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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6
[url]You consider tax collection a crime? Or "institutionalized looting" as you call it.
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Generally speaking, yes. I think there exceptions and shades of gray, but as a rule I think holding a gun to someone and taking their shit is a crime.
(estate taxes is an exception I'm ok with -- taking the wealth of a dead guy is less bad certainly than taking the income from a living guy.....property taxes don't trouble me too much, that land was there before the property right.....corporate income taxes are bearable, what with corporations being a creation of the state in the first place)
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You are using their services, so you have to pay. Yeah, you are forced to use it in alot of cases, but it is still something our society requires to keep it from breaking into utter chaos. You like having police available incase you need them? Or maybe the fire department? What about the military? Maybe you don't directly rely on them, but the chances you will need them in the future are enough to make it a good idea to pay for them.
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I don't mean to be rude, but this is very old shit for me....I mean, once-upon-a-time I would have implicitly agreed with you but I've been persuaded otherwise. I've encountered the argument you make in one form or fashion about a gillion times since and I didn't find it terribly persuasive the previous gillion times and I'm not likely to find it persuasive today.
In a nutshell, I think we're basically modern Serfs working for a corporate/government alliance of Lords. The argument you make is basically the same as the argument made for serfdom ('sure the serfs are working their butts off for the man, but they need the man for protection...').
Maybe there's something to your argument that serfdom is good for the serfs, but my position is more like, 'so what if it is?' It's not like we really have a choice in the matter one way or the other.