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Old 05-10-2013, 03:27 PM   #118
Dirkadirkastan
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Originally Posted by DirkFTW View Post
Perhaps I am being too subtle, but I'm pointing out how rephrasing the choice as "nice-sounding A v. horrible-sounding B" doesn't carry much weight. It's a game everyone can play to paint the other side negatively while ignoring the underlying disagreement.

And I think your dichotomy should more properly be "your belief is bigoted" vs. "you are bigoted because you hold that belief." Frankly that seems like trying to split hairs or starting off a really offensive comment with "no offense but..." I mean, look at the thread title and your attempt to discredit Mormonism as crazy.
It's not "splitting hairs," it's the key to the whole thing.

Mormonism does indeed contain the doctrine that black people are descendants of Cain, and their skin color is a curse. Regardless of how any individual member may view blacks, do you think the belief system itself should go forever unchallenged because opposing any belief system is bigotry against its members?

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... But no one can challenge as bigotry the idea that religion is "stupid," "backward," and "questionable"? You have a lot of great statements on freedom of speech... you just choose to make them one-way streets which undermines the intellectual honesty.
You can certainly challenge the idea itself, my response is that the "bigot" label isn't valid. You can't be bigoted toward a religion (or any belief system) any more than you can find the square root of a pork chop. It's because you're applying incompatible terminology.

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Let's start from here: It's not pretend.
I noticed you dodged my question about the KKK. You really think that anyone who stands up to them is no more than an intolerant hypocritical bigot? Or at the very least, is just as worthy of the label as a KKK member?

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My ultimate response to the real issue you identify is that labeling something as 'bigotry' has no real intellectual value and doesn't contribute anything. And if you go further by using bigotry labels as a means for classifying permissible and impermissible views, you risk swapping one intolerance for another--a differently-bigoted world.

In a world with diverse and diametrically opposed views, pure tolerance will be dissonant, not harmonious. So why would truly tolerant people be surprised or offended to hear intolerance?
You are equating belief systems to genetic identity. It's such an obvious error that I've spent too much time trying to point out over and over. Why are you having such a hard time with this?
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