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Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
then why on earth would you expect that you're necessarily going to get passionate, heady play in the closing minutes of a blow out?
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because people like Carroll need to make a case for themselves with every minute they are on the floor. If I were to judge by last night alone, and not credit him several years of adequate production, I'd be hard pressed to give him another meaningful minute of basketball.
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You're just setting up straw man versions of my arguments here that philosophically accord neither with what I've said, nor with what I think. So I guess my response is that by attributing such claims to me you're just flat out off base.
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straw men? My whole point is that Carroll didn't produce, and that the opponent produced while Carroll was on the court. The number of 0's on his stat line and the 3 fouls in 18 minutes speak to that. You claim that Carroll didn't need to rebound, or make assists or steals because those weren't, in effect, his job last night. I think that's a fair summary of what you posted, and it leaves us only with the conclusion that Carroll did not produce. (this also strikes me as a strange defense for him. You agree that he didn't quite live up to expectation in his role last night, and here your defense for him is that he had a very limited role to focus on.)
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Popcornmachine has them at +4 together in the first quarter.
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ok. I see where you read that. Thanks. My point still stands. You can compare Carroll's mediocre +/- while Kidd is on the court with his atrocious +/- while Kidd is off the court and come to some conclusion. If you do that, though, you should also be willing to compare Kidd's mediocre +/- while Carroll is on the court with Kidd's absolutely brilliant +/- while Carroll is off the court, and also come to some conclusions.