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Old 05-14-2009, 09:43 AM   #1121
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So only Juliet bit it in the finale, right? Miles is still with us?

We effectively killed off all of Widmore's crew except miles in Season 4-5.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:44 AM   #1122
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there is ZERO chance they "reset" anything.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:56 AM   #1123
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I hope you're right, sike. But how can we just assume that?

I mean...it was a freaking nuclear bomb. I know that tunnel was deep but...that would make a hell of a damned crater and radiation that would linger for decades.

I thought the perceived depth of it was interesting. The Swan wasn't that far underground, right? Not even close if I recall looking down the hatch in the beginning of season 2 correctly.

Only the real world constraints of actors that have since moved on from the show and wouldn't come back...Walts age...Michael Emerson....would lead me to believe that they won't "hit the reset button" on the series. Creatively, I think they would do that. If they could do it from a practical stand point, why wouldn't they start over again from the crash, or maybe the plane does land at LAX. Maybe just their consciousnesses survive and travel in time...or to a new timeline. I think that is a place they would take the show if they could. They're crazy.

Sayid's injury is a pointer towards something on the weird side of this argument. I thought they made it pretty clear that he wasn't going to make it, and yet I expect to see him on the show next year.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:56 AM   #1124
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Poor Sawyer fell in love with a schizophrenic hottie.

Um, for the record, I'm totally lost. But, what if the bomb's electromagnetic pulse actually fed the pocket instead and made it insanely unstable? Not sure what happened to the explosion though.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:03 AM   #1125
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Here is an interesting article that implies that Juliet is not dead because of some info that Entertainment Weekly got a hold of.

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00024255.html

Also says that Lindelof teased "Season six will feel a lot like season one"
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:04 AM   #1126
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just remembered who told Ben to spare "Locke" and do whatever "Locke" wanted....smokey in an Alex suit (or we assume Smokey). Was "Locke" only acting surprised by that revelation (when Ben told him on the beach last night), or was he genuinely surprised?

very interesting question.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:10 AM   #1127
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This is obvious, but this entire show seems to be based upon a wager of sorts...."Jacob" seems believe in the incarnate goodness in man (or some such) and is determined to show it, "Esau" believes that whatever man touches (at least on the Island) ends in corruption.

"You still want to prove me wrong" - Esau

"You are wrong" - Jacob
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:12 AM   #1128
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Quote:
just remembered who told Ben to spare "Locke" and do whatever "Locke" wanted....smokey in an Alex suit (or we assume Smokey). Was "Locke" only acting surprised by that revelation (when Ben told him on the beach last night), or was he genuinely surprised?
THAT is very contradictory.

Also contradictory...Jacob was trying to get Hurley back to the island. He saved Sayid, presumably because he needed to come back to the island.

But Zombie Locke/Evil-Anti-Jacob-Guy was the one who told Richard, to tell the real Locke that he needed to bring everyone back.

So we have both sides of this wanting to bring the O6 back to the island?

Something doesn't add up.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:25 AM   #1129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco View Post
THAT is very contradictory.

Also contradictory...Jacob was trying to get Hurley back to the island. He saved Sayid, presumably because he needed to come back to the island.

But Zombie Locke/Evil-Anti-Jacob-Guy was the one who told Richard, to tell the real Locke that he needed to bring everyone back.

So we have both sides of this wanting to bring the O6 back to the island?

Something doesn't add up.
well if Esau doesn't get the others back...Ben doesn't get back...so Esau needs them all back for his loophole to work...but Jacob wants them all back to prove Esau wrong about mankind...right?
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:26 AM   #1130
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"Other things I liked about the episode: the reveal of the statue in its full prime (though we still did not get to see its front). The statue is of Taweret, the Egyptian goddess of fertility. And living under her is...Jacob. Therefore, the answer to the question "What lies in the shadow of the statue," is Jacob, or, as Richard put it in Latin, "He who will protect us."

found this here... http://blog.lostpedia.com/
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:28 AM   #1131
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also interesting.. Also great: We finally saw why Pierre Chang had a prosthetic arm -- it was crushed in the Incident. Miles' cry of "Dad!" was also great, showing that Miles is finally getting his father figure, even if it is thirty years too late.

from the same link as above
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:30 AM   #1132
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"There is one end, and the rest in between is just progress" - Jacob
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:33 AM   #1133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
also interesting.. Also great: We finally saw why Pierre Chang had a prosthetic arm -- it was crushed in the Incident. Miles' cry of "Dad!" was also great, showing that Miles is finally getting his father figure, even if it is thirty years too late.

from the same link as above
And he lost his hand as a very direct result of Jack bringing the bomb (that would later explode) to the Swan site.

This helps with those that believe the bomb is part of the incident, and that history did not get changed.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:37 AM   #1134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco View Post
And he lost his hand as a very direct result of Jack bringing the bomb (that would later explode) to the Swan site.

This helps with those that believe the bomb is part of the incident, and that history did not get changed.
seems to point that way...which could still mean there is something to Richard saying, "I watched them all die"
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:43 AM   #1135
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These are the casting calls for the finale that I believe to have been for Jacob and Anti-Jacob.

Quote:
[JASON]
Any ethnicity, late 30s-60s. Former soldier. A leader of men. Smart but more than that – he is wise. Strong and straightforward. The words he says are always listened to and they carry gravitas. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurrings. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...

[SAMUEL]
Any ethnicity, 40s-60s. A corporate raider looking to take over his next company. Powerful, devious and obtuse. He has a cunning intellect and a strong sense of danger. GUEST STAR two episodes. May lead to recurring. Looking for someone very interesting and very special for this role...
Those are interesting because it gives you a little insight as to how the producers would describe the characters, while still trying to be a little coy. And the names on LOST casting calls are always, always wrong of course.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:54 AM   #1136
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And another thing...

(and I'm sorry to you people like thig who will try to sort out this thread on Friday, because I know it's a complete mess already...)

Why did no one mention "OH YEAH WE CAN SAVE LIKE 300 LIVES on 815" as a good reason for detonating the bomb?

Instead it was "Oh I'm Juliet and I got my poor little heart broken" or "Oh, I'm Jack and I lost kate and Sawyer beat me up" etc, etc....And I found myself wondering if I actually like any of these people any more. It all turned so selfish and petty in the face of altering history. What about Charlie? What about Frogurt???

At least they mentioned Claire and acknowledged that someone else would be affected by this other than their petty love quadrangle.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:57 AM   #1137
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bc they only care about themselves?
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:12 AM   #1138
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you guys have had some great insight. here are some random thoughts:

1. i think maybe the ben vs. widmore battle has just been the underlings duking it out. maybe widmore has been representing esau while ben has (blindly) been represeting jacob's interests? just a thought.
2. i also think that season 6 will focus on the "losties living in the present" trying to travel through time to save everyone before the bomb detonates. richard said "i saw them die with my own eyes." somehow he survives, but everyone else gets (as sike would say) "blowed up."
3. i find it weird that little ol' ben could kill the powerful jacob with a quick little stab. seemed sorta anticlimactic.
4. so, we got the rose and bernie story...where the crap is claire??

discuss.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:16 AM   #1139
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I have read all the comments here, I don't have alot of time today unfortunately to debate this... but there are some interesting comments here. I have thought that the statue was Taweret from the beginning (when we saw the back of it) because she was the protector of pregnant women or somesuch... so the statue gets destroyed and pregnant women stop delivering, right?

Also, that is a profound statement Flaco about the saving of the rest of 815. And it's a sad testament to the majority of us on Earth... that we are worried about ourselves over the well being of the majority. Makes me humbled to think about that when I think about my faith, but I digress.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:34 AM   #1140
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Sexy said, "3. i find it weird that little ol' ben could kill the powerful jacob with a quick little stab. seemed sorta anticlimactic." I think its fair to say that it only happened bc Jacob allowed it...bc he had chosen to respect the "free will choices" of his people. So if Ben, the "One time leader of Jacob's people/experiment/test/argument with Esau" decides in his free will to kill Jacob..., based upon his own ground rules, Jacob must allow it.

Did that make sense?

Lost makes U2 thankful for Jesus....sweetness.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:40 AM   #1141
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EW presents their 7 page review...

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1550...278837,00.html

Must read.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:45 AM   #1142
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The weaving at the beginning made me think of the Greek fates, which would be another contradiction since Jacob promoted free will.


Maybe the "red herrings" are the black/white shirts that Jacob and OtherJacob were wearing. That seemed too obvious, IMO.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:49 AM   #1143
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If it wasn't the real Locke, how did he know that the door to the hatch was where Locke and Ben first met?

also, when Ilana agreed to help out Jacob, it probably meant her bringing Locke's body back to the island. So when the fake Locke sees the new Locke, something messed up will probably happen that will be a benefit for Jacob IMHO. I mean, he didn't even defend himself against Ben, maybe he knew he wasn't going to die.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:55 AM   #1144
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"They're coming" - Jacob's last words. There is no way Richard will buy what fake Locke is going to be selling now.

I sure hope Jacob isn't the bad guy and Esau the good guy....I'd hate to hear good guy say thing like, "Do you have any idea how much I want to kill you?" Of course, if we're talking Greek Fable or Legend, "Good and Evil" can be mere matters of perspective.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:57 AM   #1145
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Let us next reconsider the following conversation

Quote:
MILES: You owe me a fish taco.

BRAM: Sorry about that, but your apartment's being watched. And we had to try our best to talk you out of working for Charles Widmore.

MILES: I have no idea who that is.

[Bram climbs out of his seat, positioning himself closer to Miles.]

BRAM: He's the man who chartered the boat you'll be getting on next week. And, my friend, you do not want to get on that boat. Do you know what lies in the shadow of the statue?

MILES: No, can't say that I do.

BRAM: Then you're not ready to go to that island. But if you come with us--all those things you've spent your life trying to find out? You'll know. You'll know who you are, Miles--why it is you have a gift, and most of all, you'll know about your father.

MILES: I don't know where you've been getting your intel, but I stopped caring about my father a long time ago. What I do care about is money. So, I'll tell you what. You want me to pass on going to the Island? It's gonna cost you double what they offered--$3.2 million.

BRAM: We're not paying you anything. All the money in the world isn't gonna fill that empty hole inside you, Miles.

[Bram climbs back into the front passenger seat.]

MILES: That's sad, isn't it?

BRAM: Toss him!

[The two masked men grab Miles by the shoulders, the van brakes in an empty street, the door opens, and Miles is summarily ejected from the van, landing on his feet. Bram calls out through his open window.]

BRAM: You're playing for the wrong team!

MILES: Yeah? What team are you on?

BRAM: The one that's gonna win.
I'm more confused than ever.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:12 PM   #1146
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BRAM: We're not paying you anything. All the money in the world isn't gonna fill that empty hole inside you, Miles.

MILES: That's sad, isn't it?

I remember thinking at that moment that the guy who plays Miles is actually a very good actor. The way he delivers that line is very poignant.

of course....there is also this GOLD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlKhfEWchf8
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:49 PM   #1147
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of course....there is also this GOLD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlKhfEWchf8
OMG, that's awesome. Why have I never seen this movie?
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:14 PM   #1148
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thats actually the best scene in the entire movie...so you might not be missing much.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:24 PM   #1149
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Instead it was "Oh I'm Juliet and I got my poor little heart broken" or "Oh, I'm Jack and I lost kate and Sawyer beat me up" etc, etc....And I found myself wondering if I actually like any of these people any more. It all turned so selfish and petty in the face of altering history. What about Charlie? What about Frogurt???

At least they mentioned Claire and acknowledged that someone else would be affected by this other than their petty love quadrangle.
One of the things about Lost (and one of the ways they constantly create tension) is that there's not really a strong, likable protagonist. There are some relatively strong characters (Sawyer, Sayid), and some likable ones (Hurley, etc.), but there's nobody who's both capable/strong and genuinely empathic and selfless.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:37 PM   #1150
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I found myself rooting for Sawyer like no other this episode. I was screaming at the TV during the Jack fight scene and Juliet's betrayal, wondering why Sawyer was the only one who wasn't absolutely off-the-wall crazy.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:42 PM   #1151
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By the way, I'm going to be disappointed if the "plot twist" is that Jacob is actually evil and his dark-shirt-wearing homie is the good one.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:49 PM   #1152
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One of the things about Lost (and one of the ways they constantly create tension) is that there's not really a strong, likable protagonist. There are some relatively strong characters (Sawyer, Sayid), and some likable ones (Hurley, etc.), but there's nobody who's both capable/strong and genuinely empathic and selfless.
Sawyer jumped right out of a helicopter to help some peeps last season...I'd call that pretty selfless.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:51 PM   #1153
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By the way, I'm going to be disappointed if the "plot twist" is that Jacob is actually evil and his dark-shirt-wearing homie is the good one.
I'm not sure it will be that clear cut...nor would I expect something so simplistic.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:56 PM   #1154
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So is Locke dead?

Will Terry O'quinn be playing evil spirit guy for all of next year? How do you think he felt when he found out he'd been playing someone else for the last 10 episodes?

With Jacob dead (?) would there be a reason for him to keep up his ruse? If indeed that's what's going on.

Or is that all evidence that suggests we are indeed hitting the reset button and playing some of this over again? Locke can't die a fool can he? He never got redemption?
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:04 PM   #1155
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Or is Locke's redemption that he got all of the 06 back by dying a martyr?

I imagine Locke will be coming back...I also don't want to assume its as simple as "Esau" is just wearing a Locke mask. There could be more to it than that.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:08 PM   #1156
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Sawyer jumped right out of a helicopter to help some peeps last season...I'd call that pretty selfless.
He jumped outta the helicopter to save Kate. But still, he has gotten better. He's probably the closest thing there is to a likable protagonist.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:10 PM   #1157
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I agree, LD. In season 5 he is undoubtedly the "good guy".
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:19 PM   #1158
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Sawyer jumped right out of a helicopter to help some peeps last season...I'd call that pretty selfless.
well, sawyer's baby mama indicated in an episode earlier this season that there were more than likely selfish motives to him jumping out of the helicopter as well.


just watched the episode... right now i will just say WTF.

then i will respond to other comments later.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:22 PM   #1159
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I've missed bunches of episodes, but Hurley buying as many seats on the return plane that he could was pretty awesome.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:24 PM   #1160
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well, sawyer's baby mama indicated in an episode earlier this season that there were more than likely selfish motives to him jumping out of the helicopter as well.
he is not the same man now as he was then....no?
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