[Harpospoke]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I understand the Lebron hate to some extent. When one player is more or less the face of the sport, it's really easy to hate that player, unless you are specifically a fan of that team. I hated Kobe. I hate Tom Brady. Those guys are easy to hate. And for many years, I hated Lebron too, just as a lot of people on this forum clearly do.

Also with Lebron he is just the worst at talking to the media. He says something in just about every interview that makes him look like an arrogant a-hole. He rarely smiles (when he does, he really does come off as likable)

But it is quite possible this is a product of him being the most scrutinized athlete in sports history who has pretty much been under constant attack since his rookie year. Those who claim it was "the decision" that caused it are forgetting that many were attacking him as a rookie onward. Him being on the cover of SI when he was in high school rubbed many the wrong way for some odd reason.

So if I was constantly being attacked....I might be pointing out every time I did something good too.

But I just have to admit it now. I love Lebron. I mean, I absolutely f*cking love Lebron. Why? Because at a time when the Mavs are completely irrelevant, Lebron alone has kept my interest in the NBA alive. Because he is not only the best player in the world, but he is so jaw-droppingly, mind-bogglingly great, that I honestly just feel privileged to watch him.

This playoffs alone, he has given us some absolutely classic memories. The buzzer beater in game 5 against the Pacers has rightfully been compared to Jordan's "the shot," and "Lebronto" will be remembered decades from now. Things like this are the reason I keep watching the NBA, when my home team doesn't give me much of a reason to.

That's how it's always been for me. I started watching the Mavs in the 80s. They finally got good, but in the meantime, my real joy was watching Magic Johnson play. The Lakers were my go-to team when the Mavs were not in the mix. (Man...the Mavs came SO close to beating them in 88)

Then of course MJ and Pippen were the reason to watch in the 90s when the Mavs were horrid. After that it was Shaq and Kobe.

But then came Lebron. He fit my taste more than the previous stars. He was more like Magic....a team first guy who actually LIKED to pass! How about that?? So very refreshing after all those years of hero ball. While others praised Allen Iverson and Vince Carter among all the other hero ball disciples, I held my nose.

To those who feel this way, let me ask, which team in the West should he or could have gone to in 2010 that would provide him with a better opportunity to win titles than Miami? Or Cleveland in 2014?

If the stronger teams are in the West, then there would be a long list of teams that would be an easier path than forming a new team in Miami or coming back to the Cavs.

Imagine if Lebron joined OKC in 2011 or in 2014 for instance. Adding Lebron to an already established team would be far easier than what he did. They would have reeled off a string of championships with Lebron in the mix. Had Lebron gone there in 2011 they probably never get rid of Harden and you know KD would have stayed. Or how about coming to the Mavs in 2011? Playing for a great coach for the first time with an established contender.

Pretty obvious why he chose to come back to the Cavs. That was all about the "loyalty" thing. The Cavs never made sense in a "easy path to a ring" sense.

Originally Posted by MavzMan

GS is arguably the best team of all time behind that Celtics that won like 11 championships. They literally have 4 starters that could carry their own team and 5th guy that regularly gets triple doubles. The West could be the toughest they've ever been in the history of the NBA and GS would still probably cruise to the Finals because they are just that damn good.

Well the Warriors would have to be the greatest team of all time to make the West look this bad over the years. They've been challenged just once in the West. And then they were taken to 6 games by the Cavs in the Finals with just Lebron left standing after Kyrie and Love were out. And of course that East team was the only team to beat them during this stretch too. There were great teams in the East in the early 80s, but they were challenged by other East teams...most notably Celtics/Sixers.

I'm taking the Warriors over the Rockets in 5 or 6 at most.

The Lebron hate stems almost entirely around The Decision and then joining super-friends. Worrying about team chemistry was very little an issue when the best player in the league joins Wade and Bosh who were both in their absolute prime. Then after that he joins/forces another duo in Kyrie Irving and KLove ... who ironically did have chemistry issues.

Chemistry was a BIG issue with the Heat forming their new team. We know this as Mavs fans because we saw it. Lebron obviously thought he was going to play the Magic Johnson role on that team while Wade and Bosh would be the Kareem/Worthy. That didn't work. Both Wade and Bosh disappeared in crunch time against the Mavs. Lebron learned from that and took over the scoring load the next season.

And Wade had had something like 3 knee surgeries by the time Lebron got to play with him so it wasn't really his "absolute prime". His real peak as a player was around 08-09.

Your logic is flawed in that you are assuming he believes he will lose every year in the finals. Do you not agree that a much easier path to the Finals gives him the best chance to win a championship? He is much less likely to face a team that just happens to get hot for a series and knock them out of the playoffs. In a super-star driven league, the biggest super-star of all can literally carry a team through a weaker conference for the first round or two.

If you aren't on the best team you will never win a championship unless you get lucky. You can get to the Finals every year and it won't matter. Ask Jerry West. Ask the Buffalo Bills.

So why would anyone go to an inferior team in the hopes that they might get lucky with injuries when you could just go to the best team and just win outright? That wouldn't make any sense at all.

Lebron should just go join the Rockets in the off season so everyone can see the difference.

Originally Posted by mac222b

LeBron choosing the best team available in the weaker conference has actually already paid off with a championship. Things happen- Steph injury, Draymond nut-punch. It was totally part of his calculus.

He's a great basketball player- one of the best ever. You could agree with that but also think him a bandwagon jumping bitch who bails when the rosters - ones which he has an outsized hand assembling- collapse under the weight of their own baked-in shortsightedness.

So that's the claim? That Lebron joined an inferior team hoping he would get lucky with injuries? That's the "easy way"? How do you guys talk yourself into this stuff?

And if Lebron has an "outsized hand in assembling" his teams...then that proves he plays for lousy organizations right there. How can a team possibly win anything if they let the star player run everything? You think the Bulls would have ever won if they let MJ run the team? That's another advantage MJ had over Lebron.

I don't recall an equivalent. Durant is not. Its like Durant this offseason insisting GSW sign Iggy and Livingston to 15m+ mega deals long-term deals or he walks leading to them losing Klay and then Durant bailing for Boston next offseason.

It's definitely true that the Warriors are a far better run team than the Cavs.

Also keep in mind that he colluded with Pat Riley(while the league looked the other way as it benefited them) and Wade to join "South Beach". While our 2011 vanquishing of the Heat could not have possibly been sweeter, 2006 was an absolute travesty- with Riley and Wade being the chief benefactors while the league, at best, looked the other way. At worst the league and certain officials colluded to help decide the outcome. I will always despise Wade and his arrogance. And to a lesser extent, by proxy, LeBron- who enabled two more championships for the clown Wade(who has exactly 3 more than he deserves)

We can agree on the Wade hate. Cant' stand him. He got handed a ring and MVP in 06 because the league and refs hated Cuban.

That's another one that bothers me about the Lebron hate. Even Mavs fans ignored that Wade choked so badly in 2011 in their zeal to "blame Lebron". Jeez man...that was the ultimate revenge for Mavs fans and most didn't even pay attention.

Not to mention that most Lebron haters try to paint the 2011 Mavs as a weak team that "Lebron should have beaten" (obviously believing one player wins rings). So the Mavs become the sacrificial lamb on the alter of Lebron hate.

No...the Mavs were a great team for a decade (2nd most wins in the 00s) and proved they were the best team during that entire 2011 playoff run.

Was beating the Heat impressive? Certainly. But not nearly as impressive as SWEEPING the 2 time defending champ Lakers. Now that was freaking impressive! Exactly zero ESPN "experts" picked the Mavs to win that series. http://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/201...vericks-lakers

So much for "supposed to win"....the Mavs proved that wrong every time.

The Heat were in their first year together and weren't a real team. And it showed in the Finals. The Mavs had team chemistry, a better coach, 2 hall of famers playing at the top of their game, 6th man of the year runner-up, a better bench, and the defensive player of the year winner the following year. ...Oh...and the Mavs had the better coach by a mile too.

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

The thing however that I think Lebron legitimately can be criticized for is the way he only signs short-term deals, keeping his freedom to leave if he doesn't like the situation. It makes perfect sense from a selfish standpoint, but it has a terrible effect on the team because the team is always in "win now" mode, in order to keep him from leaving, so they have to mortage the future to put out the best team possible immediately, which- ironically- makes it more likely for him to bolt when the team is left with no trade assets, cap room, or young prospects.

That's valid. But again probably a product of him being gun shy after wasting his first 7 years waiting for the Cavs to build a team around him. That's gotta make it scary to commit long term to a team.