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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 8,141
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RE:Intellectual Trade
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Originally posted by: poohrichardson
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Originally posted by: Male23Dan
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Originally posted by: endtroducing
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Originally posted by: alby
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I'm sorry.. but if you don't think Karl Malone and John Stockton.. two players without NBA titles... are all-time greats... you have absolutely no credibility as a judge of basketball talent.
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yes true they are great players.. obviously they are the top 50 greatest players of all time.. but they are not in the same class as jordan, bird, magic, kareem, and in reality even td in a few years...
be honest, winning a championship and being at the peak of your profession is what it is all about..
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oh my dear sweet god. you've got to be kidding me.
by that thinking, that's like saying Bonds isn't one of the all-time greats...seriously, that was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard anyone say. a championship doesn't mean shit...that's a TEAM accomplishment. we're talking about players here. using your logic, Darko has accomplished more than Barkley...
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ET,
I don't get what makes Alby's post "one of the stupidest things YOU'VE ever heard." For that matter, your post has its fair share of stupid comments that should be pointed out... A championship IS a team accomplishment, but to be a GREAT player, you DO need to have the testicular fortitude to lead your troops to the promised land... I believe that definitely seperates the great from the GREAT, if you understand my point... To say that one guy that has averaged 25ppg and 12rpg for his career and never made the playoffs is better than a guy that led his team to the championship 3 times while only averaging 22 and 11 would be incredibly unintelligent... You need to understand that the whole championship point Alby is making has nothing to do with players like Darko. Alby's point is focused on the MAIN guy on a team, (though on Detroit it would be hard to find ONE main guy)... Players like Barkley, who were VERY good, can NOT be put in the same class as those that put up similiar numbers and won the championship... Hell even Barkley would tell you that, (and I think he did on that website where his quotes are collected)...
Look man, the bottom line is that a player like Derek Jeter is better than a player like Miguel Tejada, despite what the numbers say, (and trust me, that is hard to say because I DESPISE the Yankees)... People that come up big and clutch and those that lead are the ones that are respected and looked up to... Does this mean that Barry Bonds isn't one of the all-time greats??? Nope, not a chance... But does it mean that he isn't the best in the game??? You bet your sweet ass it does... If Im an owner and I look for a guy to help me win, do I select a guy that can hit me 50+ homeruns, drive in 120+ RBI, with ZERO leadership abilities and a bad attitude, or a guy that has led his team to the promised land before and will always have an attitude that is looking for the trophy while putting up less numbers??? I think just about EVERYONE would choose the latter, except for you...
So to say that a championship doesn't mean shit in the legacy of a player, (in ANY sport), is just STUPID! It matters to every single one of the guys, and it matters to the media and fans when deciding the best of the best... This is why players like Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Payton, and many others have tried to do whatever it took to win after they came to the conclusion that the team they were on wasn't going to do it!!!
For that to be something that you consider stupid really tells me a lot about the bag of knowledge you bring to this site...
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I think true greats like Stockton, Malone, Barkley, etc.. are truely great because their legacy shines on above many champions despite the fact that they "only" led their teams to the Finals. I mean, come on.. did anyone really expect the Jazz or Suns to beat the Bulls? You could have had Chamberlain in his PRIME against Jordan's Bulls and he wouldn't have been able to win. Oop! I guess that means he isn't an all-time great!
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I know you have trouble understanding points based on past threads, but I will again try to break this down for you... I didnt say that guys like Stockton, Malone, Barkley, and others in their position were not all-time greats... I said: "I believe that definitely seperates the great from the GREAT." Now, if you are suggesting that Stockton, Malone, Barkley, etc... deserve to be in the GREAT category, well then we do disagree... To put Stockton, Malone, or Barkley next to Jordan and call them his equal is ridiculous, (and this should be fair, because Malone has better numbers than MJ)...
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