[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

LOL at that Dally comment. Has he ever been a starter on a top-5 defense in his entire career? Even one time? That is just insane oversimplification and shows a lack of understanding of some of the very basics of NBA defense. My mind is blown right now at that comment. Utterly insane with zero logic to it.

Thanks, but you've brought nothing to the table other than insults. Perhaps if it was so obviously insane, you'd bring some stats. They'd be easy to find contrary stats if I was so insane.

Boy, that is the snarkiest post I've ever read... do you do anything but plug in rebounding percentage numbers before you evaluate centers? Honest question.

I only looked at rebound rating, rebound percentage, offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency, block rating, PER, win share, but but point taken.

Your stats betray you here. Throw out the rebounding percentages of career backups like Blair (who has almost zero other NBA-level skills) and Wright (who is such a lousy defender he hasn't earned a starting role on a team absolutely desperate for size and athleticism). Their numbers are nice until you put them in the proper context: they achieve them against backups and they come in as energy players. Neither of those two should ever be starting on a good NBA team at this point of their careers.

Okay, we'll completely throw out all stats for Wright and Blair despite significant minutes for both on a playoff team. Sounds insane to me to completely throw out all stats (and not just discount them), but whatever you say. You're the expert. Hibbert is still one of the worst starting centers in the league in almost every important category.

And Dalembert, for all of his apparent defensive skills, still blocked far fewer shots and grabbed fewer rebounds than Hibbert

So you want to throw out ALL simple and advanced stats for Wright, Blair, and Dally but you want to compare raw, simple stats for guys who played radically different amounts of time. Do you really expect Dally to have more blocks and rebounds in 1600 minutes than Hibbert got in 2400.

Percentages are nice but they're gimmicky when they're your only real argument. None of those three players should start games for this team unless you could magically count on Dally to actually play

Same applies for Hibbert. Guy can't be depended on him. Dozens of blocks and thousands of Indy fans are demanding that Hibbert be benched, because he's killing the team in this series.

And when he's engaged, he's a good enough rebounder (9.3 RPG per 36 minutes... if he could keep that up for 30-32 MPG he'd already be the second-best rebounding center we've ever had behind one season of Chandler).

You called me out for cherry picking, but this is the worst kind of that exact thing. It's based on a hypothetical and even then he's only an average rebounder. IF he can stay in the game and IF he hustles he can be almost as good as Dalembert?

[quote[In short, he has been the most productive defensive center in the league over the past two-plus seasons[/quote]
Citation needed. I have him at 48th in PER, 58th in rebound rate, 59th in defensive rebound rebound, and 34th in value added among centers. If you include forwards, he's in the 100-200 range in all of those stats. His defensive numbers are also pretty average.

With Carlisle I think big Roy would have the best season of his career. Just a hunch.

Yes, just a hunch like the rest of your argument.

Maybe I'm wrong and he'll never be good ever again.

Or perhaps he'll be just average and the illusion that he's one of the "most productive centers" in the league mystique will pop.

Still worth a gamble for one year, or two at the most.

That's also an opinion and not one that I share. It's also the mentality that left us without our 1st rounder from Odom and the genius of our roster last year-- hey, it's just a year, right?

He's still only 27 and if traded, would have a huge chip on his shoulder. He's a player that needs a change of scenery

Just like Odom, right? He wanted to stick it to LA after miserably underperforming on a team with personnel issues.

the absolute best rim protection in recent history

citation necessary.

Another honest question: Have you watched Hibbert or checked out his real production at any time other than the past few months?

Yes.

Why in the hell would you not even take a chance on a guy like this?

Because it's not a closed system. It's not just about Hibbert being overrated and rather average. It's about what it would take to get Hibbert-- Odom only cost us a first rounder and a year of salary and he was a bad investment. It's about t he cap room he'd eat up. We may only have a few million to work with this summer and I don't think Hibbert would get us there and he'd probably be the only major name we'd be able to get. If we had unlimited trade resources and unlimited cap, I'd love to take a chance on him. That's simply not the case. Cubes is into advanced stats and Hibbert's advanced stats scream "fools gold" as Kaman's did.

I am extremely happy some people here aren't the Mavs GM.It's like they hear a name and immediately look for reasons to make fun of the player (or the poster) instead of actually doing something crazy and considering anything even slightly unorthodox in approaching roster-building.

What a condescending thing to say. You really think you have it right and I'm only trying to crap on your idea? It has no idea with stats and real concerns? Wow.

Hibbert is a much safer bet than the Gortats and Larry Sanderseseses of the NBA.

If that were a true analysis and not a perfect example of the fallacy of false dichotomy I'd be perfectly on board. Hibbert is absolutely safer than a nutball like Sanders. Of course, that's not how life works.