Fire Carlisle? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tap2390 · 06-06-2021, 05:45 PM

Should we fire Carlisle after blowing a 2-0 lead?

Dallas41 · 06-06-2021, 05:48 PM

Without Dirk this guy would have no 1st round advances in his time in Dallas.

Jason Garrett got fired because he couldn't win playoff games

Doc Rivers got fired and he's had the same amount success if not more than RC

Terry Stotts got fired despite his success in Portland they just got tired of all the 1st round exits

Some guys just get a free pass based on what they've done years ago I guess (a Decade to TBH)

Julius · 06-06-2021, 05:48 PM

I dont care, better players would be nice

Dallas41 · 06-06-2021, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julius

I dont care, better players would be nice

That helps but I also think sometimes players just need to hear a different voice

Too many fans think just because you don't want RC anymore it means you think he's a bad coach.

I personally don't....

I don't like his small ball lineups but mostly I just think the Mavs need someone else voice to be heard

Julius · 06-06-2021, 06:23 PM

I dont care, aslong Luka is happy and better players. Thats a must

BPo001 · 06-06-2021, 06:24 PM

I think you give him 1 more year with a re-tooled roster. I don’t know that there are any better candidates out there to replace RC.

Julius · 06-06-2021, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julius

I dont care, aslong Luka is happy

Can I have that in the poll?

SMC0007 · 06-06-2021, 07:09 PM

Not happening!

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/st...762792450?s=19

Dallas41 · 06-06-2021, 07:34 PM

Lol

What could be clearly better than a guy going 0-6 in the 1st round since 2012?

BTW he also lost in the 1st round the year prior to winning the championship with a good roster

But somehow that always gets excluded.

So technically he's been bounced out the 1st round 7 out of his last 8 post season appearances as coach.

If Mike D'Antoni had just won one title with Nash here in Phoenix I can gurante you he still wouldn't have been around that long after winning if he proceeded to go 0-6 afterwards.

Sometimes players just respond better to a different voice even though the coach might not have been better than the previous coach

It happened with Nellie going to Avery...

Nellie was clearly the better coach but they started responding to Avery better

Some Guy · 06-06-2021, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Sometimes players just respond better to a different voice even though the coach might not have been better than the previous coach

It happened with Nellie going to Avery...

Nellie was clearly the better coach but they started responding to Avery better

For a little while. How long did Avery last? In other words, that's only a short term fix if you don't get the right coach - you could end up in far worse shape.

You do have to consider the roster - no coach is going to win a championship with a crappy team. The Mavs under Nellie, Portland these last few years, Clippers under Rivers -- all of them had much better talent (and therefore, expectations) than the Mavs since 2011.
Carlisle wasn't telling THJ to miss his shots today. Or for KP to miss all 5 3s he attempted.

It doesn't make much sense to say "these players are all trash and Carlisle needs to go because he couldn't beat a legit title contender with them". Unless you think he's the reason they are all trash, which is worth considering.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-06-2021, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Not happening!

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/st...762792450?s=19

I've really backed away from the fire Rick Carlisle talk, but this is just such bs. The Mavs had no idea who they were going to hire when they fired Avery Johnson. The idea that you can only replace your coach with someone much, much, much better is such poor thinking it almost boggles the mind.

The problem is not that Rick is a bad coach. He is a good one. We all know that by now. Sometimes you just need something different.

Some Guy · 06-06-2021, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I've really backed away from the fire Rick Carlisle talk, but this is just such bs. The Mavs had no idea who they were going to hire when they fired Avery Johnson. The idea that you can only replace your coach with someone much, much, much better is such poor thinking it almost boggles the mind.

The problem is not that Rick is a bad coach. He is a good one. We all know that by now. Sometimes you just need something different.

With Avery, they knew he was not good. That he was the problem.
I'm not sure if we know that about Rick.

Dallas41 · 06-06-2021, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I've really backed away from the fire Rick Carlisle talk, but this is just such bs. The Mavs had no idea who they were going to hire when they fired Avery Johnson. The idea that you can only replace your coach with someone much, much, much better is such poor thinking it almost boggles the mind.

The problem is not that Rick is a bad coach. He is a good one. We all know that by now. Sometimes you just need something different.

Yep that was exactly my point

Dude has been here for over a decade now....

Avery wasn't better than Nellie but again he jumped started that team ASAP and as much as people might not have liked Avery he did get to a Finals almost immediately and TBH he got robbed but not a lot of fans mention that.

Had Avery won that finals in 2006 and proceeded to get bounced out the 1st round for 6 straight years would he had even lasted that long?

I only recall Avery only losing once in the 1st round and that was to Nellie who basically knew the Mavs roster inside and out but he beat Pop's in a playoff matchup in a game 7 on the road with bigs like Dampier and Diop.

No one ever mentions Avery didn't have a lot of talent to coach beyond Dirk and Terry.

No one mentions how Avery kept the Mavs focused after falling behind to Houston in the series when most thought they were dead and won a game 7 that year as well in blowout fashion.

Jayinem · 06-07-2021, 11:04 AM

The MBT gives RC a pass because they screwed up every off-season trying to chase big fish, and when that fails they have to settle for whatever scraps are left. So they never blame RC for coming up short. Now we have what will be the best player in the league for the next decade so it's sad that they're going to keep letting that excuse fly and eventually if something doesn't give we will lose Luka.

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We are starting decade #2 of chasing big fish, they have to give that up or it will be the demise of the franchise.

Dirk should have proved to them that we don't need 3 superstars to win the title, but instead it made Cuban believe we're a destination franchise and we're absolutely not.

SMC0007 · 06-07-2021, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I've really backed away from the fire Rick Carlisle talk, but this is just such bs. The Mavs had no idea who they were going to hire when they fired Avery Johnson. The idea that you can only replace your coach with someone much, much, much better is such poor thinking it almost boggles the mind.

The problem is not that Rick is a bad coach. He is a good one. We all know that by now. Sometimes you just need something different.

His rotations and young player development are the 2 things I would change about him. I complain about that but I do realize that if he had legit talent we would have legit results.

If I were Cuban, it would absolutely be nut cutting time this offseason for MBT and next season would be nut cutting time for Rick. The water is far too muddied man, you have to get a better roster so you know what the coach can do (for me lately). I don't think this roster will get any better with a new voice. Maybe you milk more out of KP with a scheme change if a new coach came in, but it's not enough to win a series over contenders.

Dallas41 · 06-07-2021, 06:23 PM

The elephant in the room that never seems to be brought up is Luka and RC.

How long can these two go before they butt heads?

It's a sensitive subject that Mavs coach Rick Carlisle -- who has had his own tension with Doncic, a star that has shown up his coach on the court or bench several times when disagreeing with decisions -- has declined to discuss publicly. Carlisle often refers to the dynamic between Doncic and Porzingis as "evolving," pointing out how well the threat of Porzingis' perimeter shooting complements Doncic's ability to create off the dribble.

SMC0007 · 06-07-2021, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

The elephant in the room that never seems to be brought up is Luka and RC.

How long can these two go before they butt heads?

It's a sensitive subject that Mavs coach Rick Carlisle -- who has had his own tension with Doncic, a star that has shown up his coach on the court or bench several times when disagreeing with decisions -- has declined to discuss publicly. Carlisle often refers to the dynamic between Doncic and Porzingis as "evolving," pointing out how well the threat of Porzingis' perimeter shooting complements Doncic's ability to create off the dribble.

I think this is just hype.

Dallas41 · 06-07-2021, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I think this is just hype.

Possibly could be...

On one of Kirk's last podcast for this year he mentioned there have been rumblings.

But he doesn't expect anything to come from it.

I remember J.Kidd and S.Marion both initially hand differences with RC but that never turned into anything big.

Maybe Luka blows up at times out of frustration...

Bryan_Wilson · 06-07-2021, 10:41 PM

The real person who should be on the hot seat and should have been a while ago is Donnie.

FreshJive · 06-10-2021, 08:55 AM

The perfect scenario is Nellie Sr. is rich enough to own the Mavs, Jr. does whatever daddy tells him to do, and Cuban fucks off with his goofy shart tank bullshit. I have no doubt that Carlisle and Nellie Sr. could destroy the rest of the league with a Luka head start.

MFFL · 06-10-2021, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Should we fire Carlisle after blowing a 2-0 lead?

Even RC apologists would have to agree that we were favored to win the series at that point. To lose 4 of 5 games (with 3 of them being at home) is ridiculous

Dallas41 · 06-10-2021, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Even RC apologists would have to agree that we were favored to win the series at that point. To lose 4 of 5 games (with 3 of them being at home) is ridiculous

I still believe like many others if not for that one amazing run in 2011 he would be gone already.

We wouldn't hear those same apologist saying how great he is.

But as a few others have stated on here that one title has allowed him to become very comfortable within the organization.

Dude also had some great assets on his staff at that time which gets overlooked in Dwayne Casey who coached the defense and Terry Stotts as offensive coach. Ironically the Mavs haven't played defense since Casey left town.

Beyond Popovich I can't think of another NBA coach in the league today who would have survived six straight 1st round exits regardless of the talent on the roster.

When a coach loses that often in the playoffs usually no one wants to hear about his lack of talent at the end of day.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-10-2021, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Even RC apologists would have to agree that we were favored to win the series at that point. To lose 4 of 5 games (with 3 of them being at home) is ridiculous

I'm ready for a new FO and coach, but the Mavs were playing insane ball esp from the 3 point line. If you aren't defending, then that hot streak is going to wear off.

I think taking the Clippers to 7 games was a pretty incredible achievement. We woulda been swept by the Jazz anyway.

SMC0007 · 06-10-2021, 10:38 AM

Pros: There is no question that this roster has overachieved (at times). With the lack of a solid roster RC has hung around while the FO fumbled in several ways to build since 2011. Also, Cuban (and Donnie?) insisted on breaking up the championship team essentially because "have yall read the CBA?" IIRC. So it's not like Rick has had the tools but couldn't do the work.

Cons: He often has questionable rotations. Guys fall out of favor and there seems to be no obvious reason. He continues to not play young guys and when they're playing well they get taken out of the game or DNPCD. I can't recall him getting the most out of bigs aside from Tyson who was already pretty good. Have we had a good defense since the championship season?

Donnie is on a hotter seat than Rick IMO.

Dallas41 · 06-10-2021, 10:43 AM

“It would be great to find a rugged defender who is a deadeye shooter and could make some simple plays”.

Earlier in the interview, Carlisle talked about the team looking at ways to improve their defense. The Celtics employ one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and he is about to enter the final year of his contract. Dallas would love to add Marcus Smart in a Kemba Walker trade.

Yes, Smart is a career 32.0 percent 3-point shooter, but if any team could improve his shot it is the Mavericks. They have helped Tim Hardaway Jr., Dorian Finney-Smith, and Maxi Kleber make significant strides in that area in recent years. Smart is one of the best defenders in the league, and he averaged 5.7 assists per game during the 2020-2021 season.

EricaLubarsky · 06-10-2021, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julius

I dont care, better players would be nice

That's it in a nutshell.

Looking at our roster, we're just not very good. A new coach isn't going to suddenly make this roster talented.

purplefrog · 06-10-2021, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

“It would be great to find a rugged defender who is a deadeye shooter and could make some simple plays”.

Earlier in the interview, Carlisle talked about the team looking at ways to improve their defense. The Celtics employ one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and he is about to enter the final year of his contract. Dallas would love to add Marcus Smart in a Kemba Walker trade.

Yes, Smart is a career 32.0 percent 3-point shooter, but if any team could improve his shot it is the Mavericks. They have helped Tim Hardaway Jr., Dorian Finney-Smith, and Maxi Kleber make significant strides in that area in recent years. Smart is one of the best defenders in the league, and he averaged 5.7 assists per game during the 2020-2021 season.

Smart reminds me a bit of Deshawn Stevenson, but his apg is much better than D-Steve. Rugged defender, questionable 3-pt shooting (but can get really hot from time to time). I would love to see him as a Mav, but you would likely have to give up Brunson or at least one of the rooks. Would you give up Maxi and Josh Green in a trade for Marcus Smart? I would think about it for sure, since I think the Mavs need to make a deep playoff run sooner rather than later.

Dallas41 · 06-10-2021, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Smart reminds me a bit of Deshawn Stevenson, but his apg is much better than D-Steve. Rugged defender, questionable 3-pt shooting (but can get really hot from time to time). I would love to see him as a Mav, but you would likely have to give up Brunson or at least one of the rooks. Would you give up Maxi and Josh Green in a trade for Marcus Smart? I would think about it for sure, since I think the Mavs need to make a deep playoff run sooner rather than later.

I'm not so sure why everyone is so hell bent on keeping Brunson

Other than occasionally driving to the bucket which he can't seem to do in the playoffs vs good defenders what else does he bring to the table?

Holding onto guys like that is one of the one of the Mavs biggest issues

He's undersized and can't defend in post season.

I'll take Smart all day every day if cost me Brunson

Most people expected Dallas to take a jump this season like Phoenix and Atlanta and I think it's safe to say they didn't

They over value the players on this roster like Brunson

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-10-2021, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

That's it in a nutshell.

Looking at our roster, we're just not very good. A new coach isn't going to suddenly make this roster talented.

I agree which is why I think most fans want Donnie gone instead. Donnie needs to have an A+ offseason with no more howdy doody bs.

Even Bobbie Karella diplomatically said the clock was ticking with all of this.

purplefrog · 06-10-2021, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I'm not so sure why everyone is so hell bent on keeping Brunson

Other than occasionally driving to the bucket which he can't seem to do in the playoffs vs good defenders what else does he bring to the table?

Holding onto guys like that is one of the one of the Mavs biggest issues

He's undersized and can't defend in post season.

I'll take Smart all day every day if cost me Brunson

Most people expected Dallas to take a jump this season like Phoenix and Atlanta and I think it's safe to say they didn't

They over value the players on this roster like Brunson

I would too.

SMC0007 · 06-10-2021, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Smart reminds me a bit of Deshawn Stevenson, but his apg is much better than D-Steve. Rugged defender, questionable 3-pt shooting (but can get really hot from time to time). I would love to see him as a Mav, but you would likely have to give up Brunson or at least one of the rooks. Would you give up Maxi and Josh Green in a trade for Marcus Smart? I would think about it for sure, since I think the Mavs need to make a deep playoff run sooner rather than later.

NOPE. I like Smart a lot, but to me he's not worth our most versatile defender/best 3pt shooter AND a 1st rnd pick. Green hasn't had a full camp and we didn't get to see much of him period. When he was on the floor he played really solid defense, especially considering he is a rook. The last thing we need to see is one of our picks turning out to be a stud elsewhere. I'd be ok with packaging him, but ideally it would be for more than Marcus Smart.

Dallas41 · 06-11-2021, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

[/B]

NOPE. I like Smart a lot, but to me he's not worth our most versatile defender/best 3pt shooter AND a 1st rnd pick. Green hasn't had a full camp and we didn't get to see much of him period. When he was on the floor he played really solid defense, especially considering he is a rook. The last thing we need to see is one of our picks turning out to be a stud elsewhere. I'd be ok with packaging him, but ideally it would be for more than Marcus Smart.

It would be tempting if they added that shot blocking beast they have in Robert Williams....

That dude really goes hard after shots....

But Green would be hard to give up considering he didn't get to play. I'd imagine they would only include him in a deal for someone like Brogdon + Turner where are looking to acquire multiple high end starters.

BigDog63 · 06-11-2021, 06:40 AM

Carlisle isn't going to get fired...this year. Same with Donnie.

But I think next year is critical for both, and for the Mavs.

I'm probably a good bell weather for this. I haven't been on board the 'get rid of Carlisle' train before. Now I'm looking at the tickets, and what the other destinations might be.

MFFL · 06-11-2021, 07:59 AM

I think the thing I have against Carlisle is his mindset

He thinks he can build an all-world offense with Luka and scrap parts. And RC can! He can build a great offense even without Luka - in the regular season

The problem is that those lower tier players get exposed in the playoffs and they can't perform the same way

If Carlisle was interested in getting a defense built out of scrubs - now you are talking! Defense is always there, even in the playoffs

Build an offense with tier 1 & 2 players. Build a defense with everyone else

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-11-2021, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

I think the thing I have against Carlisle is his mindset

He thinks he can build an all-world offense with Luka and scrap parts. And RC can! He can build a great offense even without Luka - in the regular season

The problem is that those lower tier players get exposed in the playoffs and they can't perform the same way

If Carlisle was interested in getting a defense built out of scrubs - now you are talking! Defense is always there, even in the playoffs

Build an offense with tier 1 & 2 players. Build a defense with everyone else

That's Donnie's job to put those players around Rick, and he has failed to do so since we got Luka.

Either these guys are playing some silly moneyball analytics game, or they just aren't very good at their jobs.

And again, the Mavs made a decision early in the season to have Luka be the offense with an otherwise defensive team. I was totally on board with that.

Abandoned quickly.

MFFL · 06-11-2021, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And again, the Mavs made a decision early in the season to have Luka be the offense with an otherwise defensive team. I was totally on board with that.

Abandoned quickly.

Yep

Donnie brought in 3 defensive types this off-season - Richardson, JJohnson and Iwundu. You would have thought that ONE of them would have worked out

All were discarded by Carlisle in his quest for a perfect offense

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-11-2021, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Yep

Donnie brought in 3 defensive types this off-season - Richardson, JJohnson and Iwundu. You would have thought that ONE of them would have worked out

All were discarded by Carlisle in his quest for a perfect offense

And I think J-Rich was really bothered by the James Johnson trade. I know they played together on Miami, and his game really fell off after Johnson was traded. I have no idea what went wrong with James Johnson.

Iwundu was straight trash, but that's still on Donnie for singing him.

dirt_dobber · 06-11-2021, 09:49 AM

Check out the praise that JJ Reddick has about Rick Carlisle.
Thank You To The Dallas Mavericks Organization and Fans + An Injury Update | JJ Redick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCxz...RedickVerified

EricaLubarsky · 06-11-2021, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

Yep

Donnie brought in 3 defensive types this off-season - Richardson, JJohnson and Iwundu. You would have thought that ONE of them would have worked out

All were discarded by Carlisle in his quest for a perfect offense

I'm not sure Johnson is a defensive type.

Richardson was a two-way guy rather than a one-way guy. That's not really a defensive stopper.

Iwundu? Fair. That's all he had going for him.

We also drafted Green for his athleticism and defense. At least in theory, it was a vote for defense. He just didn't play much.

MFFL · 06-11-2021, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I'm not sure Johnson is a defensive type.

Richardson was a two-way guy rather than a one-way guy. That's not really a defensive stopper.

Iwundu? Fair. That's all he had going for him.

We also drafted Green for his athleticism and defense. At least in theory, it was a vote for defense. He just didn't play much.

Fair

Johnson was hyped as the kung fu guy - able to be a rugged defender for Luka. He certainly wasn't brought here for his offensive capability

Richardson was definitely more defensive minded than the guy we traded

Iwundu was defense first. We were supposed to give him a year to develop a jump shot

Green was a lost cause. He wasn't ready and there literally wasn't practice time available to get him ready. If he stays on the bench next year then I will be very disappointed

But I would like my head coach to be a LITTLE more defensive minded. You can get a good playoff defense out of otherwise average players. You cannot get a good playoff offense out of average players - its just not possible