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Originally Posted by LRB
I'd definitely take Dirk, Duncan, and LeBron over Kobe without much hesitation. I would probably end up putting him in the top 5 but I'd think much harder about it than choosing my top 3. Given a very strong supporting cast Kobe and Yao would have good chance at a tiltle, but it would depend on how good the rest of the team was and it Yao could stay healthy. I definitely wouldn't say it would be a sure fire dynasty. But Shaq just won a title with DShoulder, and I'd rate a heathly Yao over cryboy.
Again, I'll say that Kobe has lots of talent. When it comes to manufactoring a shot for himself, I don't know if anyone comes close to Kobe. Kobe is probably the best at getting 50 or more on any given night. But to build a team around to win a championship, I don't think that Kobe is near as great. I'd take kobe over AI, Mello, Garnett, Arenas, and most of the players in the league. I wouldn't take him over Dirk, Duncan, or LeBron. I'd think about taking him over Nash, TMac, Yao, or Dwight Howard.
My biggest concern with Kobe is not so much his talent as his attitude and his leadership. I'd place Nash head and shoulders over Kobe in attitude and leadership, but Kobe's much higher in talent IMO. I just don't see much hope for Kobe to change his attitude. Maybe after several years of either missing the playoffs or getting 1st round exits he might. Definitely he can win a championship if surrounded with enough talent. Of course there are scores of players who could do that. I think the level of talent that Kobe needs is smaller than most All-star players. Definitely top 10, probably top 5, but not in the top 3. Of course if he could get calls like Dshoulder did in the finals through the whole playoffs that might change. But I doubt even DWhistle gets anywhere close to that amount of overt favortism by the refs over any significant stretch in the playoffs agains.
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See, I can respect your post because you told me why you dont consider him because of his attitude, and that is what you include in rating players. I can see why you say that, but all in all the fact remains that there is no better player than Kobe in the league. Seriously, we are not talking about developing teams around him, we are just talking personal best player in the NBA.
Just to be clear, if I was just building around a team, then Nash would NEVER be on my list to build around him because he needs other stars to compete on the highest level. Yes, he makes average players better. If you put a bunch of average players around Nash, all you would have is a team full of role players and that will not go a long way in the NBA.
I would rate Dirk alot higher than Nash, because of the factors that Dirk brings to ANY team. I would even rate Wade NOT so high, because I feel he needs a dominant center to bring his team to the next level.
So, if I factor in building a team with great role players around the superstar I would rank in this order.
1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. Dirk
4. Wade
5. Yao
6. Nash
When I rate the best player, I factor in who is the best "Go to Guy", who hits the big shots, who would you want for Game 7, who is unguardable no matter what, who will play tough defense, who has the highest basketball "IQ", who has won titles, who hits pressure shots/free throws. All these things to me is what makes the best player according to "Who is the best player. Now, sometimes this does not mean "MVP", because to me, that is when you consider who makes his teammates better, and include attitude. This to me, is why I feel Kobe has never won "MVP". I would not give him the MVP as well in any of his years. But, I do think he is moving in the right direction.