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Originally posted by: sturm und drang
Madape wrote:
"I knew it wouldn't take long before you resorted to the typical anti-war rhetoric."
You know why the anti-war rhetoric is so typically consistent? Because it's a chorus of facts.
By the way, I'm glad you're asssured that Saddam had WMD and that there were substantial links between Iraq and Al Qaeda. I have no idea what top secret government documents and intel you have access to to be so cocksure, but it's refreshing to know that - regardless of a dearth of cold, hard facts available to the rest of us - your faith runs so deep.
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It's a tired argument, but I'll state it again. We know Saddam had chemical weapons because he had USED THEM. Unless you can prove that all those kurds died from something other than an Iraqi chemical weapon, it is YOU who are dismissing reality. Now some of these weapons that you insist never existed are turning up in the hands of terrorists. How can you seriosly sit there with any credibilty and say that Sadaam did not have any WMDs? It's preposterous.
We know that Iraq had links to terrorism because 1) Saddam openly funded Palestinean terror squads. 2) Al-Zarkawi was, and still is operating in Iraq. Nick Berg did not die at the blade of some Baathist insurgent. He died at the blade of an Al-Qaeda operative who was stationed in Iraq long before the US occupation.
Those are hard FACTS. It you who are blinded by party loyalty to a point in which you can't see the signs staring you right in the face.
But again, these points are impossible to argue because they are so buried in the heads of liberals that they have become some kind of manefesto. I'm convinced that no common sense, no rationality, no logical arguments canever convince any of these people that Bush is not some sort of lying Hitler type who blew up innocent people so that he and his friends can profit from oil. I'm giving up trying.
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Regarding the hatred of Americans in the Middle East: I disagree with your hypothesis that hate is hate. Yes, there were certainly Arabs who hated us far prior to 9/11. But that enmity has a.) now become a wholesale cultural phenomenon and b.) has intensified grotesquely. The hatred is broader and deeper than it has ever been. I don't agree with your polarized view that hatred for us existed, and it exists now, so what's the difference? We have thrown gasoline on the fire, driven it to new heights, new intensities and a new generation. Like I said before, it will take 15 - 20 years to understand the full ramifications of the invasion and occupation.
In the meantime, what will happen to us this summer?
And do you really think Isreal is totally blameless? Interesting.
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It already was a cultural phenomenon. The hatred was broad and deep before Iraq. If it is worse now, it is because those that hate us feel that their totalitarian and empirical aspirations are threatened. I agree with you that we need to turn the tide of hate. Your opinion is that essentially we should just leave it alone and let it fester in a cesspool of facist arab shit, and hope that somehow these people slowly wake up and start to love America. My opinion is that we tear down the walls of facism, force and end to government sponsored anti-Americanism, and build strong relationships with open and Democratic arab countries. The enlightened few in America who "get it" know that this is the only way in which we can ensure that the next generation of arabs at least has a choice in whether to hate America. Before, it was a fucking certainty.
I also agree with you that it will take several generations before we know the result of this proactive war on terror. But your original point had something to do with Bush being "myopic". I think that is such a distorted "perception" of reality it almost deserves ridicule. The anti-war left are the ones with no eyes on the future. It is they who would rather feed the alligator in the hopes that it won't eat them quickly. While France, Germany, and Al Gore are hiding under a rock with a barrel of fish, Bush and company are out killing the alligator. And no, the alligator probably doesn't like that plan very much. It will probably fight back.
But once it's dead, it's dead.
And you can come out from under your rock.