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Originally Posted by saclare
Hmm a career .300 hitter, 7 time all-star, gold glove winner, leadership role for years, intangibles (when it comes to a Mt. Rushmore)...
He's far from average, come on...
And the year you referenced was his age 33 season in which he had a down year, still hit .284 with 21 HRs and 91 RBI. He bounced back pretty strongly in 2011. It was also the year where his issues arose with the Rangers and he requested a trade. First year he primarily DH'd and used more like a utility infielder, occasionally playing first base. I think he can get a slight mental pass there.
In any event, he most definitely belongs in the conversation with Nolan and Pudge when discussing who would rep the Rangers.
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Michael Young had three years with an OPS+ above 110 in his career. Keep in mind that 100 is league average. His career OPS+ was 104. As a hitter, he was slightly above average. He just didn't get on base enough for a guy that didn't have a ton of power. I know you can look at his numbers and think he had some pop, but in that era in baseball, he really didn't have much.
Defensively, I know he won a gold glove, but he was bad.. His dWAR for his career was a -10.5. For as big of bad rap as Dirk gets for his defense..think worse..far, far worse..significantly worse. No, he didn't make a ton of errors, he just didn't have any range. Again, his WAR for his career was 24.6 What does that tell you? 0-2 for a WAR in a single season is basically a sub level. 2+ is a starter level. During his PRIME years in Texas, he had a combined WAR of 27.4 over the 10 year period. That's a starter but far below an All-Star level. Not one year in his career did his WAR even approach All-Star level.
Michael Young will always be the beneficiary of advanced metrics not being main stream in the baseball world. If they were during his prime, he would have been looked at in a much different light.
He was a pretty good to good player. But if he's on your Mount Rushmore..your Mount Rushmore sucks especially if you're just picking one person from each sport.
In contrast, Pudge's career WAR was 68.7 with a 10 year stretch in Texas totaling 47.4..averaging playing right about at an All-Star level year in and year out).
And for reference, in Ryan's 4 full years in Texas from age 42-45, his WAR averaged 4.0...
I know that Palmeiro isn't going to get alot of votes from anyone, but he belongs right up there.
Jim Sundberg belongs up there ahead of Michael Young. He was a generational type talent defensively and developed into a decent hitter.
Toby Harrah vs Michael Young would be an interesting argument. Harrah was the better player for his career but you could make an argument for Young over Harrah because of the amount of time he spent with Texas.
I would put Charlie Hough right there with Michael Young as well. ERA+ of 111 in his 10+ years in Texas with 139 wins.
And trust me, I know that it's difficult to use WAR comparing pitchers and hitters... Advanced metrics aren't everything. But they do a pretty good job. Defensive metrics are flawed, but over the course of a career, they tend to be a pretty good indicator of whether or not you're a good fielder.