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Old 10-13-2020, 08:55 PM   #201
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Not really news, but keeps chatter going..

The Jump on ESPN: “The Dallas Mavericks are gonna be at the head of the line in pursuing Giannis. They want to have a 3rd star” – @WindhorstESPN – via Twitter

The Jump on ESPN: “They [the Mavericks] want to keep their books clear for 2021. I wouldn’t expect them to add any major free agents this year. They’re going to wait” – @WindhorstESPN – via Twitter
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Old 10-14-2020, 12:07 AM   #202
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Old 10-15-2020, 10:38 AM   #203
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Per Sham's latest on The Athletic:



My feeling is we should do whatever we can to add starting-caliber talent this offseason and push as hard as we can to make a deep playoff run next year. I'd be hesitant to take on big-time dead money in pursuit of those players, but honestly there isn't a lot of that in the league right now. I think our best pitch to the Giannis types of next year's free agency class would be as successful a season as possible. If those elite players want to come here, we will find a way to make it happen.

Edit: We're also listed as potential suitors for Jerami Grant, but not for Derrick Jones, Jr. At the prices they're each likely to command, I'm much more interested in DJJ.

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Old 10-15-2020, 11:26 AM   #204
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Per Sham's latest on The Athletic:



My feeling is we should do whatever we can to add starting-caliber talent this offseason and push as hard as we can to make a deep playoff run next year. I'd be hesitant to take on big-time dead money in pursuit of those players, but honestly there isn't a lot of that in the league right now. I think our best pitch to the Giannis types of next year's free agency class would be as successful a season as possible. If those elite players want to come here, we will find a way to make it happen.

Edit: We're also listed as potential suitors for Jerami Grant, but not for Derrick Jones, Jr. At the prices they're each likely to command, I'm much more interested in DJJ.
I mean if Jerami Grant wants to come here for the MLE itís a no-brainer. Unless we have a salary dump lined up or trade a pick to Denver in SnT so as not to lose him for nothing. But he would really have to want to leave. Otherwise wouldnít he just stay with Denver? They could give him MLE or go over to re-sign him. Porter Jr looks great but doesnít bring any of the on ball defense Grant does.
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Old 10-15-2020, 11:41 AM   #205
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I think Grant is potentially the PERFECT front court fit with KP and DFS. I think his upcoming paycheck will require him to go up one more level to be a value player, but as far as TYPE, I would pounce.

And, it's possible that Denver won't want to pay him. He and MPJ have quite a bit of overlap, and they are already a high priced team. Either Grant or Milsap is gone this year, imo.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:28 PM   #206
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After watching this team get sliced up defensively and knowing that RC loves small lineups the guy who i think fits the best on this roster is Jerami Grant

I know it's a pipe dream but that dude can defend multiple positions and knock down 3's.

Pairing him up with DFS would finally give the mavs two big wing defenders to matchup.

He's not a glamour name and the mavs will most likely pass anyway because of the Giannis situation.

Grant I think puts this team into the west contender status.

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Old 10-16-2020, 01:13 AM   #207
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After watching this team get sliced up defensively and knowing that RC loves small lineups the guy who i think fits the best on this roster is Jerami Grant

I know it's a pipe dream but that dude can defend multiple positions and knock down 3's.

Pairing him up with DFS would finally give the mavs two big wing defenders to matchup.

He's not a glamour name and the mavs will most likely pass anyway because of the Giannis situation.

Grant I think puts this team into the west contender status.
Oh absolutely. And I think heís easily moveable if you have Giannis in hand. Itís just a question of how the dominoes on this would fall as heís a UFA right? But Denver has his Bird Rights? So they can let Millsap walk or re-sign Millsap at MLE and go over for Grant. Hard to know with Covid cap coming. Maybe they take back a first for him, like they have last summer? It would mean us moving Delon and someone else though right?
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Old 10-16-2020, 01:28 AM   #208
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I think Grant is potentially the PERFECT front court fit with KP and DFS. I think his upcoming paycheck will require him to go up one more level to be a value player, but as far as TYPE, I would pounce.

And, it's possible that Denver won't want to pay him. He and MPJ have quite a bit of overlap, and they are already a high priced team. Either Grant or Milsap is gone this year, imo.
Heís never going to be a playmaker or a guy that is entirely comfortable putting the ball on the deck, but heís better than,say, DFS at it and could continue to grow in that facet as heís still young. One of the adjustments I noticed they made as the Clipper series went on was having him attack space when he got the ball behind the arc. His shot wasnít falling and it helped get him in a rhythm getting some easy buckets and getting to the line. He stopped overthinking and just played.

Itís so hard to say exactly what his or any non-star but better than MLE player market will be. Maybe a few guys take a two year with a player option in year two hoping for post Covid bump? Guys like Gallo, Bertrans, Grant, Joe Harris, Wood. Do the take a little more $ from some crap team with cap room or MLE from contender or stay flexible? Will be interesting.
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Old 10-16-2020, 09:06 AM   #209
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I'd prefer Wood slightly over Grant, but either would be great additions. If KP goes down, which there is a solid chance of it, Wood could slide from starting PF right into KP's role in our system and not a lot would change.
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:46 AM   #210
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I'm reading some stuff today that leads me to believe Dallas is one of the front runners for Oladipo. Now, I don't think he's nearly the answer - he's not nearly as good as his reputation is, at tis point - but, the fact that he's expiring makes him a "big swing" that doesn't end the Giannis dream.

I could see it happening, tbh.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:01 PM   #211
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I'm reading some stuff today that leads me to believe Dallas is one of the front runners for Oladipo. Now, I don't think he's nearly the answer - he's not nearly as good as his reputation is, at tis point - but, the fact that he's expiring makes him a "big swing" that doesn't end the Giannis dream.

I could see it happening, tbh.
Not much interest in Oladipo. I think weíve seen his career year and heís much better with the ball in his hands than without. I guess it would come down to cost. Pretty sure at minimum they would ask for #18, and two of Brunson, Seth or Maxi. Maybe #31 as well. Assuming Dodo is a no go in trade for us unless it brings back someone like Beal

We are worried about Powell and then would be worried about Oladipo regaining his explosiveness. Pass.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:22 PM   #212
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Not much interest in Oladipo. I think weíve seen his career year and heís much better with the ball in his hands than without. I guess it would come down to cost. Pretty sure at minimum they would ask for #18, and two of Brunson, Seth or Maxi. Maybe #31 as well. Assuming Dodo is a no go in trade for us unless it brings back someone like Beal

We are worried about Powell and then would be worried about Oladipo regaining his explosiveness. Pass.
If what I've read today is true, yes, his value is "a mid 1st round pick" and anything else included would be simply to make the trade legal. I think that's interesting, because it's much lower than his fans would've thought and pretty much right in line with what I would've guessed.

Like you, I don't think he's the answer here, but that's because he was really only good for like one season, right before the injury. After the injury, in a limited sample size, he has been ROOOOOOGUH. I don't think a lot of fans realize this, and they only remember him by reputation.

But, there IS a CHANCE he starts to get better again. If they trade for him, I won't throw a party, but there is a chance that he's that secondary playmaker they want. If he ever regains his trajectory, there's a chance he's a good two-way player, the kind we all think they need. But the part that makes me buy into the rumor that the Mavs have at least a little interest is that he's on an expiring deal. For a team that's still holding onto the Giannis idea, like Dallas (maybe a better way of phrasing this is "the idea that they'll only one shot in Luka's career to use cap space for anything") I can see the contract, alone, being attractive. If they could get that done WITHOUT giving up Hardaway's expiring deal? Definitely moving Wright, and possibly something else with guaranteed money past this season? I can see them jumping on that and seeing #18 as a pretty low price to pay.

You get a year of seeing whether Oladipo helps (I'm not hopeful there) and if he doesn't, BOOM. Max cap space.
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:17 PM   #213
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Yeah the only interest I'd really have in Oladipo is cap relief... I don't think his days as a starter are over, but he's not a player I'd want to invest in beyond next season even if we whiff on Giannis.

Kirk Your Enthusiasm had an interesting idea in the wake of D'Antoni/Morey leaving the Rockets... maybe feeling around to see if we could get Covington from them. I'm guessing we'd send something #18/DFS/Jackson. What do you guys think? If that isn't the right package, what would you send Houston for the best available 3&D guy in today's market?
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:23 PM   #214
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Kirk Your Enthusiasm had an interesting idea in the wake of D'Antoni/Morey leaving the Rockets... maybe feeling around to see if we could get Covington from them. I'm guessing we'd send something #18/DFS/Jackson. What do you guys think? If that isn't the right package, what would you send Houston for the best available 3&D guy in today's market?
I like the player, the fit and the price (would substitute someone else for DFS, who Kirk undervalues for some reason) but I donít think the Mavs are in the high priced role player business until after they get this 3rd difference maker they seem to be after.
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:37 PM   #215
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No thanks to Robert Covington. Why would we trade DFS who is 26, has two years/ 8 million left on his deal for Covington who is 30 and has two years/ 24 million left on his deal.

Why in the world would we trade away someone who does 90% of what Covington does at 33% of the price and then add picks on top?

Some suggestions drive me insane.
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:49 PM   #216
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No thanks to Robert Covington. Why would we trade DFS who is 26, has two years/ 8 million left on his deal for Covington who is 30 and has two years/ 24 million left on his deal.

Why in the world would we trade away someone who does 90% of what Covington does at 33% of the price and then add picks on top?

Some suggestions drive me insane.
For whatever reason, Kirk’s big message lately has been replacing DFS. I don’t get it at all. He keeps talking about how fans overvalue a guy who wasn’t even drafted, which is fine and true, but he’s a long, athletic 3&D wing who knows and accepts his role, all on a team friendly contract. That’s what literally every team is looking for right now. There aren’t enough of them in the league.

Are there better versions of that player in the league? Yes, but he’s not at all the weak link in this chain, imo. If anything, I’d like to see them add two more players just like him.

Covington is better, but imo he’s more of a natural 4/small 5 these days. I think he’s a fit to play WITH DFS, but not instead of him. Covington’s minutes would come at the expense of Kleber, imo, who is also a valuable contributor.

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Old 10-16-2020, 03:33 PM   #217
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No thanks to Robert Covington. Why would we trade DFS who is 26, has two years/ 8 million left on his deal for Covington who is 30 and has two years/ 24 million left on his deal.

Why in the world would we trade away someone who does 90% of what Covington does at 33% of the price and then add picks on top?

Some suggestions drive me insane.
Covington is a much better fit at PF next to Porzingis, and he's a significantly better and more valuable defensive player than DFS. A healthy Covington is a fringe DPOY candidate. And he's been a monster from the right corner three his whole career. I love Dorian but he's probably never going to make an All-Defense team, and this season has been the only time he's even been a remotely adequate shooter.

I absolutely believe we should be making win-now trades. DFS will probably be a more valuable player than Covington three years from now but today I think there's a sizable gap between them. And as much fun as this season was, I would be pretty disappointed if we missed out on improving our roster in pursuit of dry powder.
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Old 10-16-2020, 03:39 PM   #218
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And as much fun as this season was, I would be pretty disappointed if we missed out on improving our roster in pursuit of dry powder.
If thatís how you feel, I think you should prepare yourself for disappointment.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:26 PM   #219
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No way we’d move DFS in a deal for Cov, as others said above. That contract is truly one of the best in the league. And he’s still improving, albeit as a guy who is very nearly at his ceiling. He hit enough clutch 3s this season that it didn’t seem to be flukey. We need more athletes his size on this team. If they’ll take Brunson and #18 and Delon for matching Covington that’d be worth doing. Covington has had injury concerns of his own though.
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Old 10-16-2020, 07:27 PM   #220
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yeah i really think the Mavs are valuing DFS, Seth and Kleber. Contributionwise and also contractwise. So i think they only move one (or more) if they are able to trade for an allstar level type player.

I really like Covington and would love to have him. But also add him to the three mentioned player. So a package would be around Brunson, Wright and picks and i dont think thats enough

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Old 10-16-2020, 08:49 PM   #221
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Covington is a much better fit at PF next to Porzingis, and he's a significantly better and more valuable defensive player than DFS. A healthy Covington is a fringe DPOY candidate. And he's been a monster from the right corner three his whole career. I love Dorian but he's probably never going to make an All-Defense team, and this season has been the only time he's even been a remotely adequate shooter.

I absolutely believe we should be making win-now trades. DFS will probably be a more valuable player than Covington three years from now but today I think there's a sizable gap between them. And as much fun as this season was, I would be pretty disappointed if we missed out on improving our roster in pursuit of dry powder.
This was a valid opinion before his time in Houston where he was borderline terrible.
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:02 PM   #222
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So Gobert started to follow Cuban on Twitter a few days ago

Probably means nothing but the guy is still a solid backup option after the Giannis pipedream (probably together with Jrue Holiday)
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:29 PM   #223
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So Gobert started to follow Cuban on Twitter a few days ago

Probably means nothing but the guy is still a solid backup option after the Giannis pipedream (probably together with Jrue Holiday)
Holiday should be our #2 target next year if we can't get Giannis. He's basically the perfect type of wing player to put next to Luka. Defense, shooting, playmaking. Only drawback is he's over 30, but I think he's the type of player that can be productive into his mid 30s.
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:12 AM   #224
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I think Bertans would be a good bench/rotation addition.
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:16 AM   #225
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Why not just re-signing THJ for 100m?

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2020

Yes, this team need a 3rd star/scorer.

But this guy cant be a guard with a bad defense. Not with Luka on the team, who need to take his breather at the defensive end. We need defense (specially perimeter/wing defense) MUCH more than offense
I am thinking someone like Jevon Carter, 42.5% from 3 and plus size guard who can defend with some grit!?
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Old 10-26-2020, 01:50 PM   #226
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Everyone keeps talking about trading #18. I thought we couldn't trade any more first rounders until 2025?
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Old 10-26-2020, 02:26 PM   #227
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Everyone keeps talking about trading #18. I thought we couldn't trade any more first rounders until 2025?
You are correct. We can't trade the #18 pick.

However, we CAN trade players all we want, so we can negotiate with teams to trade the pick after it becomes a specific player. "if ______________ is available, we draft him for you and then trade you the player"

Heck, we could even agree to trade the 18th pick regardless of who is available. "give us assets, and we'll let you pick who we draft at #18 and immediately send him your way"

We can negotiate it now, but the trade can't be official until after we pick a player in this year's draft
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Old 10-26-2020, 03:27 PM   #228
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Everyone keeps talking about trading #18. I thought we couldn't trade any more first rounders until 2025?
And there is no reason to trade our picks unless we get a superstar/borderline superstar in return, so I really don't think there is a worry there.

We have plenty of players with value if we want to make trades. Luka and our playoff performance has elevated the team's value.

There are no B role players available that #18 can't fill. And we already have a team full of such players anyway.

Players from 10 to about 25 all have a similar value outlook.
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Old 10-26-2020, 03:45 PM   #229
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You are correct. We can't trade the #18 pick.

However, we CAN trade players all we want, so we can negotiate with teams to trade the pick after it becomes a specific player. "if ______________ is available, we draft him for you and then trade you the player"

Heck, we could even agree to trade the 18th pick regardless of who is available. "give us assets, and we'll let you pick who we draft at #18 and immediately send him your way"

We can negotiate it now, but the trade can't be official until after we pick a player in this year's draft
Ah, ok, yeah that makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
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Old 10-26-2020, 03:48 PM   #230
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And there is no reason to trade our picks unless we get a superstar/borderline superstar in return, so I really don't think there is a worry there.

We have plenty of players with value if we want to made trades. Luka and our playoff performance has elevated the team's value.

There are no B role players available that #18 can't fill. And we already have a team full of such players anyway.

Players from 10 to about 25 all have a similar value outlook.
100% agree. Aside from the fact that it's a deep draft for solid players, this is probably the best draft position the Mavs will have for a very, very long time. I'd much rather see what we can get that pick than trade for Covington or someone similar.
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Old 10-26-2020, 03:49 PM   #231
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Pretty good trade proposal from Duncan Smith on twitter:



I'm a big Otto Porter, Jr. guy so trading Powell + fringe rotation guys (plus shedding Wright's deal) seems like a win to me. We're a lot thinner depth-wise if Porter gets hurt, and frankly there's over a 50% chance he misses some significant time here, but the upside of a healthy contract year OPJ would be hard for me to pass up.

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Old 10-26-2020, 04:05 PM   #232
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Pretty good trade proposal from Duncan Smith on twitter:



I'm a big Otto Porter, Jr. guy so trading Powell + fringe rotation guys (plus shedding Wright's deal) seems like a win to me. We're a lot thinner depth-wise if Porter gets hurt, and frankly there's over a 50% chance he misses some significant time here, but the upside of a healthy contract year OPJ would be hard for me to pass up.
Saw those trades as well. I'd do the first two he proposed but not the Drummond one.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:06 PM   #233
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I'm starting to side with SMC on Bane. He has all the tools to be a really good starting guard. Great shooter too. And his weaknesses are overcome by his strength, and his older age will let you know what you're getting at least. Not a huge ceiling, but he really doesn't have many holes in his game.

Funny we mention Hield, well, draft a better defending Hield in Bane.
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:12 PM   #234
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I'd do that Porter deal.

Best part of that deal is the roster spots. Without a trade, we basically have no spots and we come back with last year's roster plus our two draft picks.
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Old 10-26-2020, 08:35 PM   #235
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Man, I think some of you are on a collision course with an iceberg of disappointment. The idea that they'll make a fairly splashy deal AND draft two players isn't very realistic, imo. I feel like the draft capital is gone if they get a trade they like.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:19 PM   #236
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Man, I think some of you are on a collision course with an iceberg of disappointment. The idea that they'll make a fairly splashy deal AND draft two players isn't very realistic, imo. I feel like the draft capital is gone if they get a trade they like.
I agree, I think we either make a trade that costs us one of the picks (#18 seems more likely IMO) or we draft two players, but I can't see us making any sort of meaningful trade AND getting two rookies we plan on keeping. That would be fun though!

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Old 10-27-2020, 12:08 AM   #237
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I’m still hoping we can get a useable and moveable player on a good deal with MLE. Whether it’s Burke, Saric, Ibaka, Millsap. Collect assets. This season, if it happens, is going to be all about depth. And we’ve got 3 injured players at the moment who may or may not be back.

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Old 10-27-2020, 06:55 AM   #238
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Man, I think some of you are on a collision course with an iceberg of disappointment. The idea that they'll make a fairly splashy deal AND draft two players isn't very realistic, imo. I feel like the draft capital is gone if they get a trade they like.
Sooo you're saying the only way to make a good trade is to involve picks? To me, that's the old way of Mavs doing. If they haven't learned the value of picks in today's NBA, then that is squarely on them and their ineptitude.

And if for some reason you're trading away multiple players for one, then the draft is actually THAT much more important.

The Porter trade was just someone spitballing btw. Still, there is absolutely NO way his value is three quality players plus the 18th pick.

Talented but injury-prone guys like Porter and Hayward have little value right now. If some team is dumb enough to give up valuable picks for them, then by all means let them do that.
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Old 10-27-2020, 07:44 AM   #239
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Mavs are too loyal to trade Powell without giving him a chance to return
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:02 AM   #240
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Sooo you're saying the only way to make a good trade is to involve picks?
I'm saying that the only things they have of value (that they can trade and still be a playoff team) are picks, with the possible exception of Wright, who wasn't in the rotation.

Curry, Kleber, DFS, Brunson and Boban are all usable players (good, even) on GREAT contracts, so they definitely have value, but not the kind we're constantly seeing in trade proposals from fans. They fit in the system here, both on and off the court. Based on that and (again) their ideal contractual situations I have a hard time seeing any 1-for-1 swaps involving those guys that don't hurt more than they help. And, if they send 2-3 of them out for one player they'll run into depth problems really quickly.

The Mavs might value this draft capital more highly than they have in the past, but I doubt they're planning to put themselves in a position wherein anyone they might draft MUST contribute in order for them to make the playoffs. That would be insane.

I can see them chasing one of the following two (general) paths:
  1. A simple trade of Wright for whatever expiring contract they can get. Hopefully it's a player of similar value but whose fit makes him an upgrade here, but not necessarily. I think getting off Wright's money is their primary goal this next month. If the deal is a simple one, I could see them drafing players with both of their picks.
  2. Combining Wright and #18 for a player who is actually an upgrade, even in a vaccum. For some of the more splashy deals out there I can even see them including one of the value players above. I think the Wright/#18 package is what they'll take shopping though.

Gotta remember that a rookie is only valuable to a team who believes they have a role for him. The Mavs are in the business of getting back to the playoffs and showcasing Luka to attract a big fish next summer. That's their endgame, whether we like it or not. So, they need to improve in a stable way, if possible, but not take on any money past next season. Unless they believe that they can draft a guy who will immediately contribute to winning more than anyone on that value list above, I wouldn't expect them to value their pick more than any of them. Alternatively, a team with developmental minutes to spend (non-playoff teams) would probably value the pick MORE than any of the players mentioned.

Which brings us to the final (and probably most important) point: when you're a buyer, it's not up to you to set the price. Teams dangling players who are attractive, either for on-court reasons or because of their expiring contractual status (or both), are presumably doing so with something in mind that they'd like to accomplish through such a deal. If the player(s) in question is GOOD, then logic dictates that the team is focused on getting younger, retooling, rebuilding, whatever you want to call it. Would a team like that want a 27 year old undrafted player who the Mavs have built into a nice complementary piece on a good team (which this hypothetical trade partner probably isn't, especially after trading away one of their "good" players) or would they rather have the draft capital to select their own young player - one who'll make more sense for their new timeline?

To me, all of that adds up to mean that #18 is extremely "in play" right now. Not sure they'll find a deal they think is worth doing, but I do think finding a way to use the pick to get better immediately (while simultaneously inching them closer to max space next summer) is their preference.

We'll see.

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