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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Science isn't talking about God because there is no theoretical or empirical basis for it. God isn't even on the radar for Scientists. God and religion will never be attacked by science and personal beliefs will always be based on "faith" which is by its very definition-- irrational. Science doesn't tell us why or who. It tells us "how" and "what".
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First EL, I wand to apologize to you, Dirk, and anyone else if I have offended anyone. You may or may not have had me in mind when you replied, but either way, I enjoy the debate -- and often think I am right (when does anyone think they are wrong) and usually am (my arrogance kicking in). There are only a few things that I will really keep offering my opinion on over and over -- and this happens to be one of them because I feel it is a very important subject.
With this said, there are several different forms of science as well as many different forms of religion. Science (the religion of) teaches evolution -- it is wrong -- it has been proven wrong by scientific testing. It is not taught that way though, so all science just gets jumbled into the "entire" group of calling it a religion by people who have to take a side.
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Science is the pursuit of truths that can be proven.
Talking snakes,
men living in whales,
spontaneous human cloning from DNA rib tissue (capable of producing viable offspring nonetheless)
These would all be of great interest to science. If they could be recreated, replicated or even if they had happened more than once, scientists would love to figure out how current theories are wrong, because snakes don't talk in science nor in our every day experience. People cannot survive in the Ph of a whale stomache, so it would be interesting to research how someone could. Spontaneous human cloning that defies the laws of thermodynamics? That would be wild.
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And yet -- science (evolution) says that man came from a premordial soup, or ape, or frog, or or or........ kiss a frog and he becomes a prince - just add time.
And the laws of thermodynamics will not allow for the earth to be over a few thousand years old either.
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I think you just have to accept that your faith will have to either become irrational or you will have to tweak elements of your faith. Science has proven beyond any doubt that the Earth is not the center of the universe, not the only planet and ours is not the only solar system by far. Somehow, Christianity got over that when the science was developed enough (after fighting it tooth and nail for years).
Is a literal interpretation of the bible (that has already been contradicted a few times by science) that important to you? We are made up of genes-- does that mean God doesn't exist or love you? The Earth is not the center of the universe-- that that mean anything to faith?
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This gets back to the problem I have with science and religion. You say that science has proven we are not the center of the universe, but the Bible never says we are the center of the universe. It says the heavens (galaxy's etc) and then the earth were created. So how would this conflict with anything?
Yes, the church once thought we were, but so did science at the time. Science proved it, and eventually the church agreed (after lots of prodding)
I realize that some church's -- specifically the Roman Catholic church thinks you need a priest to tell you what the Bible says, and interpret it, and tell you how the world is, etc -- but this is a differing opinion about the bible from me.
Snakes (serpent) talking, making a woman from the DNA of a man's rib, etc...I can't prove. In the end, I think it is more likely to be able to reproduce a person from the DNA of a person than to reproduce a person from a rock or a slug or an ape.
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I personally more wonder in the complexity of this marvelous machine more satisfying than the myths they replaced. God's wonder is huge and more complex than any human can even comprehend. We just keep finding smaller particles and bigger spaces and complexity inside complexity. I find it amazing and faith-supporting rather than an attack on my spirituality.
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Once again, I understand, and I apologize if I have attacked anyone's beliefs or spirituality.
I just think that this subject is extremely important for lots of reasons. IF their is no God like the religion of science suggests - then why be moral, why are we here, etc. If the Bible is wrong, then actions are blurred and we have been lied to by everyone.
But if the Bible is correct and God inspired instead of man written -- then we have a purpose. We are all sinners. We are guilty of breaking Gods rules. Either we will be judged or we will find a replacement...ie Jesus. And if it is true -- then there is something beyond the few years we have physically on this earth and we should act morally.
Maybe I am totally wrong, but eternity sure seems like a LONG LONG time. I would rather use true science to confirm what I think I know, than to try to make up theories to destroy. You have to be a horrid gambler to bet nothingness against eternity, IMO. The odds are stacked against you.
If I am wrong, then I spent hours researching the what's and why's. I tried to find out the who's and when's. I tried to learn what LOVE is... (1John 4:8 .....God is Love). If God is in control, and God is Love ......... then what really is LOVE? (this is one very very deep question for "others" to determine themselves) I have tried to act morally, and tried to determine what "moral" was. I have failed at many things and sinned against God's ways, but have also learned why most of these rules are in place. Selfish vs Selfless. If I am right though, I found eternity.
All in all though, I spent time doing something that could help others. I have tried to believe because it made the most logical sense. I have used science to try to strengthen what I know, instead of making up things to try and tear it down.
Like I said before -- Science --- the testing and determination of truth is a wonderful thing, IMO. Science the religion that makes wild assumptions, and then teaches it as truth, I have a problem with. My problem is that every child that spends up till their XX old being told that the earth is millions of years old and that we came from nothing and that there is no God......means that their is no HOPE, and eternity is such a long time. Teach a child that he is an animal long enough, then why be surprised when he acts like one. Teach a child that we have no future, then why be surprised when they act like there is no future. Teach a child there is no God, then why be surprised when they act they don't have to answer to anyone. Teach a child to be selfish and all about themselves, then why be surprised when the only thing they start worrying about is themselves and their own "pleasures" and not others -- yes this talks directly to abortion, divorce, and pre/extra marital affairs as well as slavery, the murder rate, and suicide.
All of it ties together.
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With this said, I am not trying to attack anyone, and I know that everyone has to make their own choices. I just don't want people to say in the end that they "never" heard any of this stuff- They only heard what they were taught in school.