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View Poll Results: Should we trade for Rajon Rondo?
Yes, get Rondo at all costs. 12 29.27%
It depends what we give up. 26 63.41%
No, I don't want him at all. 3 7.32%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-18-2014, 10:00 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Five-ofan View Post
One question I have about this deal, is there any chance whatsoever that if we make this deal monta agrees to come off the bench and we start either Devin or jae at the 2?
I would LOVE to see Ellis come off the bench. He would be amazing in an instant offense role. Unfortunately he is probably going to opt out and be a free agent at the end of the year and accepting a 6th man role would cost him a ton of money on his next contract
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:18 AM   #82
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Who do we replace Wright with if he's gone? smith? Okafor? Sarge?
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:42 AM   #83
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Lins TPE expires tomorrow, so i guess we know pretty soon if Morey is willing to outbid us.

But the "insider" on clutchfans aka Moreys b*tch who leaks there the rumors Morey wanna have leaked says the Rockets are after Brewer with the exception and prefer to keep their payroll cleaner.

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Old 12-18-2014, 11:03 AM   #84
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Giving up a back up center and parts for a top 5 point guard is a no-brainer. If the knock on Rondo is that he can't shoot then we are in luck, because everyone else on this team does shoot. We suck at defense and rebounding. He's an upgrade in both areas. As much as it sucks giving up Wright, our team will instantly be better and we will have financial flexibility to keep the core of Dirk, Chandler, Parson, Ellis and Rondo for years to come. That could be appealing to keep Rondo here after he becomes a FA in the offseason. It could also prolong Dirk's career, which we all want to see.

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Old 12-18-2014, 11:10 AM   #85
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Also, if we get Rondo and we start scoring 102 points per game, instead of 110 points per game, but start only giving up 92 points per game instead of 102 points per game, I'd rather do that.
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:15 AM   #86
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Pros
We'd be trading offense (which we have too much of) for defense
We need defense
We'd be getting the #1 rebounding PG in the game
we need rebounding
We'd be getting one of the toughest competitors in the game
We need toughness
We'd be getting a guy who creates assists on 44% of his possessions (also #1)
We'd be replacing or supplementing Nelson/Felton/Harris
We need a stronger PG position.
Cost (?)

Cons
Cost (?)
Can he play with Ellis? Ellis needs the ball to be most effective
Can we keep Ellis?
We'd still have no three point shooting
Wright is our only effective big off the bench if he's included
Rondo can be a P.I.T.A
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:27 AM   #87
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Hmm...

- Spacing problems on offense
- He is an "interesting" character
- Needs the ball in his hands (Other guys share the load)
- Loss of Wright would be tough the way he plays this year

So, no?
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:47 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Kante View Post
Hmm...

- Spacing problems on offense
- He is an "interesting" character
- Needs the ball in his hands (Other guys share the load)
- Loss of Wright would be tough the way he plays this year

So, no?
Wright is an UFA this summer. He could come back, but I totally agree. The dude is our 6th man sparkplug and our only good backup big. Plus he's fantastic playing with Harris on the second unit.
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:59 AM   #89
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I will say that if Rondo joined the team, then our starting five would be all pretty close in very, very good talent.

And sometimes things happen for a reason. Funny that this news comes out after Nelson's worst game as a Maverick.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:06 PM   #90
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Just a thought on the Rondo and Ellis both needing the ball in their hands to be effective thing…Rondo had a ton of success with Pierce, and Pierce very much an on-ball kind of player. Now, there is the stuff about Ray and Rondo out there, but IMO as an outside observer that Reggie Miller type role that Ray Allen slid into as Rondo was coming into his own was the best thing for Ray and the C's (on the court, anyway).

Monta's terrific with the ball, but he's far more decisive than your typical Melo-esque ball stopper, and I do think he can play off the ball (just not when the guy handling the ball is a shoot-first PG like Jennings). He's got some areas of the floor where he can spot up effectively, and if he catches the ball in space and on the move it's nearly impossible to stop him getting what he wants. And Rondo is as good as it gets passing to cutters and setting guys up when they come open off screens. Every other player in the Mavs' starting lineup, Monta included, would benefit from his ability in that regard, IMO.

The lack of shooting with Rondo would be more of a concern. I don't think there's any sugar-coating that can be done there, and I don't expect him to follow in Kidd's footsteps by all of a sudden developing range. The loss of Brandan's second unit offense would also hurt. But the Mavs are in such bad shape at starting PG, and Rondo would be such a massive upgrade over Jameer in every respect other than shooting, that I don't see how it would make sense to pass up a trade for Rondo at this point unless Boston's asking price on picks was unreasonable, or the conversations with Rondo and Duffy about the prospects of Rondo sticking with the Mavs after this season weren't going well.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:08 PM   #91
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I appreciate how Wright has developed with the Mavs but it's amazing to me that people are hesitant to deal him for Rondo. IMO it's a no-brainer. Wright has been fantastic, efficient, and has great chemistry with the squad but he's limited in what he can do because of his size. He accumulated most of his stats during a stretch in December where we weren't playing many contenders. He quite frankly is not that good against physical bigs... and we can expect to see a few in the West playoffs.

I think people are overstating the inability of Ellis and Rondo to coexist. I think it actually helps Ellis to have another ball handler on the floor and alleviates some pressure on him. I don't think people realize how much Ellis has been asked to do. We're initiating everything through him, Nelson has been utterly useless.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:19 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
Cons
Cost (?)
Can he play with Ellis? Ellis needs the ball to be most effective
Can we keep Ellis?
We'd still have no three point shooting
Wright is our only effective big off the bench if he's included
Rondo can be a P.I.T.A
I also hear Rondo tends to repeat the same things over and over.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:29 PM   #93
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The moment I saw the poll I was like, YES, GET RONDO AT ALL COSTS PLEASE LORD ALMIGHTY! Then I was like oh shiz, maybe I'm going overboard, nah, maybe, balls, no, yes, NO! GET HIM. So I voted. Then I saw who else voted, saw Underdog and knew I made the correct choice.

All hail UD.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:30 PM   #94
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Yes I have to wonder why someone like rondo has now fallen to a first round pick. It screams personality issue to me.

Plus I'm kind of shocked how little concern of his inability to shoot better than a blind 3rd grader there is. I mean come on 33% FREE THROW percentage.

TBH I do not like basketball players who cannot shoot unless they are shaq.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:31 PM   #95
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the idea is growing on me.

We desperately need guard/perimeter defense
We desperately need someone who can bring toughness and rebounding
8.3pts, 7.5reb, 10.3ast, 1.7stl

Will he ever be even decent shooting jumpers? (25% from range). Can he even make a FT? (33.3% this year)
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:32 PM   #96
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Will we have hack a rondo out there? Will he have to be benched at the end of games? Boston doesn't care, they stink anyway.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:37 PM   #97
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Yes I have to wonder why someone like rondo has now fallen to a first round pick. It screams personality issue to me.
No, its because the Celtics missed to trade him 1-2 years ago.

Rondo is now a 6 months rental, nothing more. This factor kills his entire trade value. The Celtics drafted a PG and there are rumors that Rondo is tired of the rebuild.

So no team gonna add more in a trade than an average player and an average pick if the guy is an UFA in a few months.

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Old 12-18-2014, 12:45 PM   #98
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The point is: we're not a contender with our current roster, this is clear, 2nd round material at best. RC himself can't replace the holes we have. What are the odds that a better trade will show up this season? Are we gonna wait another year?

Rondo is a gamble we MUST take. Comes with risk, but we need to take that risk. Fills our worst position this year and adds defense. Plus, he is coming too cheap for the player he is (and tbh, i can't see the celtics doing this). But if they do, hell YES!!
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:47 PM   #99
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I understand those who don't want to give up Wright but I think this potential deal helps solve all of our problems (perimeter defense, rebounding, floor leadership, mental attitude/toughness and interior defense).

Mavs would be forced to find a true backup center with size to replace Wright which has been one of our greatest needs from the beginning. Wright is great and fun to watch but that game against the grizz was brutal to watch.

On another note...I'm wondering how much the GS game prompted Donnie to begin or escalate negotiations for Rondo.

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Old 12-18-2014, 12:52 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by grndmstr_c View Post
Just a thought on the Rondo and Ellis both needing the ball in their hands to be effective thing…Rondo had a ton of success with Pierce, and Pierce very much an on-ball kind of player. Now, there is the stuff about Ray and Rondo out there, but IMO as an outside observer that Reggie Miller type role that Ray Allen slid into as Rondo was coming into his own was the best thing for Ray and the C's (on the court, anyway).

Monta's terrific with the ball, but he's far more decisive than your typical Melo-esque ball stopper, and I do think he can play off the ball (just not when the guy handling the ball is a shoot-first PG like Jennings). He's got some areas of the floor where he can spot up effectively, and if he catches the ball in space and on the move it's nearly impossible to stop him getting what he wants. And Rondo is as good as it gets passing to cutters and setting guys up when they come open off screens. Every other player in the Mavs' starting lineup, Monta included, would benefit from his ability in that regard, IMO.

The lack of shooting with Rondo would be more of a concern. I don't think there's any sugar-coating that can be done there, and I don't expect him to follow in Kidd's footsteps by all of a sudden developing range. The loss of Brandan's second unit offense would also hurt. But the Mavs are in such bad shape at starting PG, and Rondo would be such a massive upgrade over Jameer in every respect other than shooting, that I don't see how it would make sense to pass up a trade for Rondo at this point unless Boston's asking price on picks was unreasonable, or the conversations with Rondo and Duffy about the prospects of Rondo sticking with the Mavs after this season weren't going well.
This is a great, great post. Very compelling point about difference between Rondo and Jennings.

I was pretty skeptical on this subject even before these rumors broke last night. But I'm completely on board for three primary reasons:

1. I think this is quite possibly the *only* plausible move that has a chance to improve the Mavs' defense and rebounding enough to be a contender. The other four pieces of the Mavs starting lineup are the core. And they are what they are. If you can't get Rondo or someone like him, I think you're facing the possibility of have to break up the core (likely Monta) to improve upon this team any further.

2. Tyson's level of play this season means he'd going to get another major contract this offseason. ~15Mil a year, I would expect. Once that happens, the Mavs are effectively out of cap space. Because of that, I expect the Mavs to operate as an over the cap team this season and for the foreseeable future. That means that you're back to being limited to exceptions and trades to improve this team. Acquiring a quality player with Bird rights is a huge piece of upgrading when you're over the cap.

3. I think Brandan Wright is going to be offered a larger role somewhere else next year. If that happens, you lose him for nothing and have no salary cap space to replace him. That makes moving him for a controllable asset this season very attractive.

Having said all that, perhaps the most concerning part of this trade is that it leaves the Mavs with a gaping hole at backup Center and very little assets to go get one.

I wonder if they're pondering moving Devin for a solution there.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:53 PM   #101
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Giving up a back up center and parts for a top 5 point guard is a no-brainer.
Well, duh. Hell, it's an even a no-brainer for a Top 10 PG. Unfortunately Westbrook, Curry, CP3, Lowry, Conley, Kyrie, Rose, Parker, Wall, and Lillard aren't on the market. Hell I'd do it for Teague, Lawson, D-Will, or Bledsoe with no qualms too. When you get down to a league average PG who happens to be a terrible fit for our league best offense though, that's a little different.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:57 PM   #102
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It's much much easier to find a replacement for Wright than adress our problems at PG, defense, rebounding, etc, for this season... And Rondo is a proven winner in his carrer imo... No-brainer if it doesnt involve monta, tyson, parsons of dirk ofc
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:57 PM   #103
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Well, duh. Hell, it's an even a no-brainer for a Top 10 PG. Unfortunately Westbrook, Curry, CP3, Lowry, Conley, Kyrie, Rose, Parker, Wall, and Lillard aren't on the market. Hell I'd do it for Teague, Lawson, D-Will, or Bledsoe with no qualms too. When you get down to a league average PG who happens to be a terrible fit for our league best offense though, that's a little different.
But he's a fantastic fit for our league worst rebounding and our bottom 5 defense.

Isn't that more important than fitting with an already uber-elite offense? If we fall to, say, 8th in offense, but climb to 10-15 in defense, that's probably a trade we should all take. And I doubt our offense falls that much. I agree he's a really bad fit offensively, but he's replacing Jameer freaking Nelson.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:01 PM   #104
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I'd much rather have Avery Bradley.

One question I have about this deal, is there any chance whatsoever that if we make this deal monta agrees to come off the bench and we start either Devin or jae at the 2?

The issue with rondo is that playing him and monta together is a lot like playing him and Jennings together and we saw how that worked
Would you rather see Devin start, in part, because of his improved three point shooting?

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Old 12-18-2014, 01:02 PM   #105
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Also, if we get Rondo and we start scoring 102 points per game, instead of 110 points per game, but start only giving up 92 points per game instead of 102 points per game, I'd rather do that.
If a below average defender could improve our defense by 10 points per game, that would be quite a magic trick! Again, these are completely unrealistic expectations for Rondo. Here's what Rondo gets you:

-1.5 rebounds per game over an average PG
-The ability to create an OK possession with the ball in his hands
-Semi-competent NBA defense.

That's it. He also makes it impossible to get elite offense unless surrounded by 4 shooters (not 3, 4, so it won't work with Chandler out there), and the things that he does get you are easier to replace than 20 minutes of the best finishing ability and shot-blocking you'll find on an NBA bench.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:09 PM   #106
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If a below average defender could improve our defense by 10 points per game, that would be quite a magic trick! Again, these are completely unrealistic expectations for Rondo. Here's what Rondo gets you:

-1.5 rebounds per game over an average PG
-The ability to create an OK possession with the ball in his hands
-Semi-competent NBA defense.

That's it. He also makes it impossible to get elite offense unless surrounded by 4 shooters (not 3, 4, so it won't work with Chandler out there), and the things that he does get you are easier to replace than 20 minutes of the best finishing ability and shot-blocking you'll find on an NBA bench.
Chandler creates spacing. More spacing than a lot of shooters.

The idea that what Rondo gives you is easier to replace than Wright is pretty farfetched.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:12 PM   #107
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Question: How good is Rondo's defense? I know it's a million times better than Jameer Nelson's, but how much better is it than Devin Harris's? And just in general terms, how good of a defender is he, actually? I don't watch a lot of C's games but I hear a lot of talk about how his defense is overrated..
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:27 PM   #108
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Question: How good is Rondo's defense? I know it's a million times better than Jameer Nelson's, but how much better is it than Devin Harris's? And just in general terms, how good of a defender is he, actually? I don't watch a lot of C's games but I hear a lot of talk about how his defense is overrated..
Capable and opportunistic are the words that comes to my mind, though it's an opinion formed a while back that hasn't been subjected to any recent critical review. Definitely not the kind of defender that Five-o's boy Avery Bradley is. It's his ability to defend either backcourt position that I'd value more highly. That and his rebounding.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:33 PM   #109
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If a below average defender could improve our defense by 10 points per game, that would be quite a magic trick! Again, these are completely unrealistic expectations for Rondo. Here's what Rondo gets you:

-1.5 rebounds per game over an average PG
-The ability to create an OK possession with the ball in his hands
-Semi-competent NBA defense.

That's it. He also makes it impossible to get elite offense unless surrounded by 4 shooters (not 3, 4, so it won't work with Chandler out there), and the things that he does get you are easier to replace than 20 minutes of the best finishing ability and shot-blocking you'll find on an NBA bench.
I hope you're trolling.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:34 PM   #110
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I'll leave this here

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Old 12-18-2014, 01:38 PM   #111
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Rondo averages almost a triple double. This is a chance to get Jason Kidd in his prime except he lacks the size and 3 point shooting that Kidd had later in his career. Its a no brainer IMO. If all they want is Brandon Wright and a few other guys? This is the prime example of a low risk high reward type of deal. IMO, Brandon Wright doesn't have a future in Dallas anyway. I like the progress he's made but the guy has probably played himself into a big contract that I don't think Dallas will want to play especially to a backup. As long as Chandler and Dirk are healthy he'll never rack up much minutes.

This team lacks perimeter defense and shooting and while Rondo can't contribute much to the lack of shooting he can contribute to making it easier for others to score.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:40 PM   #112
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Everyone keeps talking about what an upgrade Rondo is over Nelson. Just curious, why don't we try benching Nelson and starting Harris? I mean, it's at least worth a shot to see if Harris can be our starting PG isn't it? 30-35 mpg for Harris and 10-15 for Barea? We're sure that wouldn't work?
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:41 PM   #113
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If a below average defender could improve our defense by 10 points per game, that would be quite a magic trick! Again, these are completely unrealistic expectations for Rondo. Here's what Rondo gets you:

-1.5 rebounds per game over an average PG
-The ability to create an OK possession with the ball in his hands
-Semi-competent NBA defense.

That's it. He also makes it impossible to get elite offense unless surrounded by 4 shooters (not 3, 4, so it won't work with Chandler out there), and the things that he does get you are easier to replace than 20 minutes of the best finishing ability and shot-blocking you'll find on an NBA bench.
Putting him into our lineup would change the way we run our offense and defense. I don't think he will make a 10PPG difference because of his defensive skills alone. I think we will have to change the way we run our offense. This may slow down the game. Thus, our offense and defense numbers would go down together. At least that's the way I imagine it turning out. Sorry if I didn't explain it well enough.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:50 PM   #114
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Everyone keeps talking about what an upgrade Rondo is over Nelson. Just curious, why don't we try benching Nelson and starting Harris? I mean, it's at least worth a shot to see if Harris can be our starting PG isn't it? 30-35 mpg for Harris and 10-15 for Barea? We're sure that wouldn't work?
Despite sucking i think Nelson's game fits better with our starting unit and Devin's with our second unit. Not sure if thats the reason. But Harris starting anyway wouldnt be much of a upgrade imo.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:53 PM   #115
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Question: How good is Rondo's defense? I know it's a million times better than Jameer Nelson's, but how much better is it than Devin Harris's? And just in general terms, how good of a defender is he, actually? I don't watch a lot of C's games but I hear a lot of talk about how his defense is overrated..
It's below league average for a starting NBA PG, but he's closer to league average than he is to Devin Harris defensively. It's a small, incremental upgrade. I read Haralabos Voulgaris on Twitter a lot. He's the most successful NBA bettor in the world, and he spends 50+ hours a week watching NBA soecifically focusing on individual defense so he can chart the value of each player defensively where statistics are a lot less reliable. He was constantly ripping Rondo's D as being vastly overrated and below league average even back when the Celtics were consistently making the playoffs and he still had young legs and was consistently putting in good effort. Rondo's been MUCH worse than that on D the last 2 years.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:57 PM   #116
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Everyone keeps talking about what an upgrade Rondo is over Nelson. Just curious, why don't we try benching Nelson and starting Harris? I mean, it's at least worth a shot to see if Harris can be our starting PG isn't it? 30-35 mpg for Harris and 10-15 for Barea? We're sure that wouldn't work?
If the roster stays pat, I look at that as kind of a last resort. The second unit functions well as is, and at least for now the team is competitive enough that they'd probably be better off exercising patience with Jameer in the hope that things will eventually start clicking for him.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:57 PM   #117
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Also, everyone's assuming that Rondo's been struggling the last 2 years due to motivation, but he's also had a lot of legit injury trouble in that time. It's very possible that he's just lost a step due to injuries that he'll never get back, and the Rondo you saw in the playoffs 3 years ago just doesn't exist anymore.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:00 PM   #118
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Everyone keeps talking about what an upgrade Rondo is over Nelson. Just curious, why don't we try benching Nelson and starting Harris? I mean, it's at least worth a shot to see if Harris can be our starting PG isn't it? 30-35 mpg for Harris and 10-15 for Barea? We're sure that wouldn't work?
You can give Harris 48 a minutes a night. He's still not Rondo.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:16 PM   #119
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Here are Haralabos Voulgaris's comments on Twitter today:

"No way in hell the Mavs should trade for Rondo if they have to include B. Wright."

"Who exactly is going to be their first big off the bench? Curious. And Rondo is not a good defensive PG."

(On idea of this being a move to set Mavs up for next year): "ya I guess, there chances of doing anything this year would drop pretty big tho. This year is wide open."

"I don't know where the rumor got started that Rondo was a great defensive PG."
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:21 PM   #120
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After watching Brandon Wright get absolutely mauled by Gasol and Randolph when we played the Grizzlies, I'm ok with dealing him for Rondo. It's clear he's not good enough defensively to slow down the bigs from Memphis and San Antonio. Sure Wright is good offensively, but our offense isn't a problem. I don't think giving up our backup 5 will make our offensive less than championship caliber.

Rondo, on the other hand, is a significant upgrade everywhere except for shooting. And it's not like we were even getting that with Nelson lately. So what's the problem? There was way more concerns with Monta when we signed him and Carlisle turned his career around. Did everybody forget how much of an absolute demon Rondo was when he was surrounded by playmakers?

We aren't playing for 2nd place. We aren't building for the future. We are going all in for a championship. Adding Rondo is a no-brainer.

You hit the key point with Wright. I like him but teams with strong inside players abuse him. If Mavs can get Rondo with Wright as the centerpiece then they should do it.
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