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Old 07-11-2019, 09:22 PM   #4121
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Morey lying to everyone that there were no Beef between Harden and Paul....lol

Paul isnt staying in OKC, he is going to demand a trade to Miami. Lakers got no contracts for the banana boat.

I still have some hope for Gallo

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Old 07-11-2019, 09:27 PM   #4122
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Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart View Post
I mean, I get some of the RW hate, but this goes a bit too far. He is better than the current Chris Paul by quite a bit.
Their perimeter defense is going to be shit. Both not even try anymore
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:02 PM   #4123
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Man, the NBA Free agency is something else. I gotta recognize that Westbrook is one of my favorite players, so exciting to watch. He has some obvious flaws in his game but I think he is going to improve the Rockets, Chris Paul was declining fast.

As for the Mavs, it's getting increasingly likely we might not make the playoffs with how brutal the West is going to be. So all in on Porzingis coming back, developing chemistry with Luka and our young guys improving now. Hopefully we can work some trades to ditch out our bad contracts or find another good young piece to keep building a contender.
I actually think this trade helps out chances at the playoffs. I don't think the rockets make it.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:16 PM   #4124
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How this trade hurts us is that in luka and kps prime the thunder are going to be absolutely effing loaded
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:55 PM   #4125
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How this trade hurts us is that in luka and kps prime the thunder are going to be absolutely effing loaded
Even with 8+ picks, the odds of getting even one superstar is super low

Rockets arenít Improved, but their draft picks should be 20-30. Not a lot of stars in that range. Other two are swaps. OKC drafts in lottery and Houston most likely drafts 20-30 so OKC only really gets two late firsts here.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:59 PM   #4126
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Even with 8+ picks, the odds of getting even one superstar is super low

Rockets arenít Improved, but their draft picks should be 20-30. Not a lot of stars in that range. Other two are swaps. OKC drafts in lottery and Houston most likely drafts 20-30 so OKC only really gets two late firsts here.
I havenít looked but they are bound to have a few in the first year players are allowed to jump straight from high school again. That year even the 20ís will have huge value. They also have so much ammo to move up for a player or trade for one.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:59 AM   #4127
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Listening to Skin Wade these days is too funny. Claims fans should act rationally and not emotionally while not getting that he's making emotional arguments himself, just at the other end of the available spectrum.
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:08 AM   #4128
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Even with 8+ picks, the odds of getting even one superstar is super low

Rockets arenít Improved, but their draft picks should be 20-30. Not a lot of stars in that range. Other two are swaps. OKC drafts in lottery and Houston most likely drafts 20-30 so OKC only really gets two late firsts here.
The picks are in 2024 and 2026, it's extremely likely they are in the top half of the first round.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:05 AM   #4129
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If this isn't absolute proof that plan powder doesn't work, then nothing is. No contract is untradeable in this league.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:13 AM   #4130
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Their perimeter defense is going to be shit. Both not even try anymore
LOL, THAT is going to be something to watch. 5 on 3 basketball offense v. defense.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:15 AM   #4131
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I would love for OKC to keep tearing down their team and be left with only CP to play on a losing squad with a bunch of young guys. I bet a year or 2 of tanking might even drive him to the table to negotiate a buy out. LOL
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:37 AM   #4132
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We need get Adams from okc
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:37 AM   #4133
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We need get Adams from okc
Not a fan
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:38 AM   #4134
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I can stand CP but if he stays in OKC, I can actually see them being a decent and maybe playoff team. Again as much as I can’t stand him he is a good floor general (PG) and while absolutely declining, he can still be good in the right situation.

CP
SAG
Gallo
?
Adams

with CP being able to run the offense how he want could be a pretty good starting 5 with Schroeder coming off the bench.
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:40 AM   #4135
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Not a fan
Adams might be slightly overpaid but at 25 and his skill set and size he is one of the better fits with this Mavs team. If OKC continues to blow it up, I would be all over trying to get Adams.
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:49 AM   #4136
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OK, we get it. We don't disagree. But pouting about it gets old.
Pouting about others pouting gets old even faster
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:53 AM   #4137
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Adams might be slightly overpaid but at 25 and his skill set and size he is one of the better fits with this Mavs team. If OKC continues to blow it up, I would be all over trying to get Adams.
I'd be OK with Adams. Yeah, he is a bit overpaid considering his lack of range and that he is a terrible free throw shooter, but his contract only has two more years (so we can keep cap space for 2021, plan powder anyone? are we getting Giannis? lol) and he provides good defense and rebounding. He is young and I think we are likely to be resting KP a lot this year, so it would be nice to have a solid starter at Center.

Might take us a few first rounders to snatch him though and other teams might be asking about him given that OKC is in rebuild mode, so I could see the FO not being interested.

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Old 07-12-2019, 09:09 AM   #4138
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Regarding Adams, It's about value. I don't think the Mavs FO wants to spend 25m a year for 13 points and 9 rebounds a year. He's a good player, but his salary really limits the Mavs from getting an ace wing player at some future date.

If Powell starts, Per 36 Minutes, Powell will give you 17 points 9 rebounds
If Adams starts, Per 36 minutes, Adams will give you 15 points and 10 rebounds

This is not to say Powell is a better player inside. Adams is. But Powell spaces the floor a little better, makes the Mavs a little better in transition, and isn't a negative at shooting Free throws. I just don't see a good reason to put Adams on the floor at that price.

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Old 07-12-2019, 09:49 AM   #4139
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Regarding Adams, It's about value. I don't think the Mavs FO wants to spend 25m a year for 13 points and 9 rebounds a year. He's a good player, but his salary really limits the Mavs from getting an ace wing player at some future date.

If Powell starts, Per 36 Minutes, Powell will give you 17 points 9 rebounds
If Adams starts, Per 36 minutes, Adams will give you 15 points and 10 rebounds

This is not to say Powell is a better player inside. Adams is. But Powell spaces the floor a little better, makes the Mavs a little better in transition, and isn't a negative at shooting Free throws. I just don't see a good reason to put Adams on the floor at that price.
Not to dispute the points that you make, but I would like Adams for the space he occupies, not the spacing he creates; the intangibles that he brings in terms of toughness, plus a little opportunistic production.

He is the type of hard-nosed player who would serve as a bodyguard for KP and Doncic, although admittedly he would be a very expensive enforcer.

At the other end of the spectrum for that TYPE of player was Kyle O'Quinn, who filled that role for KP in NY; but O'Quinn just signed with Philly for one-year vet minimum. Probably could've been had if Mavs were interested.

I don't think, though, that you can pass every acquisition opportunity by, waiting for some as yet undetermined 'ace wing player' to sign. My intuition is that Donnie is on the phone with the NYKs every day asking about Ntilikina, and the Knicks just keep hanging up on him; if the Mavs got a future #1 back along with Adams for providing the Thunder some cap relief (and Courtney Lee), then the Knicks might take that future #1 for Ntilikina; or the Mavs could just remove the protections on one of the #1s they already owe the Knicks.

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Old 07-12-2019, 10:02 AM   #4140
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That's the 2nd and 3rd worst contracts in the league being swapped for each other lol. This trade makes the rockets worse
Disagree. I think it makes them better.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:11 AM   #4141
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Just to add to the Adams argument, I believe his stats would be even better by simply not playing with Westbrook. I think he sacrificed his body to blocking out sometime two guys so OKC guards could crash boards. Given the situation, I could easily see him averaging 15 and 15 somewhere else with high efficiency. He does have flaws, such as no range/spacing and he's not a great FT shooter, but he does something no one else on the team can do. Powell's similar per 36 stats are a much different style than Adams'.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:12 AM   #4142
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The Thunder arent giving up a pick for Adams, they are going to ask for one.

They are going to save some with another Paul trade and the 125% rule. And to have someone like Adams in a young lockerroom is good too
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:12 AM   #4143
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I believe OKC hangs on to Adams and deals CP, or negotiates a super low buy out so he can join some other squad. Don't think his ego can handle running that team.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:14 AM   #4144
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The Thunder arent giving up a pick for Adams, they are going to ask for one.

They are going to save some with another Paul trade and the 125% rule. And to have someone like Adams in a young lockerroom is good too
They offered adams for free last week and no one wanted him. He's a negative asset
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:17 AM   #4145
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Not to dispute the points that you make, but I would like Adams for the space he occupies, not the spacing he creates; the intangibles that he brings in terms of toughness, plus a little opportunistic production.

He is the type of hard-nosed player who would serve as a bodyguard for KP and Doncic, although admittedly he would be a very expensive enforcer.

At the other end of the spectrum for that TYPE of player was Kyle O'Quinn, who filled that role for KP in NY; but O'Quinn just signed with Philly for one-year vet minimum. Probably could've been had if Mavs were interested.

I don't think, though, that you can pass every acquisition opportunity by, waiting for some as yet undetermined 'ace wing player' to sign. My intuition is that Donnie is on the phone with the NYKs every day asking about Ntilikina, and the Knicks just keep hanging up on him; if the Mavs got a future #1 back along with Adams for providing the Thunder some cap relief (and Courtney Lee), then the Knicks might take that future #1 for Ntilikina; or the Mavs could just remove the protections on one of the #1s they already owe the Knicks.
I'm certainly not saying that Powell is better. Adams is a better defender and rim protector. But we disagree in total value.

Adam's salary is literally over twice what Powell's is, and he is not, by any metric - defense or offense - twice as good as Powell. He would have to be "Giannis-like" in terms of being a difference maker.... and he's not. The salary is important as it relates to cap space, so it's not just a vacant number.

Even with the newer defensive metrics, Adams would not be twice the defender https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-defense/#fn-1

Even Valanciunas's new contract is 10 million a year cheaper than Adams. I'd like to have Adams, but I don't want him at that price. The stats say he wouldn't make enough of a difference on the Mavericks team to change anything in the standings.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:28 AM   #4146
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I'm not sure how effective Adams would be late in close games. Gets rebound, gets fouled, misses free throws. That is a pessimistic outlook on it, but for his salary I'd rather not have the concern.

Enforcer types are pointless in the NBA now. There is no fighting and the league is nowhere near as physical as it once was. I've read this here and on twitter and it doesn't move my needle. How is Adams any kind of protector or bodyguard for others? Is he going to play full back and escort Luka to the paint, or get in between Luka/KP when an opposing players wants to mouth off or shove them?
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:33 AM   #4147
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I'm not sure how effective Adams would be late in close games. Gets rebound, gets fouled, misses free throws. That is a pessimistic outlook on it, but for his salary I'd rather not have the concern.

Enforcer types are pointless in the NBA now. There is no fighting and the league is nowhere near as physical as it once was. I've read this here and on twitter and it doesn't move my needle. How is Adams any kind of protector or bodyguard for others? Is he going to play full back and escort Luka to the paint, or get in between Luka/KP when an opposing players wants to mouth off or shove them?
He would be taken out for crunch time in any big game situation (if we manage to get in many of those).
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:36 AM   #4148
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I like Adams because the Mavs need rebounding. But, I think it is more likely the opportunity is either Olynyk or Leonard. Do the Mavs need rebounding or a stretch 5? They actually need a bit of both, but I don't see many options for a rebounding/rim protecting 5 that can also occasionally shoot from the perimeter.

Dieng might be a possibility, but are the Wolves interested in Paul? They might be, so that could be a possibility. Dieng's stats have fallen dramatically in the past couple of years, but his PT has also been reduced significantly.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:38 AM   #4149
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I like Adams because the Mavs need rebounding. But, I think it is more likely the opportunity is either Olynyk or Leonard. Do the Mavs need rebounding or a stretch 5? They actually need a bit of both, but I don't see many options for a rebounding/rim protecting 5 that can also occasionally shoot from the perimeter.

Dieng might be a possibility, but are the Wolves interested in Paul? They might be, so that could be a possibility. Dieng's stats have fallen dramatically in the past couple of years, but his PT has also been reduced significantly.
Dieng is a salary dump only. Negative asset. Been shopped for a year plus.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:44 AM   #4150
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I'm not sure how effective Adams would be late in close games. Gets rebound, gets fouled, misses free throws. That is a pessimistic outlook on it, but for his salary I'd rather not have the concern.

Enforcer types are pointless in the NBA now. There is no fighting and the league is nowhere near as physical as it once was. I've read this here and on twitter and it doesn't move my needle. How is Adams any kind of protector or bodyguard for others? Is he going to play full back and escort Luka to the paint, or get in between Luka/KP when an opposing players wants to mouth off or shove them?
I think you've indirectly hit on the dilemma the team is currently facing. Technically, the team doesn't have any glaring holes, BUT it needs a bigger infusion of talent. Well, no matter what, a big acquisition of talent is going to create a logjam somewhere on the team.

So the question here is will KP start and primarily play center? If so, then Adams makes little sense. The flip side is Adams is better than any of our bigs not named KP. AND he is 25 years old to boot. I agree his type of center is lesser valued in today's game, but he is still objectively a big improvement in talent over our current non KP bigs.

I guess this is why they tried for Danny Green or a SF of similar ilk as the logjam is created with a more manageable DFS and Jackson. If we got Green, I doubt Jackson sees the floor much next season.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:45 AM   #4151
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He would be taken out for crunch time in any big game situation (if we manage to get in many of those).
Great. 27mil for a guy we can't afford to have in clutch games.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:52 AM   #4152
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I'm not sure how effective Adams would be late in close games. Gets rebound, gets fouled, misses free throws. That is a pessimistic outlook on it, but for his salary I'd rather not have the concern.

Enforcer types are pointless in the NBA now. There is no fighting and the league is nowhere near as physical as it once was. I've read this here and on twitter and it doesn't move my needle. How is Adams any kind of protector or bodyguard for others? Is he going to play full back and escort Luka to the paint, or get in between Luka/KP when an opposing players wants to mouth off or shove them?
Really? Did you happen to see Ibaka's play for the Raptors in the post-season? Against the Bucks, and the Sixers? Didn't show up as much v. GS because of how depleted they were. But his contribution as a hard-nosed, take-no-shit player was obvious if somewhat unsung in the Raps' championship run.

Not a fan of Draymond Green because he crosses the line into pure cheap-shottery too often, but he (along with David West a year ago) has certainly served that role for the Warriors during their championship runs.

And have you seen Adams set picks? I refer you to the link in my previous post where Adams wipes out Beverly, who was getting kind of frisky with Westbrook, a player with whom he has a long history of delivering cheapshots. There was a message in that pick. Having Adams there to keep defenders heads on a swivel has some enforcement value.

So, yeah, he could be the type of player who would clear a path to the basket for Luka. You can have a rim-runner like Powell, or you can have a guy who hits an 8-ft floater like Adams off the roll.

You can have a rim-running, rim-protecting 5 (say Tyson Chandler), or you can have a stretch 5 (maybe a Vucavic?) who loosens defenses up with outside shooting, and rebounds. I don't see any who actually do both. And weren't people here willing to pay Vuc ~25MM? I'd say he's comparable value to Adams; comparable value, different style.

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Old 07-12-2019, 10:57 AM   #4153
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Just to add to the Adams argument, I believe his stats would be even better by simply not playing with Westbrook. I think he sacrificed his body to blocking out sometime two guys so OKC guards could crash boards. Given the situation, I could easily see him averaging 15 and 15 somewhere else with high efficiency. He does have flaws, such as no range/spacing and he's not a great FT shooter, but he does something no one else on the team can do. Powell's similar per 36 stats are a much different style than Adams'.
You're right...everyone took a hit so Westbrook could chase his triple doubles...
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:59 AM   #4154
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I think you've indirectly hit on the dilemma the team is currently facing. Technically, the team doesn't have any glaring holes, BUT it needs a bigger infusion of talent. Well, no matter what, a big acquisition of talent is going to create a logjam somewhere on the team.

So the question here is will KP start and primarily play center? If so, then Adams makes little sense. The flip side is Adams is better than any of our bigs not named KP. AND he is 25 years old to boot. I agree his type of center is lesser valued in today's game, but he is still objectively a big improvement in talent over our current non KP bigs.

I guess this is why they tried for Danny Green or a SF of similar ilk as the logjam is created with a more manageable DFS and Jackson. If we got Green, I doubt Jackson sees the floor much next season.

Well if they make a move it has to be better than Adams though. Still could use a starting caliber wing. The logjam I don't want is adding a center that isn't going to absolutely bench Powell with more positives than Adams brings, esp given the $$.

For DFS and Jackson, the time is now to prove they are starting caliber. They probably won't have the opportunity next season, may not have it by TDL if Luka and KP are keeping us afloat.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:11 AM   #4155
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Really? Did you happen to see Ibaka's play for the Raptors in the post-season? Against the Bucks, and the Sixers? Didn't show up as much v. GS because of how depleted they were. But his contribution as a hard-nosed, take-no-shit player was obvious if somewhat unsung in the Raps' championship run.

Not a fan of Draymond Green because he crosses the line into pure cheap-shottery too often, but he (along with David West a year ago) has certainly served that role for the Warriors during their championship runs.

And have you seen Adams set picks? I refer you to the link in my previous post where Adams wipes out Beverly, who was getting kind of frisky with Westbrook, a player with whom he has a long history of delivering cheapshots. There was a message in that pick. Having Adams there to keep defenders heads on a swivel has some enforcement value.

So, yeah, he could be the type of player who would clear a path to the basket for Luka. You can have a rim-runner like Powell, or you can have a guy who hits an 8-ft floater like Adams off the roll.

You can have a rim-running, rim-protecting 5 (say Tyson Chandler), or you can have a stretch 5 (maybe a Vucavic?) who loosens defenses up with outside shooting, and rebounds. I don't see any who actually do both. And weren't people here willing to pay Vuc ~25MM? I'd say he's comparable value to Adams; comparable value, different style.
Vuce is head and shoulders better than Adams, different styles or not. I disagree with that comparison.

Lots of players are capable of setting hard screens, I just prefer that not to be one of their best attributes at 27mil.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:29 AM   #4156
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You're right...everyone took a hit so Westbrook could chase his triple doubles...
I didn't say everyone but I can't decipher the tone of this response, sorry Murph!

I know from the games I watched OKC, Adams was doing dirty work on every possession. Kind of an unsung hero on that team and they wouldn't be nearly as good without him.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:43 AM   #4157
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They offered adams for free last week and no one wanted him. He's a negative asset
Link?

I highly doubt this.
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:50 AM   #4158
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Vuce is head and shoulders better than Adams, different styles or not. I disagree with that comparison.

Lots of players are capable of setting hard screens, I just prefer that not to be one of their best attributes at 27mil.
Vuc is the best offensive player we have bee talking about but Adams is a pretty skilled player even though he is not the offensive force that Vuc can be. People talk about metrics and status but itís been shown over and over that winning teams are about. A lot more. Donít get me wrong...he is a bit overpaid but what he brings would be huge for this team.

He is not skilled like Vuc ...but he is a somewhat smooth player around the basket and much more offensively skilled then guys like DJ who can just roll and lob and canít hit anything 2 feet from the basket.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:00 PM   #4159
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I didn't say everyone but I can't decipher the tone of this response, sorry Murph!

I know from the games I watched OKC, Adams was doing dirty work on every possession. Kind of an unsung hero on that team and they wouldn't be nearly as good without him.
I agree with you... I think anyone that was on the court with Westbrook saw their rebounding numbers decrease at least a little so he could chase triple doubles.... With a guy like Adams, he probably saw a significant decrease.
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Old 07-12-2019, 12:05 PM   #4160
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Vuce is head and shoulders better than Adams, different styles or not. I disagree with that comparison.

Lots of players are capable of setting hard screens, I just prefer that not to be one of their best attributes at 27mil.
Fine, we disagree.

But if you're going to upgrade the 5, you gotta pick from what's available now.

Who's better (and gettable) that can be acquired via trade, because history tends to indicate that the perceived top-tier players are unlikely to come to Dallas through free agency, and when they do, kaboom-splat it's a Parsons or a Jordan.

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