[Male30Dan]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
Barkley was a 6'4 PF that led a pretty crappy Suns team to the Finals and nearly upset chicago. What's your point??? Does this somehow put him in the same league as those that have the same numbers and have won titles??? No!!! Stockton and Malone are two of the best players to ever lace up a pair of shoes...This is your opinion... I personally think that Malone is a guy that was lucky to play so long without injury, and was simply a good scorer/shooter... He did nothing that REALLY made his team special, (when they were good and went to the finals, he had a GREAT supporting cast)... Stockton is one of the greats, but I just cant say he is the best PG of all time because despite all of his assists and steals, he never could lead his team to a championship... Hell, if a guy plays 15 years, stays healthy, and is pretty good, they are going to have a great career regarding their final numbers... I think Stockton and Malone both fall under that category...I dont Michael Jordan is his own entitity, comparing him to anyone else is impossible... That is FAR from true... He can be compared to a good 10-15 guys and can be done so with a straight face but to suggest that those kind of guys aren't 'all-time' greats of the sport is crazy.Again, again, again, again, again... I didnt say they werent all time greats... I said that they can't be put up there with the guys that had their same numbers and won championships... This means that if there are 10 guys that are career 25pt and 10reb guys in NBA History, and 5 of them won championships as the main guy on a team, that the other five guys that didnt simply are not in the same leauge as the guys that did... How does that not make sense to you??? All three of those guys will be first ballot hall of famers and are three of the truely great PLAYERS (not teams) the league has ever seen...Regarding the hall of fame, that is a given... Again, I consider them all-time greats... Everything else is your opinion and you are entitled to it anyone will pale in comparison with Jordan, but really, to even suggest that those three aren't even on his 'level' is crazy.Is it crazy??? I dont think so... I can list you SEVERAL other guys that I think are above Barkley, Malone, and Stockton if you would like... Basically, they are the players with similiar career numbers that have won championships... they were his peers and gave him some of the toughest competition he ever saw. really, in Jordan's era, how many other teams won a Finals? uh, zero? So the fact that Jordan was so good means the guys that couldn't get it done get a free pass... Please, not here!!! And several other teams won NBA championships during Jordan's years!!! yeah. does Ewing compare to Horace Grant or Cartwright?Ugh... I told you already that this is based on a teams best guy or best guys... It was not Horace Grant's Bulls but it was Ewing's Knicks or what about him compared to Hakeem? do you still think he wasn't one of the best centers ever?Why wouldnt I think he was one of the best centers ever??? He won two championships and had great numbers... Of course I do!!!

fact is, the guys I mentioned were true leaders and motivators that had the ability to make their entire teams better. and they generally had no one else on their team. now, if that isn't an AMAZING accomplishment, I don't know what is... I guess you dont know what is

Jordan's titles don't mean anything, in terms of individual play...That statement is BS I don't give a shit what his team did. I'm talking from a pure talent, grit and leadership level (which Barkley, Malone and Stockton all favorably compare to Jordan, as much as one could). Jordan had entire teams constructed around him...without Pippen, Rodman, Harper or Kerr he wouldn't have half the titles he does. This could be said about all championship teams, as it isn't one versus 12... That is common sense stuff... Of course his team helped him get those titles, but do you really think any other guy plopped into that supporting cast could have won like he did???those three did more with less than anyone else I've seen, did amazing things, played team ball, won MVPs...as individuals, they are TRUELY all-time greats, which is what matters.In your opinion, that is what matters. In my opinion, that PLUS the ability to win a championship matters. There's 11 other guys on the damn team, you know...seriously, do you think Bonds never winning a title hurts his chances at being an all-time great? of course not.AGAIN, I didnt say that guys that didnt win keeps them from being one of the all time greats, but AGAIN, those with similiar numbers that did win should be considered better. it's about the PLAYER. not the team. without the other guys, Jordan wouldn't have won...had other players been surrounded with his supporting cast, I'm sure they could have.I guess you answered my question as to whether or not you were suggesting that... Who knows if they could have or not... Fact of the matter is that those guys own no rings, and I think that keeps them from being spoken of in the same breath as the guys that put up career numbers similiar to them and DID win...

and the insults are really childish and kind of uncalled for. we're all Mavericks fans here.The insults were directed mainly at Pooh, but try to remember who took this thread down the path of insults... I was simply taking up for Alby and making my point after you bashed her with INSULTS... My point is common sense and I dont get how either you or Pooh have a leg to stand on in this discussion... The argument, AGAIN, is simple, and is as follows: PLAYER A AVERAGES 25 AND 10 AND HAS 3 RINGS... PLAYER B AVERAGES 26 AND 11 AND HAS 0 RINGS... PLAYER A IS BETTER... We are all Mavs fans though, so in the spirit of Mavs, lets just agree to disagree on this topic...