frustrations - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ocelot_ark · 12-31-2002, 10:51 AM

Here's a bit of a list of things that I see happening that are frustrating the hell out of me:

1. Nelson's coaching. I have said it before, but I don't think he will win us the championship. We lost games 3 times this month after leading by double digits. That is inexcusable to me. You would think that after the Laker catastrophe he would have learned something. Nope. We get a big lead and try to slow it down. Of course, the lead inevitably vanishes. A lot of this has to do with his rotations. Never...I repeat...NEVER, should Nash and NVE see the court at the same time. EVER! Why? Forget the defensive liabilities it causes. It stagnates the OFFENSE. When NVE is in the game he has to have the ball in his hands or he's not going to produce. You very seldom see him coming off picks for a jumper, or setting picks for his roommates. When Nick is in the game it's his mission to be a scorer first. Of course, all of that scoring takes place for the elbow-extended when he gets a Nowitzki screen. It defeats the purpose of having them both on the court if you are not going to capitalize on it with some type of motion on offense. With two all-star calibre PGs in the game, you'd think backdoor cuts and screen and rolls (not pops) would be something that would be successful. Until that happens, however, Nellie needs to stick to a more conventional lineup. Our scoring is not going to deviate if we ONLY have Nash, Fin, Dirk as the offensive threats. Of Course, whatever MIGHT be lost in offense is definitely compensated for defensively when Bell/Griff get more time.

2. Nash's over penetration. Here lately it seems that Nash is more determined to get to the line than any maverick. Of course, the problem with that is the refs, for whatever reason, don't give him the benefit of any doubt. Steve's attempt is a good one, but he needs to give it up. Continue to break down the other team on the dribble. Go ahead and take it to the hole. BUT, when you get there kick it to the corner man for three. Which brings me to....

3. Three's. When we were turning things around back in 2000/2001 a main staple of our offense was the three pointer. Obviously it still is. I just see a marked difference in how we're taking our three's. I believe the most effective way for this team to capitalize on it's 23-footers is to have all, or atleast the majority of them, come as a result of penetration (read Nash/NVE). Heck, Dirk commands so much respect in the post (more to come on that) that he is starting to get Duncan like double teams...resulting in wide open shots on the perimeter.

4. Finley. I'm sorry, Finley will always be THE Mavericks to me, but he's simply not what he used to be. I sincerely doubt there's another SG in the league who gets consistently BURNED more than Fin. He is a PATHETIC defender. IF he was making an effort to do the other things defensively, namely taking charges, I wouldn't bash him as hard. I just see no pride by Fin in his defense. None. Since I bashed him so hard on his D I won't comment on his poor offensive decision making.

5. Dirk in the post. Dirk has GOT to get the ball in the post atleast 3 times as much as he's getting it now. That facet of his game is developing, and I can see it saving our asses in the playoffs if Nellie will ever realize as much. My problem with Dirk in the post is this: When he gets a mismatch with someone like Michael Redd guarding him in the post, he needs to STOP SHOOTING THE FADE-A-WAY. Dirk, the midgets aren't going to block your shot. They can not match your strength. Back them in or spin baseling for a layup/dunk. Don't get me wrong, the fade-a-way is money, but when your that much bigger than your defender, he's got to take it strong.

6. MORE Nellie's coaching. I called the play to Finley at the end of the game last night. My words, "Hay Calvin, watch this. Even though Dirk is on fire, and pretty much unstoppable tonight, I guarantee you this play will be run for Finley. Guarantee it." Unfortunately I was right. Sometimes I get the feeling that Nelson was lying when he said Dirk is our best player. His actions dicate that, come crunch time, it's Nash, Fin, NVE, THEN Dirk. I can remember ONE time in the last two years when Dirk's been given the ball when we HAD to have a basket to win/tie. Last year in the close game against Denver at the AAC. Dirk gets ball, Dirk score ball. Mavs win. Memorize that Nellie. Dirk gets ball, Dirk score ball. Mavs win.

kg_veteran · 12-31-2002, 11:11 AM

Great post, and I pretty much agree with everything you said. In particular...

5. Dirk in the post. Dirk has GOT to get the ball in the post atleast 3 times as much as he's getting it now. That facet of his game is developing, and I can see it saving our asses in the playoffs if Nellie will ever realize as much...

With the offensive skills Dirk possesses, there's no reason to think he can't become completely dominant in the post. He's already got a good enough post game that teams consistently double him on the block, and he's already pretty proficient at scoring with his back to the basket. The only way for him to truly take the next step and become a dominant post player, however, is repetition.

Also, Dirk has shown that he has the ability to pass well out of the post, so the argument that the offense would stagnate is a silly one. And even if the Mavs score fewer points, give me a team averaging 98-100 ppg that is ready for playoff basketball any day over a team averaging 105 ppg that isn't.

... My problem with Dirk in the post is this: When he gets a mismatch with someone like Michael Redd guarding him in the post, he needs to STOP SHOOTING THE FADE-A-WAY. Dirk, the midgets aren't going to block your shot. They can not match your strength. Back them in or spin baseling for a layup/dunk. Don't get me wrong, the fade-a-way is money, but when your that much bigger than your defender, he's got to take it strong.

This is something I think Dirk would learn with repetition, and it's really the only problem I have with his post game. The only time Dirk or any other player should shoot a fadeaway (are you listening, Mike?) is when they're being guarded by a player who has the capability to block their shot.

Dooby · 12-31-2002, 11:26 AM

You are pretty much 100% right. But we are forced to see NVE and Nash on the court at the same time as long as Najera and Walt are out. It sucks, but we have no small forwards or backup shooting guards.

Chiwas · 12-31-2002, 11:45 AM

Ocelot, I'm glad that you write this kind of post. It seems lately that isn't allowed that we write about frustrations and critics. In a forum! LOL.

Besides, I agree with your comments.

OutletPass · 12-31-2002, 12:03 PM

Think you've just pointed out a lot of things that are part of the transition that the Mavs are going to have to make. I love our regular season game, but to get the ring...certain things are going to have to change and be improved.

Let's not be afraid of change that makes the Mavs better in the playoffs. We don't need to tear the team apart...we need to have certain roles redefined and improved...and I know that they have the talent and determination to do it. In the end, Nellie's going to have to commit to it.

I don't want to rip anyone, there's too much of that going on, but don't we all know, in our hearts, that the team has to redefine itself in order to win in the playoffs.

dude1394 · 12-31-2002, 12:13 PM

Good post, I only have a few comments that I wanted to make. I'm not sure about nellies coaching, I think we are all back-seat drivers and see a lot of the negative and don't see enough of the positive. He drives me nuts sometimes, but until he has a team that can compete for the title (he does NOW) then I'm not going to rag him until I see what he can do.

<< 2. Nash's over penetration. Here lately it seems that Nash is more determined to get to the line than any maverick. Of course, the problem with that is the refs, for whatever reason, don't give him the benefit of any doubt. Steve's attempt is a good one, but he needs to give it up. Continue to break down the other team on the dribble. Go ahead and take it to the hole. BUT, when you get there kick it to the corner man for three. Which brings me to.... >>

I'm wondering if our woeful 3pt shooting isn't exacerbating this. I think nash really doesn't care about points for himself at all, he really just wants to win. But with Walt/Finley/Nick shooting horrificaly from 3pt land and dirk getting picked up at half-court he doesn't have a lot of options right now. I would like to see finley/nick take a few steps in an make a 2pointer myself, like raja did last night.

<< 4. Finley. I'm sorry, Finley will always be THE Mavericks to me, but he's simply not what he used to be. I sincerely doubt there's another SG in the league who gets consistently BURNED more than Fin. He is a PATHETIC defender. IF he was making an effort to do the other things defensively, namely taking charges, I wouldn't bash him as hard. I just see no pride by Fin in his defense. None. Since I bashed him so hard on his D I won't comment on his poor offensive decision making. >>

Agreed. but one thing he did do OFFENSIVELY was try to get to the paint. I'm ok with fin taking a shot from the key in, he's really,really deadly that way. Even last nights shot was going to be around a 5 footer or so it wasn't knocked away, but we all know about his handles so that kind of stuff will happen. If we had a real 3pt SG specialist that played D we would probably see a lot less of finley this year.

<<
5. Dirk in the post. Dirk has GOT to get the ball in the post atleast 3 times as much as he's getting it now. That facet of his game is developing, and I can see it saving our asses in the playoffs if Nellie will ever realize as much. My problem with Dirk in the post is this: When he gets a mismatch with someone like Michael Redd guarding him in the post, he needs to STOP SHOOTING THE FADE-A-WAY. Dirk, the midgets aren't going to block your shot. They can not match your strength. Back them in or spin baseling for a layup/dunk. Don't get me wrong, the fade-a-way is money, but when your that much bigger than your defender, he's got to take it strong. >>

Here is where I differ with you a little bit. We are getting dirk to the post in high pick and rolls. He's not posting up low in the blocks where a move to the basket has you right there. He's usually starting out 10-12 feet and it's much tougher to get all of the way to the rim in that position. A 8 foot fadeaway for dirk is higher than 50% shot and we should be ok with that. If you notice he rarely makes it to the basket even when he tries as the other team is determined to bash him good. So I think your expectation on this is a little unreasonable.

Nash13 · 12-31-2002, 12:32 PM

I don't think everybody should panic everytime we lose

kg_veteran · 12-31-2002, 12:38 PM

I don't want to rip anyone, there's too much of that going on, but don't we all know, in our hearts, that the team has to redefine itself in order to win in the playoffs.

Truer words were never spoken.

Chiwas · 12-31-2002, 01:07 PM

<< I don't think everybody should panic everytime we lose >>

It's part of the emotion; it´s part of the game. Besides, we can't change a bit the team with our comments, but we can free our necessity to express our thoughts and feelings. "After the storm, the calm returns" (or something like that).

ocelot_ark · 12-31-2002, 01:39 PM

Just wanted to clarify something: This is not something that occurred to me last night, watching us lose to a mediocre team. I've had many of these feelings for about 2 years, and I've stated as such.

ocelot_ark · 12-31-2002, 01:44 PM

Dude,
I pretty much agree with all you said. I never thought about the 3pt shooting that way. It could very well be that Nash just doesn't have confidence in Nick/Fin right now, so he's trying to do it himself. I just hope that's NOT the case. I just think of all the guys on the team, Nash is probably to shun someone for weak play. He knows first hand that it takes shots, preferably open ones, to come out of a funk.

As far as Dirk posting up. I agree that he's not getting it directly in the post. He's getting pushed out to 12ft by opposing GUARDS. Well, I shouldn't say pushed out...it probably that Dirk is just more comfortable there. BUT...that needs to change, specifically when he has the heighth and weight advantage. I can definitely understand posting up an athletic forward or center that far away from the basket, it gives him room to create. He just needs to recognize the guard/forward mismatch as a time to set up directly on the box. Settle for nothing less, Dirk!

COOLJAZZ · 12-31-2002, 01:48 PM

ocelot_ark,

This is a no-frills thread. Straight to the point. And hard to argue with.

Add one more point. Raef is playing bad and thus is overpaid. We could've signed Shard and possibly had KT in a trade.

Let me temper all the frustration with this, our record: 25-5.

That is excellent.

ocelot_ark · 12-31-2002, 01:52 PM

I don't really want to get into what could have been, or should have been had we made this/that move in the offseason (If I wanted to do that I'd point to Donyell Marshall). My concern is over how we can make this team better with the pieces we have now.

dude1394 · 12-31-2002, 02:01 PM

<< Dude,
I pretty much agree with all you said. I never thought about the 3pt shooting that way. It could very well be that Nash just doesn't have confidence in Nick/Fin right now, so he's trying to do it himself. I just hope that's NOT the case. I just think of all the guys on the team, Nash is probably to shun someone for weak play. He knows first hand that it takes shots, preferably open ones, to come out of a funk. >>

I don't think I have a problem with steve taking this tack. I don't think he is doing it to shun anyone particularly but just trying to do his best win games during this shooting slump. I'm sure that as soon as the shots start falling again he will make the right decisions.

<< As far as Dirk posting up. I agree that he's not getting it directly in the post. He's getting pushed out to 12ft by opposing GUARDS. Well, I shouldn't say pushed out...it probably that Dirk is just more comfortable there. BUT...that needs to change, specifically when he has the heighth and weight advantage. I can definitely understand posting up an athletic forward or center that far away from the basket, it gives him room to create. He just needs to recognize the guard/forward mismatch as a time to set up directly on the box. Settle for nothing less, Dirk! >>

But it's a high pick and roll. He's not getting pushed out there by guards, he's being pushed out there by power forwards AND the guards covering steve for example. He has to set the high pick on steve's guy to get the switch. Unless he starts posting low against power forwards I don't think he will get it that low.

Chiwas · 12-31-2002, 02:11 PM

<< Just wanted to clarify something: This is not something that occurred to me last night, watching us lose to a mediocre team. I've had many of these feelings for about 2 years, and I've stated as such. >>

I like very much to criticize my team; many times I feel the same that you, ocelot. However I'm not disappointed, not even a bit, with the 25-5, and I enjoy a lot when Kings, Lakers and Spurs also lose with mediocre teams.

ocelot_ark · 12-31-2002, 02:14 PM

But it's a high pick and roll. He's not getting pushed out there by guards, he's being pushed out there by power forwards AND the guards covering steve for example. He has to set the high pick on steve's guy to get the switch. Unless he starts posting low against power forwards I don't think he will get it that low.

Just because the switch happens out that high doesn't mean he has to get the ball that high. Instead of giving him the ball immediately, Nash can wait until Dirk backs down a bit (Refs are a bit mroe reluctanct to call offensive fouls if you are backing down a smaller guy without the ball) and then get him the ball.

Do you remember the one possession last night where Dirk just spun off of a Buck for a sweet finger roll at the rim? That's what I want to see more of...more stuff going towards the basket...or just a straight jump shot. There's no need for the fade-a-way against that small a player.

Murphy3 · 01-01-2003, 10:56 PM

dirk probably needs to stop shooting as many fadeaways as he does when posting up..but part of the problem is that he is pretty effective shooting it and it is a good look for him. but with repetition, he will take the ball more to the hole.

if the mavs want to win a title, dirk must be the clydesdale of the offense with much of that coming down on the low block. he has to be allowed, by nellie, to take that next step in his development. yes, he's almost there but even if he gets there, we might not know because the mavs so grossly underutilize him down on the low block

dude1394 · 01-01-2003, 11:36 PM

<< dirk probably needs to stop shooting as many fadeaways as he does when posting up..but part of the problem is that he is pretty effective shooting it and it is a good look for him. but with repetition, he will take the ball more to the hole.

if the mavs want to win a title, dirk must be the clydesdale of the offense with much of that coming down on the low block. he has to be allowed, by nellie, to take that next step in his development. yes, he's almost there but even if he gets there, we might not know because the mavs so grossly underutilize him down on the low block >>

Now you're putting him head to head with the likes of duncan and all of the other much stronger power forwards. If you are saying he needs to gain 30 pounds, quit running the floor then I'll give it to you. But one of his biggest advantages is his speed and agility, when he becomes a low-post banger, he's going to lose that. Dirk went the other way this year by LOSING weight to get faster in order to cover and be covered by 3's, not 4's.

ÜberDirk · 01-01-2003, 11:39 PM

"Now you're putting him head to head with the likes of duncan and all of the other much stronger power forwards. If you are saying he needs to gain 30 pounds, quit running the floor then I'll give it to you. But one of his biggest advantages is his speed and agility, when he becomes a low-post banger, he's going to lose that. Dirk went the other way this year by LOSING weight to get faster in order to cover and be covered by 3's, not 4's. "

Holger wants him to put on like 35 lbs. soon

Bayliss · 01-01-2003, 11:45 PM

<< Now you're putting him head to head with the likes of duncan and all of the other much stronger power forwards. If you are saying he needs to gain 30 pounds, quit running the floor then I'll give it to you. But one of his biggest advantages is his speed and agility, when he becomes a low-post banger, he's going to lose that. Dirk went the other way this year by LOSING weight to get faster in order to cover and be covered by 3's, not 4's. >>

There is absolutely no reason why Dirk can't succeed at the weight which he is at right now. The greatest low post player ever probably tipped the scales at about 240. And no one would call him a "banger."

Murphy3 · 01-01-2003, 11:51 PM

there is no reason why dirk can't be successful on the low block while continuing to be successful from the outside at or near the same weight he is at now... yes, more of the offense needs to run through him down low..not as much as tim duncan but much more than what is currently done

southern_sweets · 01-01-2003, 11:52 PM

While I think patience is the way to go right now, I am getting a little frustrated. The last loss was a little hard to take.
Just my 2 cents, but I think the greatest frustration is inconsistency. Many of our top players are showing way too much inconsistency...Nash, Fin, NVE and others. They all have the talent and show it with the great games they've had, but the reliability just isn't there. It's up and down, up and down. It's hard to watch a player you know could be playing so much better play a lousy game and the Mavs lose as a result. Maybe it's not one player in any given loss, but when two or three fail to step up we are in trouble. We have players that can make 3's, and yes defend...it's frustrating to watch them not play to their potential.

Murphy3 · 01-01-2003, 11:52 PM

from what i've heard/read, dirk didn't lose weight because of any reason such as the one you mentioned..he lost weight because of the grueling schedule in the summer playing several games over a very short period

Just211 · 01-01-2003, 11:58 PM

sweets, about players playing to their potential. Could you imagine Nellie shunning one of the big 3, or even NVE to the bench for not playing good Defense. He does this to every other player(LaFrntz, Bradley), except those four. Maybe they should be held acountable for their lack of effort on D. I know Nellie would get critized for leaving someone like FIN or Nash on the bench for say a whole half for lack of effort, but what better way to deliver a messsage.
Why should they take him serious about emphasis on D, when there is no punishment for poor play?

southern_sweets · 01-02-2003, 12:00 AM

I totally agree 211.

OutletPass · 01-02-2003, 12:19 AM

Holger wants him to put on like 35 lbs. soon

-- April Fools jokes are appropriate in April, UD, not January 1.

Please tell me that you're kidding !

MFFL · 01-02-2003, 12:20 AM

<< There is absolutely no reason why Dirk can't succeed at the weight which he is at right now. The greatest low post player ever probably tipped the scales at about 240. And no one would call him a "banger." >>

Kevin McHale tipped in at 210. And he was one of the best inside players in NBA history.

ÜberDirk · 01-02-2003, 02:16 AM

"-- April Fools jokes are appropriate in April, UD, not January 1.

Please tell me that you're kidding !"

Mabye it wasn't 35, but no, in not kidding. This was in a recent SI article on dirk and Mavs. Mabye it was 15 or 20 lbs. but he wants dirk to put it on over the next few years, of course this is added muscle he is talking about. He even had dirk wear this 25(?) lb. vest while practicing to prepare the body for the added weight to come.

"While I think patience is the way to go right now, I am getting a little frustrated. The last loss was a little hard to take.
Just my 2 cents, but I think the greatest frustration is inconsistency. Many of our top players are showing way too much inconsistency...Nash, Fin, NVE and others. They all have the talent and show it with the great games they've had, but the reliability just isn't there. It's up and down, up and down. It's hard to watch a player you know could be playing so much better play a lousy game and the Mavs lose as a result. Maybe it's not one player in any given loss, but when two or three fail to step up we are in trouble. We have players that can make 3's, and yes defend...it's frustrating to watch them not play to their potential."

Mabye this upsets you sweets, but it SHOULDN'T surprise you. Mike and mainly NVE have ALWAY'S been incredibley inconsistent player's!

LRB · 01-02-2003, 02:16 AM

<< Holger wants him to put on like 35 lbs. soon >>

Maybe we could hire Shaq's trainer. He seems pretty good at helping players gain 35 pounds. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

ÜberDirk · 01-02-2003, 02:56 AM

Mabye you could shut up! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

Sorry, couldn't resist [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

LRB · 01-02-2003, 03:17 AM

<< Sorry, couldn't resist >>

Awww. I see that you are a big fan of quoting Bill Clinton.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] On well, it's way past my bed time anyways. Good night.