Barry Bonds is awesome

[grbh]

You might hate him, but the guy to this point in the season might be surpassing his amazing 2001-2002 campaign. Here are stats extrapolated.

Runs: 138
HR: 58
RBI: 100
Walks: 212 (It would be amazing to see what he could do if anyone would pitch to him.
SO: 38 (When was the last time someone hit 50 homers with fewer than 50 Ks, probably never)
OB%: 615
Slugging: 921
Avg: 386

In my lifetime I have never seen a baseball player as dominant as Bonds has been over the last year and a half. He may get 200 walks this year which is sick.

[Bayliss]

And playing in a waterdowned league with small ballparks, horrid pitching, and a ball that has more juice than an orange.

Not exactly what I'd call "great."

But that goes for **anyone** hitting in the modern era.

[grbh]

Doesn't some of what has happened need to be credited to the hitters. The fact is guys like Bonds, Sosa, etc. Are stronger and in far better condition than their predecessors.

They thake care of their bodies better, etc.

I think that has a much to do with the inflated stats as smaller ballparks, pitching, or a juiced ball.


And to not call Bonds great is ridiculous. He was one of the top players in the league even before the ballpark, pitching, juiced ball issues were concerned.

[reeds]

although what you say is true Bayliss- to not say Bonds is awsome is really a joke. I dont care is the ballparks are a bit smaller, the pitching a bit worse and the ball a bit more lively- the man can flat out hit- with power and average. He will go out as one of the best EVER....yes EVER

[Bayliss]

Well let me ask you this:

Who is the greatest homerun hitter of all time?

[grbh]

But that is just it. Bonds is mouch more than a home run hitter. Always has been.

He has or will:
Steal 500 bases
Win a lot of Gold Gloves
500 Doubles
Possibly 3000 hits
A .422 on Base Average
Very few strikouts for a guy with power.
2000 Walks.
A slugging % close to .600
3 MVPs
Hit 700 Home Runs. Even if you believe the ball is juiced he would have hit 500.

Remember Bonds isn't Mcguire, he has stolen bases, hit for a solid average, won Gold Gloves, not struck out much.

The man is a terrrific player and to say otherwise is just foolish.

First ballot hall of Famer without question.

[Bayliss]

I know he's not just a homerun hitter. And yeah he will be a hall of famer.

But you still did not answer my question:

Who is the greatest homerun hitter of all time?

[grbh]

Answer: Babe Ruth

If today I had to choose between the two players I choose Bonds, unless I can convince Ruth to pitch and hit.

And who cares who is the greatest home run hitter of all time.

To me the more important question is who is the greatest baseball player of all time.

[Bayliss]

Personally I'd choose Ted. Had over 500 homeruns while still losing 4-5 years of his prime.

And for greatest of all time.... Hornsby would be mine.

[reeds]

I would say the Babe. In his day- Not many home-runs were hit at all. In fact- he had more home runs than some TEAMS did a few years. If you look at it that way- his 714 homers is that much more incredible

[Epitome22]

That's a tough question. There are just too many. I'll go with Mcgwire.

And Yes Barry Bonds is supurb. He'll be the first of a handful of players who will reach 700 homers for their careers. Sosa and Griffey come to mind.

[SeomanSnowlock]

Babe Ruth hit in smaller ball parks going against even worse pitching than what today's players go against.
He played in Yankee Stadium hitting to a right field fence that wasn't even 300 ft.

Hank Greenberg was a better homerun hitter than Babe Ruth

[SeomanSnowlock]

Babe's first few years, there weren't many homeruns hit because they had just moved out of the dead ball era. However, when Babe picked up his home runs, many others quickly followed.

Babe changed the game but he was basically hitting home runs to a right field porch that wasn't much deeper than a little league park.

[The Crippler]

the ballparks may actually be smaller in total square feet today, but the old ballparks were a lot of time much easier to hit it out. Sure, Old Yankee stadium had a giant Outfield in left-center, right-center, and straight away center, but the rightfield line that Babe and Gehrig were shooting at was only 295ft away, while the leftfield line was at 281ft! Then there were places such as the Polo Grounds were Mel Ott hit the majority of his 500+ HRs which had the leftfield lines at 270ft. In the "shot heard round the world", Bobby Thompson actually only hit the ball about 290, but it got out b/c of the short porch in Left.

There are numerous examples...The Baker Bowl (Phillies), was only 281 down the right field line and 300 to the power alley in right-center. Hell, I could hit one out there. Ebbetts was 296 down the line and 350 to the alley in right. League Park (Indians), was 290 down the line and 310 to the alley with a 45 foot wall... You telling me that Bonds wouldn't dominate there?? Right now, his home park is 307 down the line and 390 to the alley with a 25 foot wall.

I hate the argument that the parks are smaller, if you can't tell. The reason for the higher #s is that players are bigger and stronger b/c they are working out all year.

I also don't really like the pitching is watered down argument b/c of expansion...Remember, there were no Black or foreign players(dominican, japanese, etc.) when the Babe and Hornsby were playing. If they were alowed to play, Babe wouldn't have 700+, and that's a fact.

[SeomanSnowlock]

I agree The Crippler. Pitching IS better today. It might not seem like it because the hitters are also so much better. The smaller parks of today argument is a tiresome and uninformed opinion.

[grbh]

Nice post Crippler. To me the change in the game comes down to this.

Being able to bench press a car will help a player hit a ball farther.

Being able to bench press a car doesn't really help a pitchers velocity.

[Bayliss]

<< There are numerous examples...The Baker Bowl (Phillies), was only 281 down the right field line and 300 to the power alley in right-center. Hell, I could hit one out there. Ebbetts was 296 down the line and 350 to the alley in right. League Park (Indians), was 290 down the line and 310 to the alley with a 45 foot wall... You telling me that Bonds wouldn't dominate there?? Right now, his home park is 307 down the line and 390 to the alley with a 25 foot wall. >>



Yes I'm telling you Bonds wouldn't dominate there. Why? Because even though the ballpark dimensions are similar in those equations you are still not factoring in the two most critical factors of all:

1) Most number 1 pitchers today with the exception of a few would be number 3 and 4's on staffs back then. Half the starting pitchers today wouldn't even get a shot a back then. And to top it off... There was no such thing as a fifth starter. Not only are we dilluting the pool by having so many teams we are also stretching the pitching even thinner because of the extra rotation.

2) The ball itself. Um, even in the 80's it was hard to hit 50 homeruns. Now you have leadoff hitters hitting homeruns. Sure they added some muscle, but come on... that much muscle? I do not buy that at all. The ball is harder now than it ever was... and it flies further(farther?) now than it ever has. Bonds (and any good homerun hitters nowadays can hit a pop up and it goes out of the ball park. Back then a pop up would be just that. A pop up.

[SeomanSnowlock]

The dimensions in most parks in the 80's differs from now. Ballpark dimensions now more resemble those in the 20-40's.

Ballparks were built that were called Cookie-cutter parks. These parks were synonymous with the 60's, 70's and 80's. These parks didn't have the hitter friendly dimensions that parks from the 20's through 40's had and parks from the 90's to 00's. They had the typical 400 ft to center, 330 down each line, 375-385 to the gaps. At no time in baseball history other than the dead ball era have parks been less hitter friendly.


And to say that pitchers now would have been #3 and 4 starters back in the 20's - 40's, well, many teams didn't have #4 starters back then.
The competition was weak back then. Many teams that were fielded were more like minor league teams. And there were the 4-5 elite teams.
Competition was less then because the black athlete wasn't allowed to participate. Also, the hispanic athlete was yet to leave it's mark on MLB.

[reeds]

you guys are wacked if you think it was easier to hit home runs when Babe played vs now. Totally wacked..ill dig up some numbers to prove my point. It wont happen today or tommorrow- but i will dig them up.

[reeds]

This is the WHOLE decade of the 1920s. Look at the DIFFERENCE. These were the best homerun hitters in the game- and look at the DIFFERENCE!!!! Babe had 217 more in that ten year span than the NEXT best homerun hitter. That my friends, puts BABE in a class all by himself. And those numbers sure dont look like the ball was flying out of the park then!?!?! Babe averaged 46 a year- come on..he is the king...
HOMERUNS LEADERS--1920S
1 BABE RUTH 467
2 ROGERS HORNSBY 250
3 Cy Williams 202
4 KEN WILLIAMS 190
T5 LOU GEHRIG 146
T5 JIM BOTTOMLEY 146
T5 Bob Meusel 146
8 HARRY HEILMANN 142
9 HACK WILSON 137
10 George Kelly 134
11 Jack Fournier 121
12 AL SIMMONS 115
13 GOOSE GOSLIN 108
14 Irish Meusel 97
T15 Marty McManus 91
T15 George Harper 91
T17 CHICK HAFEY 85
T17 Bing Miller 85
T19 GABBY HARTNETT 81
T19 Zack Wheat 81
T19 Travis Jackson 81
All capital letters indicate a Baseball Immortal
Last updated--02/06/02

[reeds]

HOMERUN PERCENTAGE LEADERS--1920S
1 BABE RUTH 9.56
2 ROGERS HORNSBY 4.59
3 KEN WILLIAMS 4.33
4 Bob Meusel 2.90
5 HARRY HEILMANN 2.69
6 George Kelly 2.58
7 Marty McManus 1.96
8 TRIS SPEAKER 1.70
9 Jimmy Dykes 1.58
10 GEORGE SISLER 1.42
11 FRANKIE FRISCH 1.39
12 Curt Walker 1.28
13 Joe Judge 1.05
14 Charlie Grimm 0.98
15 Pie Traynor 0.90
16 Lu Blue 0.86
17 Max Carey 0.86
18 Joe Sewell 0.57
19 Sam Rice 0.42
20 Dave Bancroft 0.37
MORE PROOF.....

[SeomanSnowlock]

Babe Ruth was playing in a little league park. As a powerful left handed hitter in the 20's hitting in a little league park, he SHOULD have dominated the decade.

[SeomanSnowlock]

Babe Ruth changed the game. He changed the way people approached the game, the way players approached hitting, the way fans watched the game. However, Barry Bonds in the same park puts up very similar numbers in the 20's.

[reeds]

I agree Bonds puts up similar numbers- BONDS is awsome as well..BUT- Babe never trained with weights, never ran for exercise, stayed out all night and was a known party person. Had he kept himself fit- WHO knows the numbers he could have put up...

[SeomanSnowlock]

I agee, who knows?
However, I don't think we can take that into account.

Who knows what Jose Canseco would have done if he would have chosen to make baseball his first priority? You could say the same thing about Mickey Mantle.

You could say &quot;who knows&quot; what Ted Williams would have done if he wouldn't have missed around 4 years out of his prime while serving in the military.

[reeds]

I dont agree with the camparison to Jose Canseco. He was in top TOP shape- could run a 4.3 40 and was built like a truck- he did much time in the weight room...

[grbh]

The Who knows factor is exactly why baseball players are better now than years ago.


Had Babe stayed in the kind of shape Bonds is in who knows, has Mantle avoided the bottle like Bonds does who knows.



The fact remains Bonds at 37 is likely in better condition than most 23 year olds were during the 20s, 30s, 40s.

[SeomanSnowlock]

Being in the weight room equates to Canseco putting baseball first?

[TheKid]

The who knows argument is relevant. Because who knows what kind of numbers Babe could have put up if he did stay in shape and excercised and didn't party. However Seamon you're right, we don't know what he WOULD have done, but we DO know what he's done. He's the second all-time HR hitter today.

So while Mantle, Conseco basically partied and did things more along the lines of Babe Ruth, they weren't able to duplicate the numbers he put up. Players who have been on top of their game and stayed in shape and were students of the game weren't able to put up the numbers he's put up HR wise.

There's an argument for EVERY era as to why HR's were hit and are hit, but he bottom line is this, it's not an easy task. If that's the case then every team would have four and five guys who can hit the ball out. During those times, and even today, there are 2 hitters at most on a team who can hit alot of HR's on a consistent basis.

What makes players like Bonds, Ruth, McGwire, truly all the HR hitters special is they never get or got to see a bunch of good pitches after the word was out on them. Pitchers normally kept the ball away and try not to pitch to them. So where the normal batter may bat like 4 times a game and get maybe 12 pitches that he can get a good cut on, these players probably get about 3 pitches a game and they manage to hit HR's even though they infrequently get to see good pitches, that's impressive, doesn't matter HOW you look at it.

[reeds]

Seoman- NO, being in the weight room doesnt mean he put baseball first. BUT- it does mean that he took care of his body. That is much more than the BABE did. Babe was basically an out of shape slob and he still did what he did. Better than anyone else....that is incredible

[MFFL]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...e.4535903.html

Selig orders review of Bonds
Commissioner acts in wake of new steroid accusations
11:25 PM CST on Wednesday, March 8, 2006
By GERRY FRALEY / The Dallas Morning News

PHOENIX – Jarred by the most recent allegations against Barry Bonds, baseball commissioner Bud Selig has ordered a "review" of the San Francisco slugger.

Selig's unusual step comes in the wake of published excerpts from the book Game of Shadows. The book, to be released later this month, offers detailed descriptions of Bonds' use of performance-enhancing substances such as steroids and human growth hormone since 1998.

"I will review all the material that's relative in every way," Selig said Wednesday before a World Baseball Classic game at Chase Field. "And obviously, we've only seen parts of the things. ... We'll review everything there is to look at."

Four members of Selig's cabinet will be involved in the examination: MLB president and chief operating officer Bob DuPuy; executive vice president, baseball operations Jimmie Lee Solomon; executive vice president Tim Brosnan; and executive vice president, labor relations Rob Manfred.

Selig said he does not plan on meeting with Bonds, but that could change. Selig said he will have no additional comment until "an appropriate time." There is no timetable for the review, and Bonds can continue to play in the interim.

Bonds was not available for comment. He left San Francisco's spring training camp in nearby Scottsdale for what the club said was a custody hearing in Los Angeles.

The Giants said the hearing had been scheduled well in advance of spring training.

Bonds hit 73 homers in 2001 to establish a single-season record.

He ranks third on the all-time list with 708 homers.

"Given everything that's come out, I can't sit here and tell you, 'Well, that's fine,' " said Selig, the first commissioner to work out a drug-testing plan with the players' union. "I believe I would do this on every subject that I felt in any way involves the game, and that's what I'm doing."

[Drbio]

Bonds is toast. The truth will come out in time. He should just own up to it and get in front of the wave of bad press that is coming.

[dalmations202]

Bonds will only quit after he passes Babe Ruth, or when MLB says "goodbye", whichever comes first. He has stated so before, and I still believe that he doesn't care about Aaron, just the Babe.

Too bad that he had to cheat in order to compete.

[AnMan21]

i'm thinking about getting on some HGH to beef up for the company softball season. gotta bring the heat if we want to repeat as Coed D-League Champions!

[orangedays]

Barry Bonds Took Steroids, Reports Everyone Who Has Ever Watched Baseball (Linkage)
March 9, 2006 | Issue 42•10



SAN FRANCISCO—With the publication of a book detailing steroid use by San Francisco Giants superstar Barry Bonds, two San Francisco Chronicle reporters have corroborated the claims of Bonds' steroid abuse made by every single person who has watched or even loosely followed the game of baseball over the past five years.

In Game Of Shadows, an excerpt of which appeared in Sports Illustrated Wednesday, authors Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams claim that more than a dozen people close to Bonds had either been directly informed that Bonds was using banned substances or had in fact seen him taking the drugs with their own eyes. In addition to those witnesses, nearly 250 million other individuals nationwide had instantly realized that Bonds was using banned substances after observing his transformation from lanky speedster to hulking behemoth with their own eyes.

According to hundreds of thousands of reports coming out of every city in the U.S., Bonds' steroid use has been widely reported and well-documented for years, with sports columnists, bloggers, people attending baseball games, memorabilia collectors, major ballpark popcorn and peanut vendors, groundskeepers, roommates, significant others, fathers-in-law, next-door neighbors, fellow fitness club members, bartenders, mailmen, coworkers, teachers, doormen, parking-lot attendants, fellow elevator passengers, Home Depot clerks, servicemen and women serving in Iraq, former baseball players, Congressmen, second-tier stand-up comics, Sports Illustrated's Rick Reilly, and random passersby all having stated at some point in the last five years that Bonds was obviously taking some sort of performance-enhancing drugs.

Many of those eyewitnesses came forward following Wednesday's revelation with their own accounts of Bonds' seven-year history of steroid use.

"I originally heard that Barry Bonds was on steroids during a Giants game in 2001, when my buddy Phil, who was on the couch next to me, said, 'Dude, that Barry Bonds guy is definitely on steroids,'" said Chicago resident Mitch Oliveras. "After 10 seconds of careful observation, and performing a brief comparison of Bonds' present neck width with that on Phil's old 1986 Bonds rookie card, I was convinced."

"I can see how some people might be shocked about Bonds' doping, but this has been an open secret for years among the people in my industry," said air-conditioner repairman Mike Damus. "I'm sure it's an even more widely known fact in baseball."

"Everyone in our front office has known about Bonds since the 2001 season," said San Francisco-area accounts-receivable secretary Mindy Harris of McCullers and Associates, Ltd. "People in our ninth-floor office, too, and all seven branch offices. None of us were sure exactly which kind of steroids he was on, but we were pretty sure it was the kind that causes you to gain 30 pounds of muscle in one offseason, get injured more easily, become slow-footed, shave your head to conceal your thinning hair, lash out at the media and fans, engage in violent and abrupt mood swings, grow taut tree-trunk-like neck muscles, expand your hatband by six inches, and hit 73 home runs in a single season."

"Come to think of it, we're all fairly certain he's on all of them," Harris added.

"My 6-year-old son and I bonded over our mutual agreement that Bonds was obviously juicing up," San Francisco-area construction worker Tom Frankel said. "I hope that, one day, little Davey will have kids of his own, and that they will be able to easily glean the knowledge that Bonds was a cheater just by looking at the remarkable shift in his year-by-year statistics on his Hall of Fame plaque."

In light of the most recent accusations, which echo what any idiot with a pair of eyes and even the most fundamental knowledge of how the human body works has made in recent years, MLB Commissioner Bud Selig issued a statement Wednesday to address the issue.

"It is unfair to judge Mr. Bonds based solely on the fact that everyone says he has taken some sort of performance-enhancing drug for the past five years," Selig said. "I myself think Bonds has been taking steroids—I'm not blind, after all—but nothing, even an admission by Bonds himself, can conclusively prove that he took steroids, as he has not tested positively in an MLB-sanctioned drug test. Unless that is somehow made to happen, we must all accept his recent unfathomable accomplishments as one of the truly exciting and continuing storylines of this great sport."

When reached for comment, Bonds insisted that he "[doesn't] have time to deal with all these charges."

"I'm not going to respond to these 228 million allegations," Bonds said. "I don't care what every last person in the entire world thinks. As long as my fans believe me, that's the most important thing."

[orangedays]

And geez, can anyone shed some light on what the hell happened with "reeds" and "Epitome22"? It looks like they were the losers in some sort of bad-rep gang war.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by SeomanSnowlock

The dimensions in most parks in the 80's differs from now. Ballpark dimensions now more resemble those in the 20-40's.

Ballparks were built that were called Cookie-cutter parks. These parks were synonymous with the 60's, 70's and 80's. These parks didn't have the hitter friendly dimensions that parks from the 20's through 40's had and parks from the 90's to 00's. They had the typical 400 ft to center, 330 down each line, 375-385 to the gaps. At no time in baseball history other than the dead ball era have parks been less hitter friendly.


And to say that pitchers now would have been #3 and 4 starters back in the 20's - 40's, well, many teams didn't have #4 starters back then.
The competition was weak back then. Many teams that were fielded were more like minor league teams. And there were the 4-5 elite teams.
Competition was less then because the black athlete wasn't allowed to participate. Also, the hispanic athlete was yet to leave it's mark on MLB.

Damn fine post....

[sixeightmkw]

So I hear MLB is going to launch an investigation on Bonds and announce it today.

[sixeightmkw]

03/30/2006 1:20 AM ET
Report: MLB to probe past steroid use

According to a report on ESPN, Major League Baseball will launch an investigation into past use of performance-enhancing drugs and former U.S. Senate majority leader George Mitchell will be part of the group heading the independent investigation.
A formal announcement has not been made but The Associated Press reported the league was expected to do so later this week. The New York Times also reported in Wednesday's editions that Commissioner Bud Selig was on the verge on announcing the investigation.

The investigation has been spurred by recent allegations made in a book that targets Giants slugger Barry Bonds. The book, entitled "Game of Shadows," alleges that Bonds used performance-enhancing drugs, beginning in 1998 for a five-year period, which includes his record-breaking 73-home run, 2001 season.

Bonds has been the focal point of the controversy since leaked grand jury testimony linked him to steroid use. Bonds will resume his chase of the all-time career homer record when the Giants open the season against the Padres in San Diego on Monday. Bonds, at 708, is six homers in arrears of Babe Ruth and 47 behind Hank Aaron, the all-time leader with 755.

ESPN reported that Bonds and any current player who may be part of the investigation -- the Yankees' Gary Sheffield and Jason Giambi were both linked to the alleged steroid use in the book -- will be allowed to play while the probe is underway.

MLB did not have random testing for steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs prior to 2003, though Selig circulated memos during the 1990s stating that the use of those drugs by players was strictly prohibited and could be cause for discipline. The players association would not collectively bargain the issue at the time.

Don Fehr, the executive director of the union, said on Monday that under those terms, players could only be tested and penalized when MLB officials had "just cause" to believe any Major Leaguer was doing such drugs. MLB never announced player penalties then and have not reported that either Bonds, Giambi or Sheffield have failed a drug test since the twice re-written MLB drug policy went into effect four years ago.

What discipline Selig can hand out after the investigation is complete is a matter of conjecture. The union has a representational obligation to any of the players involved, Fehr said.

"I hope nobody is making judgments about the inquiry before it's done," said Fehr, who met with Bonds at his Scottsdale Stadium locker for 20 minutes on Monday after the union's annual spring session with the Giants players. "Bud will make whatever decision Bud makes and we'll go from there."

The book, which was written by a pair of San Francisco Chronicle reporters who covered the federal investigation into the Bay Area Laboratory Cooperative (BALCO), says Bonds used a host of steroid-based drugs to improve his strength, play and recovery time from injuries.

The authors say Sheffield and Giambi were also extensive steroid users and link the pair to Bonds and his personal trainer, Greg Anderson, who was indicted in the BALCO case, pled guilty to reduced charges, and was sentenced to jail time. Victor Conte, the president of the now defunct company, also pled to lesser charges and is currently serving a four-month prison sentence.

Earlier this month, when excerpts of the book were published in Sports Illustrated, Selig said he would review all the pertinent information pertaining to Bonds' alleged steroid use and reserve comment about it. He has been under increased pressure from Congressional leaders and the media to open an investigation into just what happened in the Major Leagues during that era, which began in 1998 when Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa chased and broke Roger Maris' single-season, 37-year-old home run record of 61.

Bonds missed all but 14 games of the 2005 season after having surgery three times on his right knee. Bonds returned on Sept. 12 and hit five homers in his first 36 at bats.

He has hit four more this spring in 16 at bats and batted .625. Though Bonds has not played since Friday because of inflammation in his left elbow, he's expected to be back in the lineup on Thursday night when the Giants play an exhibition game against the Los Angeles Angels at San Francisco's newly-christened AT&T Park.

[FineCubanCigar]

Barry Bond is the BEST baseball player ever *(not really though, today's dope scientest are just better).