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Old 01-30-2019, 09:47 AM   #111
MavzMan
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Originally Posted by sefant77 View Post
Yes please! Im a science guy, so i really love facts, you know? Cant wait to read some good explanation why the Big Bang Theory is bullshit and "god" created everything snipping his hands for seven days.

Would also love to read the facts about Moses recieving the 10 commandments. In this story it always annoyed me that he claimed it but was alone on that hill. But maybe i missed it and he had his GoPro with him and videotaped it and there is proof. Ah and virgin Maria is also a big one, cant wait for the facts how she received a child without....u know...

Na sorry, thats too easy. You told its a FACT that god exists. So now please deliver them.

Yeah because "someone" creating the world in seven days, cutting a rip out and creating a female person out of it, receiving a child without human intercourse etc etc etc etc...that makes so much more sense

Taking land from native people and kill them all in the name of god...yes, you are right. I mean im german so i know the history of the church pretty well and how the church was until the late 1800s pretty much involved in every conflict, war etc. In europe, during the crusades etc. Was just lovely stuff happening over almost 2000 years in the name and "believes" of "god"
And then this lovely stuff of ten thousands of child abuse scandals with a systematic cover up, lovely.

Or that lovely missionar going to the Sentinal Islands. People minding is own business for thousands of year, never tried to reach out, never tried to attack or hurt anyone outside of their island...but yet this guy and his organisation thought they have the RIGHT to force their believes onto this people. Knowing they would endanger the entire tribe getting wiped out by an disease they cant handle. Ah remember that interview with Mary Ho from All Nations after the death of this guy? She sais they sent him and that the travel ban was lifted and it was legal for him to go there. They sent him on a tourist visa there because legally he had to apply for a missionars visa that he would never ever had gotten claiming he wanna go to the Sentinal. So this lovely christian woman just lied coldblooded on purpose to millions of viewers. Thats the spirit!


Sorry, thats not proof of anything

If you refuse to argue after stating that you have facts/proof for your claims, then dont start this whole crap in the beginning. Thats just lame.
There is no doubt that discussing God and faith is one of the most difficult things to do between someone that truly believes and someone that does not while at the same time making jokes, sneers, and sarcasm. There really is nothing that Male30Dan can say or do that will change your mind if you choose not to even consider what he says or does. If I come to you with open hands and a bible while you come to me swinging a baseball bat, I'm going to get beat up and it has nothing do with me the bible being true or false.

Sefant77 you, like most people on this board, are a smart guy. It's why I've been lurking and posting here for over 10 years. If you say you are "a science guy, (and) really love facts", I would honestly say to just take time and think about what you believe and ask why, while being ready for answers that may not align with what you originally thought. And don't go through the process with a baseball bat, but instead do it with a cup of coffee and maybe another person that is in the same mindset.

This is a good book to start at and get your mind going down the investigation road and is written by a journalist that was hard core atheist until his wife started believing:
The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel

I'm not stupid and think that reading that book will convert you, but it's a quick read and is a jumping off point for questions that have been asked above.

As a rebuttal to some of the comments:

Big Bang Theory - I actually this one lines up with God pretty well. Where exactly did all of this matter in the Big Bang come from? It just appeared in the blink of an eye, exploded on the scene and started cooling off? For a long time, it was theorized that the Big Bang happened for a source, matter blew apart and then it would start contracting just to repeat again. Well, it's been recently that the universe is actually speeding up blowing apart rather than slowing down. This doesn't really line up too well with the Big Bang.

Creating the world in seven (literal) days - This is a tough for even the hard core bible scholars. They agree/disagree on whether this is a literal seven days or a general timeline. Before you start saying "well what's true and not true?", one of the first things you get from the bible is that Jesus spoke in parables in order to get his point across to the people. So not everything in the bible is 100% literal. Again, if you truly want answers, you have to find them as Male30Dan said.

The Virgin Mary - I really like this one actually. This is probably the most easiest to defend in this time when artificial insemination happens every day. We believe in insemination science but we rule out that a creator of the universe couldn't do it.

Crusades - Believe it or not, bad people do bad things while using good things. This happens all the time. There is truth in the saying, "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." The fact is that all men (and women) sin and fall short. When the more corrupt get into positions of authority, even worse things happen.

For people like you, and I'm in your boat of 'I like facts', this is a difficult road. It would be amazing if you could come to a faith in God and Jesus with just a couple of forum posts. I would make Billy Graham look like nothing. So I'm taking you at your word and not assuming you to be sarcastic, start with basic or fundamental questions and look for an answer that you believe. The worst that could happen is that it just reinforces your own faith which is already athiestic. But looking an answer that doesn't align with your means honestly talking with people that don't believe like you.

Did Jesus really exist? Look at the corroborating evidence that he actually existed. That he was gaining followers, was persecuted, and was crucified or killed.

What proof is there that he rose from the dead? Why did the women initially see it? The women part is important.

If Jesus is God, why didn't he just *poof* everyone into submission and make things perfect? This one leads into why does God allow bad things to happen like a car wreck, accidental shooting, or even mass shooting.

Is the bible accurate? It was written by over 40 authors and more than 1,000 years. People think the bible is a single book but it's not. If it's written by 40 authors, where is it contradicting itself? How does it hold up against itself?

What is this holy trinity stuff? Father, Son, Spirit? That's a good one and will have to come later when you have started down the belief road because it'll blow your mind. It still blows mine.

Did God create the universe or did it pop into existence? It's really interesting to see verses in the bible that were later actually proved by science hundreds and hundreds of years later. It takes investigation if you truly want answers.

Let's say that there is a creator of the universe, what does that mean for him and me personally? This is another one that is really deep and will require a basic level of belief and faith to step into.

Last edited by MavzMan; 01-30-2019 at 09:48 AM.
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