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Originally Posted by alexamenos
and my point was that machiavelli was off the mark a bit....it's true that politicians do what keeps them in power--staying in power IS the goal of government....security, economics and stability are some of the ostensible goals that politicians talk about 'to appease the people'....these are things they talk about because they want (*ahem*) "your ignorant vote", not because these are inherently goals of government.
cheers
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That is basically what I meant by the first theory wherein I said that Machiavelli taught that politicians (princes) should do what they have to do to stay in power.
And, so, after all of that, we are sitting here in agreement...
By the way, it is quite fun to talk to a good African American man (my brother in law) who is also Catholic and votes the straight Democratic line. He has so many inconsistencies between the Catholic Church and the Democratic platform. I have a lot of fun discussing politics with him. We get along great and the discussion is always amicable.
Hope I didn't offend you by misrepresenting your earlier intention/meaning.
I'm neither Republican or Democrat. I don't think George W. Bush compares well mentally (as to his capability) with any president in my lifetime. But, he might be in the same group as Jimmy Carter when it comes down to honesty. I don't think Bush lied about the intelligence on Iraq. He may have been lied to (and may have been too slow to figure out he was lied to) but I don't think he lied to us about what he thought was going on.
Carter and George W. are about as far opposite in their views as imaginable, but at least both seem honest. Neither agreed with Machiavelli if they studied his work.
I'd rather have an honest person with limited abilities than a lying genius. Machiavelli would support the lying genius.
I'm sure a lot of people think George W. lied. I think he was lied to and told us what he honestly thought the truth was. We'll never know for sure.