O'Neal wouldn't have re-signed if he knew Thomas would be fired

[Tony tha Mavs fan]

O'Neal wouldn't have re-signed if he knew Thomas would be fired

By CHRIS SHERIDAN, AP Basketball Writer
August 28, 2003
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) -- Jermaine O'Neal would not have re-signed with the Indiana Pacers if he had known they were going to fire Isiah Thomas.

``I don't know who I would have signed with, but I would not have signed back there. Bottom line,'' O'Neal said early Thursday at the Tournament of the Americas, where he is competing for the United States in qualifying for the 2004 Olympics.

Visibly angered and upset by the move to fire Indiana's coach, O'Neal said he'll address the situation with the Pacers' front office next week. He would not answer when asked if he would demand a trade.



``Am I disappointed? Hell, yeah. I'm extremely disappointed for multiple reasons,'' O'Neal said. ``I was told he would be here before I re-signed.''

``If your boss told you your ace is going to be there for you if you come back, and once you come back not even a month later he's not there, that hurts. That hurts a lot. He was more than a coach to be. He was like a father.''

O'Neal joined the Pacers three years ago after Larry Bird resigned and was replaced by Thomas. Indiana made the playoffs for three straight years but was eliminated in the first round each time.

Bird, who returned to the Pacers last month as their president of basketball operations, fired Thomas on Wednesday and said the team plans to hire Rick Carlisle as its new coach.

O'Neal got the news in a phone call from Thomas.

``It was extremely strange. I was taking a nap and got the phone call and was like, let me sit up for a second, you're kidding me,'' O'Neal said. ``I was extremely excited about coming back into the situation. We have a crew that's been together for a while and is really ready to focus in on trying to get to the NBA Finals. I don't know exactly where my organization is trying to go. I'm kind of dumbfounded right now.''

O'Neal said he telephoned Bird and team president Donnie Walsh asking for an explanation, giving no details except to say it was a brief discussion.

He said it was Walsh who assured him during contract negotiations that Thomas would return. O'Neal signed a seven-year, $126 million deal.

``To me, it's mind-blowing that we would do this, and do it 4-5 weeks before the season,'' O'Neal said. ``I'm more hurt than anything.''

O'Neal had spoken with Thomas earlier this week in Puerto Rico, where Thomas was attending the Tournament of the Americas.

Thomas checked out of his hotel unexpectedly Tuesday after being summoned back to Indianapolis.

``He didn't really sound upset. I think he's more hurt than anything. He's been trying to scrap up new plays, new ways to get his players motivated,'' O'Neal said.

O'Neal spoke on the phone with teammates Al Harrington, Jonathan Bender and Jamison Brewer after learning of the firing.

``Everybody's just extremely surprised. We were geared up to go at this real strong. Now we've got to retool, look at a new system,'' O'Neal said. ``I mean, I don't know if we're really trying to win the championship this year.''

Bird said he didn't feel comfortable with the Pacers' direction after a second-half swoon that knocked them out of first place in the Eastern Conference. Bird also said there were other problems with Thomas, including a lack of communication this summer.

O'Neal defended Thomas, saying the public never knew that he occasionally slept in his office at Conseco Fieldhouse after staying late to draw up game plans.

``The slump at the end of the season, we were still 16 games over .500. What else do you want?'' O'Neal said. ``I thought in this league you're determined on what you do, wins and losses. He's 16 games better than he was the year before, and he's taking one of the youngest teams in the league and making them contenders and giving us confidence to say that we feel we can come out of the East and get to the finals.

``That was our goal, but all of a sudden now we're not really trying to get to the finals. We're trying to get guys together and compete. I didn't come back to Indiana just to compete. I want to win the finals.''

O'Neal had a poor game for the U.S. team Wednesday night in a 96-69 victory over Mexico, fouling out in just 12 minutes after scoring 11 points and grabbing seven rebounds.

``I'm continuing to figure it out every single year: Life is a challenge, and the ones that succeed in life are the tough-minded ones that are not willing to accept failure,'' O'Neal said. ``And no matter what, at the end of the day whether it's with the Pacers or somewhere else, I'm going to continue to succeed.''

[Tony tha Mavs fan]

The Pacers gave Jermaine Oneil the biggest shaft in getting rid of Thomas. He gets an assurance from Donnie Walsh just 2 months earlier that Isiah is gonna be coach, and he does this. I wouldn't be surprised if Jermaine Oneal demands to be traded, after that big contract he signed for 7 years , you would think the star player on their team would be informed before a major transaction such as this takes place, especially when assured all summer that Isaiah is sticking around to be head coach of that team .

[seelenjaeger]

Too bad that Jermaine is a BYC player now - which makes him extremely hard to move.

To denver for Camby might work though ...

[MavKikiNYC]

Makes you wonder if the situation with Thomas wasn't much, much worse than was apparent to the general public.

To make a move like this, and risk alienating not only your franchise player in O'Neal, but also a good part of the team in Harrington, Bender, and problem-child-of-problem-children Artest......a coach like Carlisle coming in is certainly going to have his work cut out for him.

O'Neal sounds pretty immature about the whole thing. Thomas is a basketball coach, not a wet nurse. Suck it up and play, son.

[Big Boy Laroux]

kiki, i was about to say the same thing. the guy is a professional. he gets payed to play. he needs to suck it up.

did he think thomas would be his coach for the remainder of his contract? if he wasn't gone this year, he'd be gone the next.

i will say that the timing does seem somewhat strange. they waited a while to make the decision. perhaps they really wanted to have o'neal signed first, but like you said kiki, other things may have happened that we don't know about.

[Drbio]

O'Neal sounds pretty immature about the whole thing. Thomas is a basketball coach, not a wet nurse. Suck it up and play, son.

Greatness.

[dirno2000]

His response is understandable.

First of all, he was led to believe his coach would be back when he resigned. He had the opportunity to go to the Spurs which, IMO, would have made them to favorites to will it all again. Had he known he probably would have at least taken a visit (for Dallas' sake, I’m glad this didn't happen).

Also, Isiah was obviously more than a coach to him. While I too think he should have been fired, the timing was unfair. Walsh had to know what he was doing. Now all the openings have been filled. When you feel like someone close to you is wronged, and you have a mic in your face shortly thereafter it's hard to say all the right things. He didn't demand a trade, he just said he was upset.

He will go back to Indiana, the new brain trust will tell him what he wants to hear and he will calm down. He'll make a statement about giving the new coach a chance; he'll play hard this year and once again be one of the best players in the East.

[Simon2]

O'Neal, you are earning millions of dollars to play the game you love. Stop complaining like a "b_tch"!

[MFFL]

Originally posted by: Simon2
O'Neal, you are earning millions of dollars to play the game you love. Stop complaining like a "b_tch"!

What do you do for a living? Wouldn't you "b_tch" a little if YOUR job situation changed drastically despite promises to the contrary?

I think this move removes any chance that Indiana wins the East (not that they had a good one). Lying to your star player ALWAYS comes back to bite you in the ass.

[MavsFanFinley]

For those that say he needs to suck it up and play on, think of it this way.

The Mavs want to sign Dirk to a max contract and gurantee that Nash will be maxed out the following year to ensure they play together another 5 years.

Dirk signs this summer, and Nash is traded before the deadline.

Now, it's Dirk making comments like O'Neal is above.

What then?

[Drbio]

I tell Dirk to suck it up and play. Sure he would be disappointed, but the bottom line is that the NBA is a business. Business decisions are not always the most employee friendly. Sad but true.

[MavsFanFinley]

For the record, I stated that I didn't think O'Neal would be upset after the contract he just signed. I was wrong, but I do believe he gets over it quickly if Carlisle is on board as coach.

I posted that example above with Dirk and Nash to see what Mavs fans (who made comments here about O'Neal) thought if the situation was within our organization.

[kg_veteran]

I think that we have a hard time relating to NBA players who complain like this because of the vast amount of money they make for playing a game. However, MFFL does raise a valid point. I'm sort of in the "suck it up" camp myself, but the appearance of deception definitely exists. And the difference here and in the "real world" is that O'Neal can't just walk away -- he has to stay in Indiana for the duration of his contract, unless he wants to retire, which isn't realistic considering the money involved.

Nonetheless, I think Thomas had to be fired because he was a bad coach, and I think O'Neal will get over it once Carlisle gets there and sells his system.

[Big Boy Laroux]

i'd tell dirk to suck it up. this is a job. if i took a new position because my boss said a co-worker i liked would be there, too, and then that co-worker leaves the company or is fired, tough. i have to suck it up.

Now, if it were in a contract, that's a different story, as that is legally binding. but no one would put that in a contract.

also, like KG said, o'neal will more than likely be fine with carlisle. players complain about coaches being fired all the time. rarely do individuals follow through with empty threats of demanding trades.

[Hitman]

Its been said already in this post, but I have to say it....

Suck it up. The Pacers are not screwing Jermaine O'Neal. They are paying him one hundred and twenty MILLION dollars. They fired a coach that had three players who should have been all stars last year and was barely over .500 and lost in the first round of the playoffs. Everyone knew he was not a great coach, and Larry knew that a great coach was available. Bada Bing, bada boom.

If that situation that MFF suggested happened with Dirk, I would say the same thing. These guys DO NOT RUN THE ORGANIZATION. They are players, and they are paid to do a job on the court.

End of story.

[MFFL]

I wonder if O'Neal has considered trying a legal solution to this situation. He feels like he was given a verbal agreement that Thomas would stay on so he signed a contract. You would think he would be able to get out of the contract since the signing of the contract was under false pretenses.

[Big Boy Laroux]

i see that mffl, but how could they prove that? it would just be he said, he said. unless the pacers were dumb enough to have it on paper, a la the wolves.

[Drbio]

Wasn't it basically discussed in the news. I imagine that it could be substantiated. I'd like to hear OP's (or any of our lawyers) take on that.

BUT....he should still suck it up and I doubt seriously that it would be in his best interests to contest that contract.

[Hitman]

Originally posted by: MFFL
I wonder if O'Neal has considered trying a legal solution to this situation. He feels like he was given a verbal agreement that Thomas would stay on so he signed a contract. You would think he would be able to get out of the contract since the signing of the contract was under false pretenses.

No.

First of all, there is no precedent for such a thing. It would never happen. Coaches change all the time in pro sports.

Second, if O'Neal got out of his ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLAR contract, where is he going? Who is going to pay him that amount of money?

Nobody.

[MFFL]

Originally posted by: Big Boy Laroux
i see that mffl, but how could they prove that? it would just be he said, he said. unless the pacers were dumb enough to have it on paper, a la the wolves.

A verbal contract is still a contract. If he said "I'm signing this deal with the understanding that Thomas will be the coach" then the Pacers are screwed. Proof is easy to get - O'Neal publically said that Thomas has to stay for him to stay and Thomas wasn't fired until AFTER O'Neal signed. Did Thomas lose the team in the few weeks since O'Neal signed?

[Jeremiah]

I'm in the "suck it up" camp.

However, here's an interesting POV. O'neal isn't just being given $120 million, he's earning it. He's getting paid that because the Pacers think he's integral to their bottom line, or at least that's how I perceive it. As difficult as it is for me to relate to getting paid to play, he is part of a business, and the business needs him. It seems like he got taken for a ride.

Admittedly, I don't know contract law, but it would seem that if this could be judged in another context, just on the principles of contract law, which of course, I don't know, a verbal contract would be valid.

[EricaLubarsky]

I will never by a Larry Bird endorsed TV dinner ever again. Okay Im kidding; I dont eat TV dinners, but seriously the guy is a JACKASS. It makes you love Marc Cuban for all his quirks just because he has some morals and isn't afraid of being honest. Ill believe that until Cuban does something wrong like manipulating O'Neal.

one more thing; business is business and you have to accept that, but was business business for Enron? What about the 80s during times of hostile takeovers? Whoever was in charge, manipulated facts to improve the outlook of the company (and yes the Pacers are a company). You can make employees move around you can beef up your stock with others, but you can't cheat on a deal and lie to improve company stock. C'mon.

[EricaLubarsky]

Second, if O'Neal got out of his ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY MILLION DOLLAR contract, where is he going? Who is going to pay him that amount of money?

I know one billionaire who is interested in maybe a 5-year 24 million dollar deal. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[FilthyFinMavs]

Thats very very shady on the Pacers part. They knew they had no intentions of bring Isiah back. Thats like the Mavs telling Dirk that they will resign Nash but end up trading him away. There are pros and cons when you are coming into the league at 18. Jermaine is still a kid. Shady on the Pacers part. That team is going to be a wreck this season. Nothing worse than your franchise player disliking you.

[Drbio]

Once O'neal sees what Carlisle can bring (a winning program that Isaiah Thomas could only dream of) and he starts counting all those dollars and seeing victories....he won't be upset. He will be a pro and play hard and win games. He's just blowing off steam right now.

Book it. The guy will be fine with a significantly better coach (Carlisle)

[mmmfast]

Thomas was crap for a coach. The only thing he had going was a rep and respect from his players cuz he was on a badass team back in the day. He had tons of talent on the roster and still couldn't get it done.

Carlisle on the other hand had slim pickins in Detroit and look how far he took that bunch. O'neal was lied to and that sucks but it was an upgrade for the organization...even if that organization is run by shady cheats and liars.

[Big Boy Laroux]

how much say does bird have in this? is he president of basketball operations?

anyway, he waited a while (after getting his job) to fire thomas. it appears as though he did not make a rash decision...