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Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan
You are equating belief systems to genetic identity. It's such an obvious error that I've spent too much time trying to point out over and over. Why are you having such a hard time with this?
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You can't be bigoted toward a religion (or any belief system) any more than you can find the square root of a pork chop. It's because you're applying incompatible terminology.
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I guess I'm having a hard time believing that someone would actually think it's impossible to be bigoted against a religion, and I hoped to get you to see otherwise. My understanding of bigotry is larger than just genetics (i.e., includes religion, language, and nationality). Maybe you really dislike the possibility of being viewed as a bigot, so you want to re-define bigotry to exclude your views. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes bigotry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan
Regardless of how any individual member may view blacks, do you think the belief system itself should go forever unchallenged because opposing any belief system is bigotry against its members?
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I noticed you dodged my question about the KKK. You really think that anyone who stands up to them is no more than an intolerant hypocritical bigot? Or at the very least, is just as worthy of the label as a KKK member?
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I didn't dodge it; I thought it tangential to the conversation and a distraction. And given our disagreement on what bigotry even is, I'm not sure discussing the particular views of Mormons or the KKK do more than invite many more tangential questions that avoid the core disagreement. (Do you define the KKK as a religion. If not, what about secret societies like the Masons--can people opposed to them be bigots too? What about people who think global warming is a hoax and a part of a great conspiracy? Creationists? Must the KKK's views be banned/silenced or can I just disagree with them? Does my disagreement have to include ridicule and shaming in order to be acceptable? Are they really hypocrites or is that another negative-sounding label that they 'deserve' because they are KKK? Am I allowed to try to reason with them to change their mind? If reasoning fails, what am I required to do then to be seen as 'tolerant'? Do I have to get physical with them if words are not enough?)
And what do you mean by Mormon beliefs going 'unchallenged'? (Lots of people disagree with Mormonism today). This seems premised on the belief that bigotry must be prohibited... which goes back to my original question(s) regarding bigotry accusations towards religious teachings: do you want to dictate acceptable doctrine to the Mormons? Do you want to rewrite the Book of Mormon or perhaps edit sermons and Sunday school lessons? Do you want to penalize some Mormon beliefs or perhaps prohibit Mormonism altogether? Do you want to ridicule and bully their members until they renounce their faith? If that doesn't work, do you turn to force and/or force of law? How would any of that be prettier or different than the bigotry you find so ugly?
And here we are again at the foundational disagreement as to the definition of 'bigotry', where you seem to think mistreating someone based on their religion is never bigotry. My assumption regarding why you brought up the specifics of Mormonism and the KKK is that you are hoping to use them as examples of 'crazies' that deserve collective hatred/shaming/bullying/censorship (and therefore it can't be 'bigotry' because it is 'acceptable').
My point is still this: calling people names like 'bigot' isn't really intellectually useful. It may feel good in a juvenile sense, but you're not trying to change anyone's mind at that point. And if you're hoping to go a step (or more) further towards bullying and censorship to forcibly make people change their minds or religious beliefs... well that's rather intolerant and 'medieval'. Hardly the sunshine and rainbows that are advertised for the new world order.