's assault initially, then corrected when public disclosure of the evidence forced its hand. Rice has not played since. The league also 'under'-reacted to Josh Brown's domestic violence and subsequently corrected. Should the league continue to 'under-react' and then 'correct' based on publicity and how high-profile the player is? Or should it continue to work to establish a standard for punishment when players are involved in domestic violence?

I'm going to disagree that league executives don't give a shit about women or domestic abuse. After the Rice issue, it appears to have created programs and executive positions to deal specifically with that issue. There may be multiple motivations (protecting the NFL brand and image being one of them) but I'm not so cynical (yet) to think that Goodell and the executives he has charged to oversee that issue do not have a human response to women being punched.

Also, Elliott was never tried in a court of law. He was never even charged by local (Columbus, OH) police, despite the police investigators finding that the accuser was 'generally' credible. Apparently there were issues (conflicting statements) with the case that made prosecutors doubt they could get a criminal conviction to a legal standard (beyond reasonable doubt).

The NFL, however, is free to discipline players at a standard lower than "beyond a reasonable doubt". The investigator (Roberts) may have had legitimate questions about the victim's credibility; her boss (Friel) found the victim credible overall, with one exception. It seems like a typical red herring cast by lawyers attempting to create an issue over a difference of opinion between Roberts and Friel, and Roberts' absence at the disciplinary hearing. The league obviously had Roberts' investigative report to consider; are Elliot's attorneys suggesting that Roberts would provide information in addition to or different from that which was provided in her 160-page report?

Ultimately, Goodell gave greater weight to Friel's conclusion than to Roberts',
a judgment call which he had the authority to make. It seems entirely possible too that Goodell was taking into account OTHER well-publicized Elliot-related incidents--an additional claim of domestic violence by the same accuser; a speeding ticket in which Elliott was going in excess of 100mph; Elliott's presence at a nightclub when one of his friends was arrested for illegally bringing a firearm into the club; the videotaped footage of Elliot pulling down a woman's shirt to expose her breast during a March 2017 St.Patrick's Day parade in Dallas. All of this would be information beyond what the NFL investigator (Kia Roberts) would have considered.

In any case, it is impossible for me to look at Zeke Elliott and think of him as a 'victim' of anything; rather, he seems to be the most talented beneficiary of Jerry Jones' willingness to "enable" by turning a blind eye to player misbehavior, or outright deny it when it affects the product he can put on the field, and the profit he can derive from it.

The other NFL owners are going to have to seriously question whether they can/will countenance that mentality in a fellow owner who is attempting to control the entire league for his own benefit, or whether they will take steps to curb his power, and his abuse thereof.
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Old 11-18-2017, 01:15 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr View Post
The league 'under'-reacted to Rice's assault initially, then corrected when public disclosure of the evidence forced its hand. Rice has not played since. The league also 'under'-reacted to Josh Brown's domestic violence and subsequently corrected. Should the league continue to 'under-react' and then 'correct' based on publicity and how high-profile the player is? Or should it continue to work to establish a standard for punishment when players are involved in domestic violence?
How can the NFL under/overreact when they don't have proof of anything? They had it with Rice, clear as day in that video, and they didn't give a shit until it threatened to affect their bottom line... They also found an email from Josh Brown admitting domestic abuse... They don't have one shred of credible evidence with Zeke, but they're going to punish him anyway because even the PERCEPTION of possible domestic violence affects their bottom line after the Ray Rice fiasco. This isn't about "doing the right thing," it's about protecting the brand. If they actually thought Zeke was guilty of domestic violence, then why isn't he getting banned for life like Rice?


"You're a black male athlete. I'm a white girl. They are not going to believe you."

She's right... The court of law wouldn't convict, but the court of public opinion and Goodell's kangaroo court adhere to no such standards.


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In any case, it is impossible for me to look at Zeke Elliott and think of him as a 'victim' of anything



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Old 11-18-2017, 02:20 PM   #110
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Really don't think Goodell even knew about Roberts "side" opposed to Friel's. Either that or he and the 4 panel committee ignored the only person the NFL sent to interview the woman. Friel didn't interview the victim so how can she even have a recommendation at all, how can anyone for that matter? You know who did talk to the victim? Not 1, but 2 police departments, both declined to even press charges. One in Ohio and the other in Florida before the combine. And the only other person was Roberts. Who recommended no suspension which she submitted with the 160 page report... which Friel for no reason whatsoever did not make available to the 4 person panel. Didn't mention, it just never existed... a panel that is supposed to decide if a man is guilty of a crime better than a former DA who interviewed the alleged victim and 2 police departments and they don't even have all the information. And then the NFL appointed arbitrator disallowed the report and it's findings and wouldn't allow the alleged victim to be questioned. Didn't ask her if she was willing just said no. The NFL is such a joke, the meaningless suspension of Kicker josh brown, which just so happened to fall on the day the court in texas was to rule on zeke's motion is laughable as well. Then there is the medical expert the NFL had who said she could tell by pictures that the woman was abused, the NFL PA had their own who said that's laughable so the NFL PA requested her at Zeke's arbitration hearing. She didn't show and the NFL lawyers said she was called in to the hospital for emergency. Well it just so happens the nfl pa had an investigator outside her house. She never left, he rang the doorbell to confirm and she was still there at the house. So why lie? There is literally not one instance the NFL looks in any way competent or remotely fair and consistent to me with any of this.

It sure is odd that there are several texts of her conversing about blackmailing him and whether or not her friend should lie about what happened. But there are no texts of her communicating with friends about being scared or hurt or anything that implies she was physically abused. It's literally her word, which nobody who spoke to her believed, and nothing else. I'm 100% certain if there were any texts they too would have been leaked.
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Old Today, 12:00 AM   #111
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Old Today, 01:11 PM   #112
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It's pretty easy to get lost in the weeds of all the salacious 'she-said/he-said' from the transcripts of the NFL investigative reports (they both sound like pathetic, unsympathetic figures), which Elliott's attorneys made public in an attempt to discredit the girlfriend, portraying her as a hard-partying, hard-drinking, drug-taking, promiscuous gold digger. Perhaps they counted on the NFL fans and Cowboys followers NOT noticing that Elliott was there also, present for ALL of it, and often implicated to an even greater degree. Perhaps they were justified in that assumption.

For example, re credibility, Elliot even denied that they were 'dating', despite the facts that he was paying for an apartment for her; he was paying for a leased vehicle for her; he had paid for numerous airline tickets for her to fly to different cities where he was; he sent his bestie with her to Chicago to accompany her to her pregnancy termination, though no explicit reference is made as to whether he (Elliott) paid for that too.

Regarding 'proof of anything': What's the acceptable standard for proof? Should the NFL require video evidence of an NFL player punching a woman in order to impose discipline for violence regarding domestic violence? Should they require DNA evidence of sexual assault?

It seems like you are advocating for 'proof' to a legal standard in a criminal case ('beyond a reasonable doubt'), when an NFL disciplinary proceeding is more akin to a civil case ('preponderance of the evidence'); and in fact, an NFL disciplinary is conducted under Article 46 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, which vests sole and ultimate authority with the Commissioner in determining facts (even if the Commissioner's conclusions are erroneous), issue punishments, and hear appeals. Far from a 'kangaroo court', it is a long-established provision of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, which has been upheld in favor of the NFL and the Commissioner in several court cases.

It is as if NFL players and owners (and certainly NFL fans) take the position, that "Yeah, there is the CBA, and the PCP, and a domestic violence policy, and that's fine, just don't try to apply it to ME or MY GUY."

Also, regarding "credible evidence", the screen shot below of the text message is between the girlfriend and another party who was a mutual friend of both the girlfriend and Elliott. The party who texted "Do you want me to lie...." was actually a longer-term acquaintance of Elliott. In the transcript of the investigative interview conducted by Kia Roberts, the girlfriend alludes to (and appears to show Roberts) other texts in which she says she replied to the person (paraphrasing) "No, don't lie. If you didn't see it, don't say it. Just tell what you saw." The girlfriend says she thought she was being "set up" by the other party (friend of Elliott) with the phrasing of the question, when she had never told the person to lie. So is this conclusive 'credible evidence', or another instance of 'conflicting statements'? For me, it's conclusive of nothing.

Also, regarding the statement posted regarding "You are a black male athlete...", correct me if I'm wrong, but I wasn't able to find either a screenshot of that as a texted message, or as part of the investigative interview transcript. Where I did find it referenced, was in an article in the Daily Mail which said:

Quote:
Elliott will also inform the NFL that he is 100 percent certain that Thompson told him on July 22, You are a black male athlete. Im a white girl. They are not going to believe you.
So this is not a direct quote from the girlfriend; nor even a direct quote from Elliot himself. Instead, what is sounds like is a third-hand (anonymously placed) non-quote from a press flack working for Elliott's attorneys, attempting to inject a race card into the proceedings. Judging (subjectively) from the young woman's interview transcripts, it does not sound consistent with the way she expresses herself, nor with her mindset about inter-racial relationships. And given her past interactions with police departments in both Florida and Ohio, when she had called to report domestic violence incidents, when they failed to arrest him due to conflicting statements, it seems EVEN less likely that she would have made that statement given the authorities' failure to act. What it does NOT does not sound like is evidence, let alone conclusive proof of anything.

There is in fact a lot of evidence--- more than a thousand text message exchanges between Elliott and the girlfriend, photographs of her injuries, medical records, multiple police reports, multiple witness statements, and the opinions of four outside experts who reviewed the evidence. And while much has been made of Kia Roberts' supposed finding that the girlfriend's credibility as insufficient to assess a punishment to Elliott; and the failure of various police departments to arrest Elliott; and the lack of criminal charges being filed; ALL of those parties including Kia Roberts indicated a belief that there had been incident(s) of violence between Elliott and his girlfriend. The police department in Florida; the police department in Columbus; Kia Roberts, Lisa Friel, the four experts who reviewed the evidence. Was the Commissioner supposed to act based on the findings (limited to the investigative interviews) of Roberts alone, effectively leaving the league's response to non-executive? That would have been the coward's way out. Instead, the Commissioner made a very difficult, unpopular decision to impose an established standard of discipline against one of the league's highest profile young stars, on one of the league's highest profile teams, owned by one of the most powerful owners.

The notion that the NFL is only acting to protect its brand? So what! Even if true, the league is acting in a manner that reflects its sensitivity to current public attitudes and values regarding domestic violence. It might not be the most pure motivation, but at least it is a response in the right direction.

Jerry Jones (and a minority of other NFL owners) take the position that they don't want the NFL doing investigative work AT ALL. Why? Because when you investigate, you are likely to find things that you might rather keep hidden from the public--alcoholism, drug use, beating drug tests, domestic violence, promiscuous personal behavior, pregnancies, abortions, etc. Things that make players less marketable; things that make teams less popular. Things that keep players off the field, which keeps teams from winning games, which keeps teams out of the Super Bowl, and prevents owners from making money.

Instead, Jones et al would prefer the old league policy of not acting UNTIL there is a criminal conviction. You can argue that the NFL office isn't acting on the purest motivation ('doing what is right'), but Jones' position is even worse--not doing anything at all, unless a player is charged and/or convicted based on a criminal legal standard.

Any criticism that can be hurled at the league office redounds exponentially to individual owners (and players) who don't want punishment applied to them and their guy.

Ultimately, the public has to determine its own priorities: watching Zeke tote the rock on Sundays, or seeing the league act (even minimally) to curb the phenomenon of domestic abuse within its ranks.

For a lot of reasons, I don't follow professional football anymore, so maybe it's easy for me to know where my priorities are.

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Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
How can the NFL under/overreact when they don't have proof of anything? They had it with Rice, clear as day in that video, and they didn't give a shit until it threatened to affect their bottom line... They also found an email from Josh Brown admitting domestic abuse... They don't have one shred of credible evidence with Zeke, but they're going to punish him anyway because even the PERCEPTION of possible domestic violence affects their bottom line after the Ray Rice fiasco. This isn't about "doing the right thing," it's about protecting the brand. If they actually thought Zeke was guilty of domestic violence, then why isn't he getting banned for life like Rice?

"You're a black male athlete. I'm a white girl. They are not going to believe you."

She's right... The court of law wouldn't convict, but the court of public opinion and Goodell's kangaroo court adhere to no such standards.
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