Dallas-Mavs.com Forums - View Single Post - All-NBA Teams Announced

mikel_ind · 05-18-2004, 07:42 AM

[So you are basing your argument on stats mostly? Well sure Dirk´s stats are worse then last year. But even after that drop off he´s one of the top players statisticly. Don´t think so? Simply go and check out all of the stats based player ratings across the net.]

If you are suggesting that all-NBA lists are and should be popularity contests, then you miss the point of what I'm trying to do. I deliberately ignore what others have to say and thereby avoid being influenced.

You say "Dirk's stats are worse than last year", and that's basically what I've said. He also plays the most talent-filled position in the league. The 9th-best PF in the league is considerably better than the 3rd-best center (whoever that is).

[Magicmetric has him 6th overall in terms of statistical production, 3rd at PF trailing KG and TD.
Sportsline has him 4th overall, 2nd at PF trailing only KG.
Tendex has him 5th overall, 3rd at PF trailing KG and TD.]

[With last years production he would have been 2nd overall at both magicmetric and sportsline this year (last year he was 6th). Except for KG there´s been a general dropoff this year. So in perspective, even with his injury problems and his relatively subpar year Dirk is just where he was last year stat wise when compared to other top NBA players.]

If Duncan isn't a close 2nd to Garnett, then I have an idea what is wrong with these other rating systems.

Either they are merely adding statistical totals, or they use per-minute or per-game rates that aren't adjusted for game pace.

Duncan played for (anchored) the league's best defense. Nowitzki's Mavs had the worst defense in the league.

I can't assign individual defensive ratings. But I do assume that players who play major minutes are contributors to either good or mediocre defenses. As such, all Mavs players are "overrepresented" by their stats. All Spurs are "underrepresented"

It's a fairly straightforward adjustment to make. I use a ratio of the opponent PPG and an arbitrary 100 PPG, and this factor raises good defensive (low pace) teams, while deflating high-pace/bad-D teams.

Actually, my system will correct for "general drop-off" across the league, and most players' ratings will be adjusted upward, relative to a higher-scoring season.

[For the playoffs he´s second overall trailing only KG on all player raters. Last year he was also 2nd overall for the playoffs trailing TD.]

That's where I had him, too (a few days ago).

In fact, after a slow start to the season, Dirk picked up steam; and for the playoffs he was great. But he wasn't that great all year long.

[So basicly you are way off base by not including Dirk to your teams. In fact he should been 2nd team again this year right behind KG and TD, at least based on stats. If you are talking personal favorites or something like that it´s another story. But you made it sound you´ve been objective which you were not.]

On a Mavs message board, how many Mavs do I have to put on the all-NBA teams, to be "objective".

Pardon the sarcasm, but "based on stats" obviously means different things to different people. I've been doing this many years, and am pretty comfortable with the way I do it.

The other ratings lists you referred to will have outrageous placements that you haven't mentioned. But they rank Dirk highly, so for that one fact, you like them.

[Your list is flawed in a couple other ways too. K-Mart, Carter? But leaving out Dirk, Brand or even Marion? Puhleeeze... and there are a couple other guys I´d take before AI at guard too...]

I didn't "leave out" anyone. In fact, I'd take several guys before Iverson; and I did.

05-18-2004, 07:42 AM	#16
mikel_ind Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 11	RE:All-NBA Teams Announced [So you are basing your argument on stats mostly? Well sure Dirk´s stats are worse then last year. But even after that drop off he´s one of the top players statisticly. Don´t think so? Simply go and check out all of the stats based player ratings across the net.] If you are suggesting that all-NBA lists are and should be popularity contests, then you miss the point of what I'm trying to do. I deliberately ignore what others have to say and thereby avoid being influenced. You say "Dirk's stats are worse than last year", and that's basically what I've said. He also plays the most talent-filled position in the league. The 9th-best PF in the league is considerably better than the 3rd-best center (whoever that is). [Magicmetric has him 6th overall in terms of statistical production, 3rd at PF trailing KG and TD. Sportsline has him 4th overall, 2nd at PF trailing only KG. Tendex has him 5th overall, 3rd at PF trailing KG and TD.] [With last years production he would have been 2nd overall at both magicmetric and sportsline this year (last year he was 6th). Except for KG there´s been a general dropoff this year. So in perspective, even with his injury problems and his relatively subpar year Dirk is just where he was last year stat wise when compared to other top NBA players.] If Duncan isn't a close 2nd to Garnett, then I have an idea what is wrong with these other rating systems. Either they are merely adding statistical totals, or they use per-minute or per-game rates that aren't adjusted for game pace. Duncan played for (anchored) the league's best defense. Nowitzki's Mavs had the worst defense in the league. I can't assign individual defensive ratings. But I do assume that players who play major minutes are contributors to either good or mediocre defenses. As such, all Mavs players are "overrepresented" by their stats. All Spurs are "underrepresented" It's a fairly straightforward adjustment to make. I use a ratio of the opponent PPG and an arbitrary 100 PPG, and this factor raises good defensive (low pace) teams, while deflating high-pace/bad-D teams. Actually, my system will correct for "general drop-off" across the league, and most players' ratings will be adjusted upward, relative to a higher-scoring season. [For the playoffs he´s second overall trailing only KG on all player raters. Last year he was also 2nd overall for the playoffs trailing TD.] That's where I had him, too (a few days ago). In fact, after a slow start to the season, Dirk picked up steam; and for the playoffs he was great. But he wasn't that great all year long. [So basicly you are way off base by not including Dirk to your teams. In fact he should been 2nd team again this year right behind KG and TD, at least based on stats. If you are talking personal favorites or something like that it´s another story. But you made it sound you´ve been objective which you were not.] On a Mavs message board, how many Mavs do I have to put on the all-NBA teams, to be "objective". Pardon the sarcasm, but "based on stats" obviously means different things to different people. I've been doing this many years, and am pretty comfortable with the way I do it. The other ratings lists you referred to will have outrageous placements that you haven't mentioned. But they rank Dirk highly, so for that one fact, you like them. [Your list is flawed in a couple other ways too. K-Mart, Carter? But leaving out Dirk, Brand or even Marion? Puhleeeze... and there are a couple other guys I´d take before AI at guard too...] I didn't "leave out" anyone. In fact, I'd take several guys before Iverson; and I did.