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Originally Posted by aquaadverse
No, I just look at results. Look at W and and his basically smooth early passing of his agenda with all the baggage after the 2000 election. Rove and Cheney's finger prints are all over it. They twisted arms and waltzed the Dems into offering that "rebate".
Obama screwed the pooch and it was unnecessary. Either he refuses to listen or they are flat incompetent.
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to review, you said "He [Emanuel] is still the only one that spent much time in Washington including Obama. It's the classic noobie pattern. Carter and Clinton did the same thing.", to which I replied with a list of several advisors who had been in washington for decades, to which you replied "None of them are close advisers. Whoever is advising him is doing a poor job". I pointed out (correctly I might add) that "you're certainly entitled to your opinion of the advisor's job performance, but tell me, are you there in the white house to be capable of saying who "are close advisors"?".
so to recap, your assertion on the staff not having "spent much time in washington" is wrong, and clearly you do not know who is a "close advisor" and who is not.
the rest is really not worth responding to.
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Yeah, I'm sure he was aware of all the 140 pardons he signed on his last day in office. If you think he was the one who built that list and handed it to the AG office, when those were just the ones who passed, I'd love to see the ones who didn't make the cut. While all of the modern Prez have a couple of controversial pardons none of them were quite as brazen.
And then there was this:
You might think it has no bearing on his ability to make nonpolitical decisions based on "simply right and wrong", but even Holder disagrees with you. He was hauled in front of a pissed off Congress because he gave a "neutral leaning towards favorable" opinion. It's a bit of a stretch to say he was politically neutral as the number two guy, and briefly Bush's AG after recommending the pardon of a person who had been on the FBI's ten most wanted list that fled the country to avoid prosecution. Clinton might have signed the pardon, but the recommendation was his.
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hmm, all that and you still cannot refute my point..it is the president, and ONLY the president, who makes the decision of granting a pardon.
the president decides who gets a pardon. the justice attorney gives input, the president may choose to take to heart the input, or the president can throw it into the trash can and make a decision that is contrary to what justice reccommends.
that is fact, live with it. clinton pardoned marc rich, did so due to a bunch of campaign contributions and also because of lobbying by israel. eric holder did not ask clinton to pardon marc rich, and eric holder wasn't the reason marc rich was pardoned.
what I've noticed is when you are shown to be wrong, you just ignore what you had been wrong about and go off on some long winded discourse.
you are wrong about pardons, and you were wrong about obama's staff.. just live with it and stop the attempts at sidestepping.