[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

dude, you can't go around countries taking them over and waiting 10, 20 or 30 years and staying with big huge forces and then getting out 10 to 20 years down the road. Iraq is for us to guard the place now or go around and kick up the enemy or wait for the suicide bombers come rolling in.

Again...and...again....and...again...bds really effects the ability to keep facts straight it seems.

The WHOLE world thought saddam had wmds. We know he supported terrorists and harbored terrorists. He was given one last chance by the UN (and the US) to declare those wmds and he did not. That was why we took out saddam. It was in our strategic interests to do so. Many do not feel that way, but that was the reason that we did it.

Not for OIL..not to make the christian, not to get revenge for dubya's daddy. But because after 9/11 tensions were high and folks thought that any minute a mushroom cloud or poison gas would be relased in NYC or elsewhere. We had just had anthrax mailed to governement offices, newspapers. We had to evacuate one government building for months.

If Al queda hadn't "invaded" iraq I expect we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Are we doing this for our freedom? The usa's freedom?

We did it for the reasons above. We are "doing" it because again it's in our best interests to:
a. Not lose to Al Queda
b. Not allow Iraq to become a failed state.

Not religion, not because it makes us feel good, because it's in our best interests for Iraq to be stood up. Get it?

dude from the neocons point of view, they want a new world order and this administration has did a very good job of starting this and it probably won't be long untill goods flows thru Mexico, USA and Canada like one country.

You mean the Nafta trade agreement that Clinton signed??? Keep your tinfoil hat on, you need it.

Where those 3 countries will be joined at the hip as the neocons has pushed for. It is comming to where when the new world order has higher laws to run all countries and where they keep ripping our constitution apart. It is to far on it's way now and i don't feel any pres can stop it now, no matter their party.

Where is our constitution being "ripped apart"?? The "new world order". What in the world are you talking about?? The UN? Canada/Mexico and the US are the "new world order"? You think europe/china/india/russia might have a little bit to say about that?

Lunacy.

They need the oil flowing freely from the middle east but it is some that do not want to play by those rules.

I've got news for you son, we ALL need oil to flow freely from the middle east. Don't you realize that the economic boom of the last 20 years has saved millions and millions of people from abject poverty and brought them a better life?

Do you want to just turn out the lights and go back to teepees? More lunacy.

[quote] Iran is not going to be a cake walk as it is about 5 times as big as Iraq. Guess who has big ties to that oil dude? China and Russia. Those are some heavy hitters dude not wanting those oil fields bothered. It is dangerous whatever now happens with Iran and now it is more dangerous because we have help knock off one of Iran's biggest enemy, Sadam. [quote]
What's your point? Will you be happier when Iran drops a nuke on Israel? Or kuwait? Or the UAE? You want to just go put your head under the covers and not deal with reality...Sorry it doesn't work that way.

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK that the US leaving Iraq with our tail between our legs will somehow cause Iran to QUIT supporting terrorists throughout the middle east? When will you WAKE UP and read what Iran and Al Queda say.

No matter how much you tremble and hope for the best, Al Queda and Iran will not stop. We have to be steadfast here. It's courage, not cowardice that is needed.

Some of the oil deals being done now are with Iran. I am speaking of Iraq, they are now dealing with Iran. I am not so sure the neocons wanted this. Many people have fled and are fleeing now and the three reported countries most are going is Syria, Jordan and Saudi.

What is your point? Sure Iran has oil, iraq has oil. China is going to build like a zillion coal-fired plants for their energy needs, global warming can kiss their ass for all they care.

Now dude if you are like the neocons and wanting Iran bumped off next, let's use our head first and not just firse the first shot and then bully in and hope for the best. Let's discuss it.

What I want is to continue to pressure Iran as much as possible. I'm not interested in going to war with them. But we cannot be allowed to be run out of the middle-east like the democrats want, we just cannot. It will NOT be pretty.

So you use the things that dubya has been using. You pressure their financial markets, your pressure other companies and business to try and put financial pressure on them. Which has been making an impact by the way.

You try to get the limp-**** UN to do something. You somehow try to persuade the europeans that Iran is laughing their assess off at their attempts to "persuade" them to stop theiir nuclear weapons programs.

Or do you not think they are trying to get nukes either?

Iran is a huge country comparred to Iraq. It has a big border with Pakistan, remember them? Not to friendly with us. Afganistan, Turkmenistan, Iraq. Smaller borders with Turkey, Azerbaijan, plus it is a big country. So put troops and guard Iraq, then invade Iran and then have to close all those borders and guard it? Dude we can get spread to thin.

Quite making crap up. I know my geography. So what do we do if Iran shoots missiles into Iraq and the US contingent there? Sit back and say "please, stop". I'm not advocating invading Iran, but to be honest if we don't give a crap what happens to iran during a war, I'm not that scared of them either.

Our biggest problem with this type of engagement is that it's peace-keeping as well as tracking down terrorists. If Iran attacked us (or if we wanted to attack them) I expect the vaunted Iranian army might not be all that you think. There isn't a military in the world (especially not in the middle east) that could provide much of a challenge to ours.

It would all be in what we wanted to do after an invasion. It sure probably wouldn't be try and democratize Iran because as you mention we do have our hands full.

On the other hand, it might seriously put a dent in al queda support which might have more of an impact than we know.

Remember wars are very unpredictable.

They say that freedom doesn't ring in Iran either. That the guy there rules with a pretty heavy fist as well. So do we go set them free? These things are not minor moves but very major, just as Iraq was. It is hard to do these things going alone. You need help from other countries. Other day on Yahoo news i read where it was reported we was chasing around a 50 man elite force of Iran, inside Iraq. It can make tensions high.

You don't listen well do you. See above..

I am not sure the usa people has the same agenda as the neocons. I don't think they do. We can't change the world or impose world democracy. The best way is not always by the gun to change the world.

No one's trying to "change the world" or "impose world democracy". See above, we have always been motivated by our strategic interests. Nor do we "only" try a gun to "change" the world. The US provides huge humanitarian aid, provide protection for global trade, secure oil lanes. We provide huge amounts of funds and "soft" power all over the place.

Unfortunately sometimes you need a COP. Those that think everything can be solved by talking are the first to yell for a COP.