[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You *are* aware that some instances of "evolution"--I put it in quotes anticipating that perhaps you have a different term for it--have unquestionably been observed, are you not? Something about finches in the Galapagos, or somesuch. For that matter, even in our lifetimes--a ridiculously short period when we are talking about such things--we have witnessed not insignificant changes in our own human species. Leaving God out of it for the moment, does natural selection seem to you, intuitively, to be logically unsound?

Myself, I don't much care what the answer to the question is. I think both sides have to rely on some kind of "magic" at one point in their argument. But given that it seems pretty clear that natural selection does indeed happen in the case of some species, it stands to reason that it just might happen in all species.

(I might note, also, that allowing natural selection to happen for some species but not for humans is the same kind of egocentric thinking that we humans have been very good at for a very long time.)

Yea, Darwin's finches. Minor adaptation within the species. Never ever outside the species. Hence the term Micro-evolution. Yes it is documented and yes some animals adapt within their "kind".

A quick comment about scientists, and what motives they may have. It is my understanding, albeit from anecdotal evidence, that the great majority of scientists are theists. Do you have evidence to the contrary? You come across as very judgmental when you speak of science as a "religion" and throw out terms like "true science." What motive do you believe that atheist scientists, which you seem to believe are a prohibitive majority, have for spreading their creed?

money, power, desire to be in control

I hear this all the time, and every time I hear it I chuckle bemusedly at the irony. It is the people who speak loudest about God and religion who seem to believe the worst about humanity. I don't need a god to be moral, nor do you. You could just be moral because you thought it was the right thing to do, for the sake of your own self and of your fellow man, if you wanted to. That's what a lot of people do, each and every day. I'm sorry you don't see yourself as one of them.

But if I wasn't one of them.......and I could find just a few others, then it wouldn't matter as we would just kill the ones who were. Yes, we have and need a God who is in control of these things. Sorry if "just because you thought it was the right thing to do" doesn't fly, IMO.

No, we're really not. And I for one would appreciate it if you and others with a similar message would stop purporting to speak for everyone. I know people who are, for all intents and purposes, saints. They are good role models, for me and for everyone else. Believe it or not, it *is* possible to lead a moral, ethical, upright life.

I don't speak for everyone. I speak for me. If you don't like what I say -- don't read it. I don't like evolution being taught to my kids in public funded school systems as I think it is bad, but my options are not as easy as just don't like it. You see evolution is backed by governmental $$$$ and that means it doesn't matter whether it is correct or not.

With that said -- yes we are all sinners. Of course you can't sin unless there is God because sinning is breaking God rules. So I get that you think Man is in control and there is no God. I am sorry for you.