[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by aquaadverse

Nope. The market didn't setup modern HMOs

yep, hmo's have been around for almost a century, they were a creation of the "market".

or make an employer's portion a deductible expense virtually killing individual policies.

nope, almost 1/3 of those insured are thru individual policies.

The market didn't refuse to reign in frivolous and costly litigation bringing defensive procedures to the process. The market didn't fracture itself into 50 markets. Both Partys are guilty. Characterizing current conditions as a free market with little in the way of regulations setting what's allowable is just flat wrong.

odd, but none of that litany of complaints doesn't explain the issues mentioned, that women pay vastly more than men, and that many necessary procedures for women aren't even covered. care to try again?

If the current proposals go through, the market isn't choosing the Public Option, if it stays, as the only national plan.

yet all thos existing plans remain available to the people to purchase. your point isn't relative.

If you raise the exposure without doing anything to lower costs, you will set up the environment where insurers will leave the market. If the penalties for not offering coverage is lower than company offered coverage, they will stop doing it. And if a small business gets a hardship waiver, guess where the workers get coverage?

completely different issue. let's lower the costs as well.

There isn't anything like a finished Bill to debate yet, and insurance companies don't have to offer coverage. If you abolish caps and make it illegal to consider preexisting conditions they will act like a business. It doesn't, as you keep maintaining, take some explicit law to force them out.

insurance companies "don't have to offer coverage"? uh, no, they don't. thay don't have to offer coverage today, but they do, because that's their business. and they will still offer coverage tomorrow, because that's their business. just like every other business, and just like they have done over time when their regulatory rules have changed, they will adapt to the environment. they will not stop issuing policies and begin making toasters. it's ridiculous to claim they will not continue to be insurers.

the insurers are guilty to using the concept of pre existing conditions as a rationale to either charge exorbinant premiums or to deny benefits when a claim is made. asthma, arthritis, migraines, acne, toe nail fungus, attention deficit disorder, even the fact that an individual has sought therapy...these are not valid reasons for higher premiums or denial of benefits yet they have been used to deny benefits and impose higher costs. clearly this abuse can only be stopped by legislation.