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Old 06-23-2011, 03:49 PM   #69
CadBane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingmalaki View Post
I am assuming that it's ok for me to respond to this post since I don't see sike or anyone else telling you not to make it or to put it in the other thread. Plus another 2 posters responded to it, so I will do the same. Don't feel like being accused of trolling again.

The first stat that you provided was playoff win shares per 48. Why did you use per 48 numbers instead of the stat for playoff win shares, which is actually based on what the players did? Dirk isn't playing 48 mpg and neither is anyone else on the list besides Wilt. Per 48 stats often make players look better than they actually were. For example, using your list, Shaq is #20 behind Barkley, Baron Davis and Billups? Robinson is #8? Gasol (#26) is ahead of McHale, Bird and Moses (#30-#32) and Kobe (#43)? Horace Grant (#48) is ahead of Dr J (#55)? That stat doesn't seem very reliable to me.

Using the regular per 48 stat Dirk is top 14, right behind:

1. Michael Jordan* 39.76
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 35.56
3. Magic Johnson* 32.63
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.46
5. Shaquille O'Neal 31.08
6. Tim Duncan 28.84
7. Bill Russell* 27.76
8. Kobe Bryant 26.85
9. Jerry West* 26.75
10. Larry Bird* 24.83
11. Scottie Pippen* 23.58
12. Karl Malone* 22.99
13. Hakeem Olajuwon* 22.60
14. Dirk Nowitzki 22.08

Some of the guys we discussed are ahead of him (Malone, Pippen, West), and some are behind (Stockton, Barkley, Robinson). Dr J is #8 on the combined NBA/ABA list. But as I mentioned earlier, when comparing a current players playoff numbers to a retired player, especially Barkley and Malone, you have to remember that they played post their prime and their playoff numbers dipped. Dirk's numbers will decline as well eventually. Using this stat, he is already behind Malone who has his post prime years included in his avg.

The second stat that you used was PER, which largely measures offensive performance. Even Hollinger freely admits that two of the defensive statistics it incorporates -- blocks and steals -- can produce a distorted picture of a player's value and that PER is not a reliable measure of a player's defensive acumen (from wiki). There are two sides of a basketball court and most of the players that I mentioned were good on the other side of the court....defense. I'll also note that using playoff PER, Magic is only #17 (20, 8, 12), Wilt only #18 (23, 25, 4) and Bird is only #24 (24, 10, 7). Their playoff numbers are in (). Would you really use PER to argue that T-Mac (#8 on the list) was a better playoff performer than Magic, Wilt and Bird?

I agree that Dirk was a basketball God to close games in this Finals.
I'm still waiting for your rebuttal to your asinine claim that Dirk didn't have any better playoff stats than Malone.
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