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Old 06-08-2021, 12:35 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by Dallas41 View Post
He's not getting that type of money...
I'm just looking at what other guys are getting paid that are worse than Derozen...Tobias HArris gets 34 mill, Hayward gets 28.5....Wiggins at 29 million...Otto Porter at 28 million....Derozen is every bit as good as those guys if not better and he's still in the prime of his career.

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He easily gets 25 so it depends on how much Dallas might have to go over that number. He had an all star type season. THJ is getting 20 million. Itís not a huge jump to think DeRozan gets 30 somewhere. I would hope Mavs could get it done for 26-28.
Exactly...
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Old 06-08-2021, 12:36 AM   #402
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What is this random list of players?
Not sure his intention but it seems like the Mavs could've had all of those players at some point and they settled for less.
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Old 06-08-2021, 07:35 AM   #403
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Not sure his intention but it seems like the Mavs could've had all of those players at some point and they settled for less.
Malcom Brogdon was traded, so Iím not sure how attainable he was. For all we know we had an offer on the table, and the Bucks just liked the Pacers package better. That said heís still a player id like to add. He solves a lot of our issues with shooting and defense. I think he can be used as a secondary ball handler to. Donnie should be in the phone seeing what a trade centered around Brogdon/Turner for KP looks like.
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Old 06-08-2021, 09:36 AM   #404
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Malcom Brogdon was traded, so Iím not sure how attainable he was. For all we know we had an offer on the table, and the Bucks just liked the Pacers package better. That said heís still a player id like to add. He solves a lot of our issues with shooting and defense. I think he can be used as a secondary ball handler to. Donnie should be in the phone seeing what a trade centered around Brogdon/Turner for KP looks like.
Brogdon was a sign and trade and traded for draft picks. The Mavs didn't even offer him a contract at all. Instead they spent money on guys not even on the team anymore.

And i've seen nothing to suggest the Mavs even wanted Brogdon. I don't think it was a matter of being outbid.

Pacers don't want or need KP. Especially for that package.

We are at the stage right now where we are going to have to pay someone to take on his contract. Offer up a young player or a 1st round pick.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:22 AM   #405
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Outside of D.Mitchell the rest of the Jazz shot just 34% from the FG

The difference is despite the poor shooting that team has dudes who can defend if their shots aren't falling.

That last defensive possession where they ran 3 different Clippers off the 3Pt line was great effort and hustle without even fouling

Close outs like that never happens for the Mavs because we have a bunch of one trick pony type players.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:51 PM   #406
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Outside of D.Mitchell the rest of the Jazz shot just 34% from the FG

The difference is despite the poor shooting that team has dudes who can defend if their shots aren't falling.

That last defensive possession where they ran 3 different Clippers off the 3Pt line was great effort and hustle without even fouling

Close outs like that never happens for the Mavs because we have a bunch of one trick pony type players.
Not to take away from your point because we do need two way players, but the team missing 21 straight shots in the first quarter affect that percentage. It also shows the teams ability to come back in games. Mavs don’t have that ability either.

Even with the bad shooting from the Jazz, they still hit 17 threes last night.

Mavs game 7: 10 threes
Mavs game 6: 11 threes

Point is the Mavs are built on a house of cards. The cards is Doncic. He hides how bad this team really is in all facets.
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Old 06-09-2021, 01:17 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Dallas41 View Post
Outside of D.Mitchell the rest of the Jazz shot just 34% from the FG

The difference is despite the poor shooting that team has dudes who can defend if their shots aren't falling.

That last defensive possession where they ran 3 different Clippers off the 3Pt line was great effort and hustle without even fouling

Close outs like that never happens for the Mavs because we have a bunch of one trick pony type players.
Yea, having a lot of value guys like DFS and MAXI are great but when you rely on them it puts a heavy burden on Luka. Neither of those 2 can create their own offense. They are leaned on to defend but when you face potent offenses and offensive players they can't get it done. Can't knock them because they aren't that caliber of players.

Neither is THJ. It's great when he catches fire for a handful of games but when he isn't he doesn't bring anything else.
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Old 06-09-2021, 02:14 PM   #408
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Yea, having a lot of value guys like DFS and MAXI are great but when you rely on them it puts a heavy burden on Luka. Neither of those 2 can create their own offense. They are leaned on to defend but when you face potent offenses and offensive players they can't get it done. Can't knock them because they aren't that caliber of players.

Neither is THJ. It's great when he catches fire for a handful of games but when he isn't he doesn't bring anything else.
Utah Jazz, Phoenix, Nuggets all have guys like this on their team. Just like THJ. They simply have better offenses too.

Nuggets are down Jamal Murray and Will Barton and aren't missing a beat.
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Old 06-09-2021, 02:57 PM   #409
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Utah Jazz, Phoenix, Nuggets all have guys like this on their team. Just like THJ. They simply have better offenses too.

Nuggets are down Jamal Murray and Will Barton and aren't missing a beat.
Right, but they don't rely on them the same way we do. The common theme is that they have capable and mobile big men. Defensive capable Bigs. All multi tool bigs. Nuggets have an MVP, Nugs, Jazz and PHX all have better rosters.
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Old 06-09-2021, 03:21 PM   #410
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Right, but they don't rely on them the same way we do. The common theme is that they have capable and mobile big men. Defensive capable Bigs. All multi tool bigs. Nuggets have an MVP, Nugs, Jazz and PHX all have better rosters.
I agree but that's the issue. The issue isn't having guys like THJ on your team. The issues is not having better personnel.

And if KP was better this roster probably would be fine. But he's not. He does not fit well with this team offensively. His skillset is being wasted in this offense and he's resorting to......looking like Lauri Markannen.
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Old 06-09-2021, 04:31 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by Dallas41 View Post
Outside of D.Mitchell the rest of the Jazz shot just 34% from the FG

The difference is despite the poor shooting that team has dudes who can defend if their shots aren't falling.

That last defensive possession where they ran 3 different Clippers off the 3Pt line was great effort and hustle without even fouling

Close outs like that never happens for the Mavs because we have a bunch of one trick pony type players.
Amazingly the Jazz won. I was led to believe by Donnie that you couldn't win if your best player scores 45. That dang Donovan Mitchell needs to move the chess pieces around better
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Old 06-09-2021, 04:39 PM   #412
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I agree but that's the issue. The issue isn't having guys like THJ on your team. The issues is not having better personnel.

And if KP was better this roster probably would be fine. But he's not. He does not fit well with this team offensively. His skillset is being wasted in this offense and he's resorting to......looking like Lauri Markannen.
THJ isn't THE problem, but him taking up too much cap space is in the way of improving the personnel. I mentioned Maxi and DFS because they are good value players but we shouldn't be overly reliant on them. They are great rotation players but having all 3 of them starting just isn't a contender. Especially with KP playing like a scrub.

I don't think this roster would be great even if we have Gobert anchoring the defense and running PnR. There is no one else to help Luka create offense. It may be fine, but fine isn't going to beat the Clips...or any other real contender. If KP were playing at an all star level and sossmehow became a great 2 way player we would still need more help.

Man, the FO has their work cut out for them.
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:36 PM   #413
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THJ isn't THE problem, but him taking up too much cap space is in the way of improving the personnel. I mentioned Maxi and DFS because they are good value players but we shouldn't be overly reliant on them. They are great rotation players but having all 3 of them starting just isn't a contender. Especially with KP playing like a scrub.

I don't think this roster would be great even if we have Gobert anchoring the defense and running PnR. There is no one else to help Luka create offense. It may be fine, but fine isn't going to beat the Clips...or any other real contender. If KP were playing at an all star level and sossmehow became a great 2 way player we would still need more help.

Man, the FO has their work cut out for them.
Iím holding out hope they can trade KP to fill that salary/talent gap. With THJ itís one in the hand two in the bush. He likes being here instead of trying to convince a Normal Powell to leave Portland where he did relatively well.
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:43 PM   #414
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THJ isn't THE problem, but him taking up too much cap space is in the way of improving the personnel. I mentioned Maxi and DFS because they are good value players but we shouldn't be overly reliant on them. They are great rotation players but having all 3 of them starting just isn't a contender. Especially with KP playing like a scrub.

I don't think this roster would be great even if we have Gobert anchoring the defense and running PnR. There is no one else to help Luka create offense. It may be fine, but fine isn't going to beat the Clips...or any other real contender. If KP were playing at an all star level and sossmehow became a great 2 way player we would still need more help.

Man, the FO has their work cut out for them.

So what do you think is a fair and realistic deal for THJ?
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:46 PM   #415
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Iím holding out hope they can trade KP to fill that salary/talent gap. With THJ itís one in the hand two in the bush. He likes being here instead of trying to convince a Normal Powell to leave Portland where he did relatively well.
I'm telling you guys...I have no inside sources lol..but based on past history....I believe in order to get Powell in here we have to overpay to get him. I'm thinking in the 25-30 million range.

And like I said above....THJ isn't the issue....the issue is this team needs to find better talent because THJ should not be the 2nd best player or the 2nd best scorer on this team. Something has to be done with KP. Not sure if its trade but something has to be done where he either nets us a #2 scoring option or he steps up and becomes our #2. But on the latter...I just don't see him fitting in this offense with Luka.
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:50 PM   #416
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I'd consider Walker if the price was right. They would almost assuredly want Brunson as just a starter.

Listen, we're not getting superstars this summer unless the FO is trolling. At least Kemba is a realistic option. I'd want Smart as well though.
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:54 PM   #417
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I'd consider Walker if the price was right. They would almost assuredly want Brunson as just a starter.

Listen, we're not getting superstars this summer unless the FO is trolling. At least Kemba is a realistic option. I'd want Smart as well though.
That's where i'm at. You just never know with the Celtics. I'd like to think they would blow up their team and just build around Tatum and Brown. But if they do that.....I don't know if we have what they'd want. Is KP enticing to them?

Just without looking at salaries....can I get Robert Williams/Marcus Smart for KP/Brunson? Pretty sure they'd have to add some salary somehow.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:30 PM   #418
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Iím holding out hope they can trade KP to fill that salary/talent gap. With THJ itís one in the hand two in the bush. He likes being here instead of trying to convince a Normal Powell to leave Portland where he did relatively well.
I don't see the Mavs moving KP. He didn't come close to living up to his contract. The wild outside chance is if he demands a trade and even then who can take that risk on? It's a massive risk.

Norman Powell may not even have Dame leading the team, who knows.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:36 PM   #419
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I'm fine with keeping THJ provided they have a serious plan for the offseason. The past two offseasons tell me not to be confident in that.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:41 PM   #420
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I'm telling you guys...I have no inside sources lol..but based on past history....I believe in order to get Powell in here we have to overpay to get him. I'm thinking in the 25-30 million range.

And like I said above....THJ isn't the issue....the issue is this team needs to find better talent because THJ should not be the 2nd best player or the 2nd best scorer on this team. Something has to be done with KP. Not sure if its trade but something has to be done where he either nets us a #2 scoring option or he steps up and becomes our #2. But on the latter...I just don't see him fitting in this offense with Luka.
Norman Powell has a player option for his last year. He will get offers to bail and if Dame decides he's had enough there, why would Powell stay? I don't think it would take 30 mil. I'd give him 25 though.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:42 PM   #421
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That's where i'm at. You just never know with the Celtics. I'd like to think they would blow up their team and just build around Tatum and Brown. But if they do that.....I don't know if we have what they'd want. Is KP enticing to them?

Just without looking at salaries....can I get Robert Williams/Marcus Smart for KP/Brunson? Pretty sure they'd have to add some salary somehow.
I couldn't imagine taking the risk of Kp without being able to ditch Kemba.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:49 PM   #422
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So what do you think is a fair and realistic deal for THJ?
Idk, good question. I'd start at what he makes now or maybe 3/63 on a slightly backloaded deal and set a hard line at 22m because he is very 1 dimensional. If we had other guys who could penetrate and play decent D...or guys who were lockdown defenders I would pay little more. We desperately need 2 way players not specialists and THJ is a specialist. We already made a mistake with Dwight's contract imo. We can't keep doing that.
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:21 PM   #423
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Norman Powell has a player option for his last year. He will get offers to bail and if Dame decides he's had enough there, why would Powell stay? I don't think it would take 30 mil. I'd give him 25 though.
If Lillard leaves.....all of a sudden Powell's role is magnified.....He all of a sudden takes the usage that Lillard leaves behind with McCollum. As a result...he increases his market value as well.
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:22 PM   #424
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Idk, good question. I'd start at what he makes now or maybe 3/63 on a slightly backloaded deal and set a hard line at 22m because he is very 1 dimensional. If we had other guys who could penetrate and play decent D...or guys who were lockdown defenders I would pay little more. We desperately need 2 way players not specialists and THJ is a specialist. We already made a mistake with Dwight's contract imo. We can't keep doing that.
You keep saying we don't need guys who are 1 dimensional......what exactly are you referring too...because Paul George and Kawihi Leonard are guys who aren't 1 dimensional.....
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Old 06-09-2021, 09:48 PM   #425
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You keep saying we don't need guys who are 1 dimensional......what exactly are you referring too...because Paul George and Kawihi Leonard are guys who aren't 1 dimensional.....
I've said it a few times. Derozan is not a great defender but he brings more than 1 tool. He can penetrate at will, from that he scores and gets 7 assist per game. He's a smart player and would provide another veteran player who can share the load offensively. Norman Powell is another because he can play defense, shoot and dribble the basketball, unlike TJH. Kawhi and George are elite and not even in the convo. If we can pay THJ 25m, why not pay Derozan 28-30m. You're getting way more.
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Old 06-09-2021, 10:46 PM   #426
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Derozan is in a different league than THJ. Tim is a let it fly guy and nothing else. He never saw a three point shot he didn't like. He can't handle, pass, defend, or drive. Derozan does all of those things minus being a great defender. Still take his D over Tim's though.

The main issue is losing the 3 point shooting in a league that is predicated on it. In hindsight, probably keep Curry and trade THJ.
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:32 PM   #427
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Devin Booker

"On our team defense is contagious. You don't want to be that the guy out there not defending because you'll stick out like a sore thumb"

Memo to Donnie and Cuban it's been 10 years since this team has played good defense stop fucking around and fix this issue for once.

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Old 06-22-2021, 10:38 PM   #428
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Can a mod unsticky ALL the threads

The offseason posts will let us know what threads need to be stuck to the top
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Old 06-23-2021, 12:11 AM   #429
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Can a mod unsticky ALL the threads

The offseason posts will let us know what threads need to be stuck to the top
Itís literally just me. There is one mod and I struggle to have any interest in DM or Mavs right now
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Old 06-23-2021, 11:27 PM   #430
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Itís literally just me. There is one mod and I struggle to have any interest in DM or Mavs right now
Come on Erica. We are counting on you to have interest. This is the big offseason where we start our rebuild to get Luka to the 2nd round by time he is 32. We can do it...
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Old 06-23-2021, 11:30 PM   #431
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Devin Booker

"On our team defense is contagious. You don't want to be that the guy out there not defending because you'll stick out like a sore thumb"

Memo to Donnie and Cuban it's been 10 years since this team has played good defense stop fucking around and fix this issue for once.
Watching the Hawks win tonight I couldn't help but be envious of all the fun toys Trae has at his disposal with the rim running of Capella and John Collins and the secondary playmaking of both Hueter and Bogdanovic. My god that GM turned the team around in 12 months time. This is why I am so annoyed by those that say "it takes time to build a winner". That is absolute bull shit.
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Old 06-24-2021, 06:09 PM   #432
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Have a competent front office does wonders
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