Quick Thing to Consider on JJB/Roddy War: NOT A HATE THREAD!!! - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ReDirkulous Tyme · 02-26-2010, 01:39 AM

I don't know if I'm the only one to think about this, but has anyone else followed Brandon Jennings season, after the fantastic first month? I just saw a stat on espn that said something like he started averaging 21 points, then dipped to 19ppg, then 13ppg, now 11ppg, and it continues to drop. I'm curious if possibly Carlisle is biding his time with Roddy until about 2 weeks before the playoffs. Obviously this presents gelling issues, and makes it very difficult to have a smooth flowing offense come playoff time, but maybe this is the reason for the sporadic playing time that Roddy has been getting. Does it not seem to everyone else that he seems to get benched shortly after having big games? To me, its possibly something to consider that maybe Carlisle is just trying to wait, and get Roddy playing time when he thinks people won't take too much into consideration.

I may be completely batshit crazy, but this idea just popped into my head, and I thought I might get ya'll's opinion. Yes, there are problems with the theory, its by no means perfect. But I don't think the issues are so big that it can't be accomplished.

Feel free to post CONSTRUCTIVE criticism/comments

mavsfan1000 · 02-26-2010, 01:49 AM

I think Rookies can hit the wall if played too many minutes. Roddy is far from playing those kind of minutes though. I think the same could be said for players that don't play enough minutes. They lose their rhythm and confidence.

mavs777 · 02-26-2010, 02:03 AM

As much as I like Roddy and think he is better than JJB, it is clear that at this stage in his career he is an offensive two. He doesn't have the PG instincts and doesn't have a great court feel. He is a much better player just as a catch and shoot guy off the ball

Rick Carlisle · 02-26-2010, 02:11 AM

Why, I've never heard such a crazy idea in my life wink wink.

mavsfan1000 · 02-26-2010, 02:15 AM

I agree. His strength is catch and shoot (or slash) and pressuring defenders into bad shots. He tries to do too much with the ball because he is capable of scoring that way. He needs to stay away from the flashy plays I think. He is not a perfect player like I mentioned but it's not like we have any choice. We lack a second point guard after Kidd and Terry hasn't played point guard in years.

nowhereman · 02-26-2010, 02:19 AM

If our secret weapon is a French rookie point guard that barely speaks english and has ball handling issues and is getting very little PT... then we're boned.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 02-26-2010, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

If our secret weapon is a French rookie point guard that barely speaks english and has ball handling issues and is getting very little PT... then we're boned.

not a secret weapon, just a possible factor instead of a non-factor. I think he has the potential to bring the injury that can be game changing, depending on the situation and his production when that time of the year comes around. I am firm in my belief that RC is by no means crazy, and I am positive he is far more aware of Roddy's talent/potential/skill than any of us here are.

There IS a method to the madness

nowhereman · 02-26-2010, 02:34 AM

Over the course of a series, the coach may well make the adjustment to throw in Roddy and try to muck things up a bit, so I wouldn't be too surprised if there was a game or two where he was a difference maker. That might be along the same lines as what Devin did in '06 against the Spurs... although there was good reason to have foreseen that because of Devin's awesome game against the Spurs earlier that season in November 2005.

I think a player like Roddy would be most effective when the scouting report isn't out on him. That way he might catch somebody off guard. I don't think coaches intentionally play it out that way, especially some of the disciplinarian/hard headed coaches (which has generally been Rick's reputation, but not with the Mavs)... but it happens kinda often that a player is most effective when he comes out of nowhere. Jennings earlier this year as you provided is a good example, Tyrus Thomas and JJB in the first round last year were other ones.

So no, I don't think Rick is doing anything by design, but I wouldn't be shocked that in the course of making adjustments for a series, Roddy is able to be a difference maker in a game or two because the scouting report isn't out on him yet.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 02-26-2010, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Over the course of a series, the coach may well make the adjustment to throw in Roddy and try to muck things up a bit, so I wouldn't be too surprised if there was a game or two where he was a difference maker. That might be along the same lines as what Devin did in '06 against the Spurs... although there was good reason to have foreseen that because of Devin's awesome game against the Spurs earlier that season in November 2005.

I think a player like Roddy would be most effective when the scouting report isn't out on him. That way he might catch somebody off guard. I don't think coaches intentionally play it out that way, especially some of the disciplinarian/hard headed coaches (which has generally been Rick's reputation, but not with the Mavs)... but it happens kinda often that a player is most effective when he comes out of nowhere. Jennings earlier this year as you provided is a good example, Tyrus Thomas and JJB in the first round last year were other ones.

So no, I don't think Rick is doing anything by design, but I wouldn't be shocked that in the course of making adjustments for a series, Roddy is able to be a difference maker in a game or two because the scouting report isn't out on him yet.

So we're saying exactly the same thing, aside from the fact that I believe RC may be doing this intentionally. Like I said, it may be a bit far fetched, but having had a good time to observe the overall decision making and creativity that Carlisle's brought to the table, I think its a possibility, albeit a small one.

Dirkenstien · 02-26-2010, 09:20 AM

I think the problem is at this point Roddy is more comfortable as a score first PG but he's being pressured to be a pass first and it's taking him of his game.

If Carlisle would give him the green light on offense (when Dirk is sitting) it would start drawing more attention to him and start opening up plays for other guys in the natural flow of the game, as opposed to trying to force it the way he's doing now.

dude1394 · 02-26-2010, 10:03 AM

What the brandon jennings info shows is that once rooks get scouted and paid attention to, their flash becomes a little (or in jennings case a lot ) less flashy. Rooks are rooks and sometimes they can overcome it but not usually.

Roddy continues to be a talent but if jjb were not stinkin it up, he'd never see the floor as point in any game that mattered.

jacktruth · 02-26-2010, 10:08 AM

I think Roddy is overrated. He's a situational player that can do something really special in that situation. But if he's the primary ball-handler, he has to use great plays to makeup for bone-headed plays.

He just doesn't have the understanding required for this team. I don't think it's a secret weapon thing. I think if Carlisle was going to use a secret weapon, it would have been in the Jan-Feb sucking streak that this team went through.

JJB isn't great but that's mostly because of his size. He doesn't turn the ball over and can run the offense. That's why he'll get more playing time in the playoffs.

mavErika · 02-26-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

I don't know if I'm the only one to think about this, but has anyone else followed Brandon Jennings season, after the fantastic first month? I just saw a stat on espn that said something like he started averaging 21 points, then dipped to 19ppg, then 13ppg, now 11ppg, and it continues to drop. I'm curious if possibly Carlisle is biding his time with Roddy until about 2 weeks before the playoffs. Obviously this presents gelling issues, and makes it very difficult to have a smooth flowing offense come playoff time, but maybe this is the reason for the sporadic playing time that Roddy has been getting. Does it not seem to everyone else that he seems to get benched shortly after having big games? To me, its possibly something to consider that maybe Carlisle is just trying to wait, and get Roddy playing time when he thinks people won't take too much into consideration.

I may be completely batshit crazy, but this idea just popped into my head, and I thought I might get ya'll's opinion. Yes, there are problems with the theory, its by no means perfect. But I don't think the issues are so big that it can't be accomplished.

Feel free to post CONSTRUCTIVE criticism/comments

I don't know how realistic that is, but I think someone on the board wrote that Carlisle used Prince as a rookie in Detroit in a similiar way. I didn't care about the NBA at that time, so I really don't know.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 02-26-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavErika

I don't know how realistic that is, but I think someone on the board wrote that Carlisle used Prince as a rookie in Detroit in a similiar way. I didn't care about the NBA at that time, so I really don't know.

Well if you read closely, I stated that I don't think it is realistic, in fact its most likely unrealistic. However, I think there's the possibility that this might be the case.

SMC0007 · 02-26-2010, 04:35 PM

Jennings play on the Bucks. There really isn't a lot of help so it's easier to key in on this guy. Aside from him getting the ball to Bogut, what else does the defense have to worry about?

ReDirkulous Tyme · 02-26-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Jennings play on the Bucks. There really isn't a lot of help so it's easier to key in on this guy. Aside from him getting the ball to Bogut, what else does the defense have to worry about?

Good point, but the issue resides in the problem that Carlisle may believe will arise if teams even begin to key in on Roddy. Albeit very exciting to watch, and amazingly talented and athletic, Roddy has seemed mistake prone. Whether it be turnovers, botched defensive assignment, or general rookie mistakes, Roddy has shown that he is, by no means, immune to these common rookie issues.

Will he make up for his mistakes with some spectacular plays completely based on athleticism/talent? More than likely. However, he will make these mistakes, and Carlisle may not feel the lest of the league should have any chance to really prepare for him.

SMC0007 · 02-26-2010, 05:53 PM

true dat