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Old 08-17-2004, 06:20 PM   #32
Fidel
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Default RE:U.S. pulling troops out of Europe

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How has the US isolated itself? Our relations with hundreds of countries OUTSIDE of Europe are stronger than ever. We are helping bring democracy to the Middle East, and as such we can look forward to a period of western-arab cooperation unparelleled in world history. Meanwhile, we are standing hand in hand with Asian countries who twenty years ago wouldn't have dreamed of helping the US. Our relations with long time enemies China and Russia, while not perfect, have never been better.
Sturm allready answered that one, but believe whatever you want.

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Yet when we asked for help from our long time European allies and were unceremoniously, and quite rudely rejected. Instead of aid, we received anti-American rhetoric flowing freely from the mouths of German and French politicians. You have heard nothing similar from Bush, only repeated attempts to appease this misguided American hatred. In truth, it is our old allies in Europe who have chosen to abandon the US in it's time of need. If you see America as further isolated from the "world", it's because you interpret the "world" to be France and Germany. I suggest taking off your Euro-centric glasses and see that there is a world outside the Franco-German alliance (which I may add is dropping like a rock in terms of world influence). The more Germany retreats into it's nationalistic, Euro-centric, spider hole, the less relevance it will have on the world.
So you pick up my argument and just try to turn it around, nice.

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And as for the great "security and safety" that prove Germany still matters in terms of a world power, I hope you are not referring to the multiple genocidal disasters that the UN has stood watch over in Africa. I can't imagine the situations in Rwanda and the Sudan being handled much worse. I'm sure if you asked the families of the hundreds of thousands of Tutsis murdered (and still being murdered today) under the guise of the UN, or families of the hundreds of thousands of black Sudanese being murdered today under the guise of the UN, you might not hear very many nice things about the "security and safety" being provided by France, Germany, and Kofi's United Nations.
For someone who talks as bold as you do your information level definitly isn`t too good. Here´s a short list of missions that the german bundeswehr was involved in in the last 5 years:

finished:

Allied Force (Yugoslavia, 1999)
Operation Enduring Freedom (Kuweit 2002-2003)
CONCORDIA (Mazedonia 2003)
Operation Artemis (Kongo 2003)

still ongoing:

-Enduring Freedom:
Seaforces to control searoutes around africa in the fight on terror (since 2001).
KommandoSpezialKräfte (KSK) and DivisionSpecialOperations (DSO) in Afghanistan.
Medevac medical airbus in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

-International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan (basicly helping Afghanistans new governement with the rebuilding efforts. Mostly providing military/safety help but also humanitarian work. Was led by Germany in 2003.

-SFOR troops in Bosnia to provide security and keep peace (since 1999). SFOR troops in Bosnia are under german command right now.

-KFOR troops in Kosovo with the same purpose (since 1999).

-UNOMIG UN-mission in Georgia (since 1994)

Next time try to be informed a little bit better. But hey I don´t expect you to answer this part of my post anyways. Whenever someone actually posts facts they are overlooked or ignored.

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The problem is that Europe still thinks of itself as the center of world influence. Everything it does seems to be aimed at holding onto it's former place as a superpower. The old world powers in Europe have put on hold their historical aspirations of world dominance on a national scale, hoping that by comining their power, they can somehow retain relevance in a place where world leadership is quickly shifting itself across the Atlantic. That's fine, I can understand the need to feel important. But realize that it will be impossible for Europe to do so without maintaining it's alliance with America. In my opinion, Shroeder and Chirac are taking their countries down a dangerous path.
Well actually it´s probably the other way around. Germanys foreign policies have allways been multilateral while the US has an agenda to take action on a unilateral basis at times. Germany has been the thriving force behind the EU expansion (yeah the EU keeps getting bigger) and is also the thriving force behind the new EU constitution. I´d hardly call that isolating, self centered policy.

By the way those "allies" you listed in that other post sure look impressive, lol. Like Sturm said the whole thing is mostly economic and political arm twisting anyways. Alot of the "support" for the Iraq war was probably bought that´s why the list looks like it does.
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