Collison, James, Roddy - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DGM · 03-15-2013, 09:14 AM

Are Collison and Jamesso much better than Roddy that Roddy shouldn't see the floor? I would like to see him in the rotation so that I can see the difference for myself. RC made a committment to James and allowed him to play without having to look over his shoulder. I would like to see Roddy in the same situation so that I can get a good perspective him. I just don't see such a big difference that two guys play and one sits. James is now the back up 2 guard as well.

dude1394 · 03-15-2013, 12:48 PM

Yes

DGM · 03-15-2013, 07:08 PM

Why

MavsFTR · 03-15-2013, 07:34 PM

Apparently Cuban doesn't want to discuss Roddy. Makes me think he's not coming back.

DGM · 03-15-2013, 07:47 PM

Why

DGM · 03-15-2013, 09:39 PM

I saw for myself what Roddy can do with minutes. Will RC go back to James vs. Thunder.

twelli · 03-15-2013, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Are Collison and Jamesso much better than Roddy that Roddy shouldn't see the floor? I would like to see him in the rotation so that I can see the difference for myself. RC made a committment to James and allowed him to play without having to look over his shoulder. I would like to see Roddy in the same situation so that I can get a good perspective him. I just don't see such a big difference that two guys play and one sits. James is now the back up 2 guard as well.

Your wish has been granted. Nice game by the "Rookie".

SMC0007 · 03-16-2013, 12:01 AM

Wtf, re-sign Roddy. F-it.

sefant77 · 03-16-2013, 01:10 AM

Great, Thread, Title

Easy, To, See, What, OP, Wants

j0Shi · 03-16-2013, 05:26 AM

Think the folks at mavsmoneyball covered the topic pretty well the last couple days. Under Rick it's more important to fit a role rather than being the superior player. Hard to argue when the results are there. And I'd say they still are, because this team, as constructed + Dirk injury, is not playoff caliber. So can't blame the coach if they'll eventually miss them.

GP · 03-16-2013, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Think the folks at mavsmoneyball covered the topic pretty well the last couple days. Under Rick it's more important to fit a role rather than being the superior player. Hard to argue when the results are there. And I'd say they still are, because this team, as constructed + Dirk injury, is not playoff caliber. So can't blame the coach if they'll eventually miss them.

You know, up until about 3 weeks ago I was right there with you. Now, I am thinking the team and RC need to go their separate ways. Without Kidd, Casey and Stotts it appears that RC just coaches based on whims or whatever. No real rhyme or reason. It's just because. I am not a giant fan of either Wright or Roddy; however, the whole DNP-CD for half the friggin' season while playing guys who were/are just terrible is the last straw for me.

The guy seems like a huge friggin' hypocrit to me who just jerks players around because he can. No excuse to start Kaman and then play him 2 minutes or 6 minutes in a game. No excuse to see Roddy play fantastic one game and then get the DNP-CD for 3 weeks. Especially in light of the fact that Collison, Mayo, James, etc. are all free agents to be as well. At least Roddy plays some friggin' D and he passes the ball to open guys. Carlisle is always harping about playing better D but he NEVER plays guys who can actually play it in any significant manner. How many minutes did Brewer play when here? How about Dahntay Jones? Roddy?

Oh, what happened to Bernard James? Wright couldn't get in a game because he sucked defensively, yet Mayo rakes in the minutes? Collison rakes in the minutes? Before Marion got hurt he never played the last few minutes of the 4th when stops are at a premium. We can go on and on and on about this but the bottom line is this. Whether or not this team has the talent to make the playoffs is irrelevant because in my opinion this has been an extremely poorly coached team from day 1 and really last year as well. Just one big coaching clusterfu(%.

oilfieldtrash · 03-16-2013, 09:11 AM

Yes let's get rid of another championship piece in RC. I'm sure Mike Brown or PJ Carlisimo will be available in the offseason.

Popeye · 03-16-2013, 10:18 AM

Wright -- The guy is good, yet Carlisle keeps him on the bench for weeks before dusting him off and watching him go. His efficiency stats and plus/minus suggests he's one of the top 2 or 3 players on the team.

Roddy - nobody remembers, but he had a pretty consistent stretch of solid basketball right before he got permanently yanked for Mike James. Since he's been on the bench so long people make up excuses for why he's there.

Collison - I like Collison better than most, but his defense is frustrating. I think ultimately Collison is a good backup PG, although he should be starting for this team.

Carlisle - this team has underachieved, and there's no excuse for who he chooses to play. He plays guys that fill a role? Okay, what role was Dojo filling when he played the 2nd quarter of the Rockets game when it was still close? I guess it's good coaching to pay a guy meaningful minutes when you know he shouldn't even be in the NBA and waive him a few days later.

He plays favorites with veterans, and I don't think he's capable of developing young players. The "flow" offense is not a good fit, and the spacing on that side of the floor is consistently bad. They have the personnel to stretch the floor out, but the lane is always congested on pick n' roll plays. To be fair, I do think he's a pretty good defensive coach, but I think his overall coaching performance for the year has been poor.

DGM · 03-16-2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

Wright -- The guy is good, yet Carlisle keeps him on the bench for weeks before dusting him off and watching him go. His efficiency stats and plus/minus suggests he's one of the top 2 or 3 players on the team.

Roddy - nobody remembers, but he had a pretty consistent stretch of solid basketball right before he got permanently yanked for Mike James. Since he's been on the bench so long people make up excuses for why he's there.

Collison - I like Collison better than most, but his defense is frustrating. I think ultimately Collison is a good backup PG, although he should be starting for this team.

Carlisle - this team has underachieved, and there's no excuse for who he chooses to play. He plays guys that fill a role? Okay, what role was Dojo filling when he played the 2nd quarter of the Rockets game when it was still close? I guess it's good coaching to pay a guy meaningful minutes when you know he shouldn't even be in the NBA and waive him a few days later.

He plays favorites with veterans, and I don't think he's capable of developing young players. The "flow" offense is not a good fit, and the spacing on that side of the floor is consistently bad. They have the personnel to stretch the floor out, but the lane is always congested on pick n' roll plays. To be fair, I do think he's a pretty good defensive coach, but I think his overall coaching performance for the year has been poor.

I was trying to figure out why Roddy was banished to the end of the bench after the all star break. He went from back up point to the end of the bench. There was no explanation and all of the loca media responded like it was perfectly logical. I have no problem with Mike James but he's a 37 year old who wasn't even in the NBA at the start of the season.

j0Shi · 03-16-2013, 12:18 PM

Let me say that I agree with others that this overall underwhelming season also includes coaching, but Rick is really the last to blame. As I've said in other threads, not being able to incorporate Kaman (and to some extend also Collison) is something RC shouldn't get a pass on. Not getting the ball to Dirk sans Kidd is another story that they absolutely should have been able to figure out.

On the other hand: We're still playing a Dirk-centric system of course and non-superstar players have to fit in more than the system has to adjust for them. That's why James plays in front of Collison, because he offers more "Kiddness." It's no coincidence that Dirk shoots 48.7% with James on the court, only 41.5% with Collison (Roddy 45.6%, but Dirk's usage drops considerably). 46.3% of James assists go to Dirk, Collison 34.5%, Roddy 31.8%. So if you wanna get the most out of Dirk, James is the statistical choice.

That said, I still think Roddys decision making in the pick and roll is the best among the three (the bar is sure low here) and his on-court chemistry with Dirk tops Collison and James as well, but health and head is always a concern.

In terms of Wright I agree that you gotta be able to find minutes somehow, but his inability to stretch the floor makes him an exclusive five on this team and his playing time is a direct result of Kaman sucking hard. I think Rick could be a bit more flexible here and there, but that's it.

LonghornDub · 03-16-2013, 01:12 PM

James is not "so much better" than Roddy at any phase of the game other than throwing post entry passes. In every other area, they are at worst even, or Roddy is considerably better.

But James is old and a "savvy vet" (nevermind that he makes ridiculously horrible decisions all the time), hence PT.

*edit to add* This isn't a compliment to Roddy, who has woefully disappointed time and time again. He's the lesser of two evils.

dude1394 · 03-16-2013, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

I saw for myself what Roddy can do with minutes. Will RC go back to James vs. Thunder.

You saw what he can do when he isn't playing like a puss. Which he has done about 90% of the time he has been an nba player.

dude1394 · 03-16-2013, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

That said, I still think Roddys decision making in the pick and roll is the best among the three (the bar is sure low here) and his on-court chemistry with Dirk tops Collison and James as well, but health and head is always a concern.

In terms of Wright I agree that you gotta be able to find minutes somehow, but his inability to stretch the floor makes him an exclusive five on this team and his playing time is a direct result of Kaman sucking hard. I think Rick could be a bit more flexible here and there, but that's it.

Saw late in the game a pnr with collison/dirk...both defenders went with collison and he still forced some crap up and lost it. Dirk was over there just shaking his head. Saying wth is wrong with you.

DGM · 03-16-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

James is not "so much better" than Roddy at any phase of the game other than throwing post entry passes. In every other area, they are at worst even, or Roddy is considerably better.

But James is old and a "savvy vet" (nevermind that he makes ridiculously horrible decisions all the time), hence PT.

*edit to add* This isn't a compliment to Roddy, who has woefully disappointed time and time again. He's the lesser of two evils.

"Saint Ricky" mismanaged this player.Rememder the SA playoffs his rookie year.

LonghornDub · 03-16-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

"Saint Ricky" mismanaged this player.Rememder the SA playoffs his rookie year.

Rick is a damn fine coach. I wouldn't trade him for anybody short of Pop. Everyone makes mistakes and miscalculations.

oilfieldtrash · 03-16-2013, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

"Saint Ricky" mismanaged this player.Rememder the SA playoffs his rookie year.

Totally agree.

So who's the replacement? Avery, PJ Carlesimo, Mike Brown?

DGM · 03-16-2013, 04:24 PM

all coaches screw up. rc is a good coach, he just needs to come off his high horse and admit when he's wrong. i'm not advocating replacing him. i just want to see him lighten up a bit. he seems to believe his own bs. popovich doesn't show that attitude.

when parker got hurt is was next man up, not go get a 37 year old off the scrap heap. player development is a key part of the job. roddy plays well in milwaukee and gets a dnp vs. spurs. rc will play james against westbrook tomorrow and he will run past him the whole first quarter. meanwhile his best defensive guard will be the third man in.

as far as i'm concerned i would have preferred roddy and dojo over fisher and james. those over the hill guys are not going to help get the team back to 50+ win seasons. they are ok to add to the bench of a winning team but in dallas their minutes were stolen from the development of younger guys. i would prefer to see roddy play the minutes and put mike at third in the pg rotation. none of us knows what roddy can do if rc shows some confidence in him.
dnps do not add to a players confidence. its an insult to roddy for james to be getting two guard minutes. that's rc's head games. that's mismanagement of a talented player and that's why i believe that mavs fans will be disappointed in the future when roddy is playing for another team.

its the same thing that boston did with billups... player mismanagement.

dude1394 · 03-16-2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

"Saint Ricky" mismanaged this player.Rememder the SA playoffs his rookie year.

Carlisle hasn't mismanaged anything with roddy. In fact he made a collossal screw up imo giving him so much playing time in 2011. Almost cost us.

Roddy plays like a wuss about 90% of the time and I'm dead serious about it. Last night was a different player and it had nothing to do with whether he was being given time or not, he played differently.

If he plays aggressively and not like a wuss, he will get plenty of playing time.

DGM · 03-16-2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Carlisle hasn't mismanaged anything with roddy. In fact he made a collossal screw up imo giving him so much playing time in 2011. Almost cost us.

Roddy plays like a wuss about 90% of the time and I'm dead serious about it. Last night was a different player and it had nothing to do with whether he was being given time or not, he played differently.

If he plays aggressively and not like a wuss, he will get plenty of playing time.

How do you play aggressively at the end of the bench? He played well vs bucks an cabs and lot at all vs. wolves and spurs. That's mismanagement of talent.

oilfieldtrash · 03-16-2013, 05:49 PM

No one gives a crap about scrub ass Roddy or his supposed mismanaging. He's had 4 seasons now and it always ends up with the same ending. Good game, good game, hurt misses 15 games, comes back and doesn't show up in a game for two Weeks, good game, hurt again...

dude1394 · 03-16-2013, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

How do you play aggressively at the end of the bench? He played well vs bucks an cabs and lot at all vs. wolves and spurs. That's mismanagement of talent.

He's been in plenty of games. He's been given time from Carlisle on many, many occasions. But he always reverts to a wuss. Your hyperbole is just that, hyperbole.

G-Man · 03-16-2013, 06:14 PM

Those criticizing RC's handling of Roddy should look back to the championship year. Roddy was out hurt the 1st half of the season. After the all-star break he was supposed to be our savior. He was force fed minutes and the team struggled. He got hurt at the end, went to the bench and was replaced by Stevenson, and the team got much better.

I love the kid and have high hopes for him, but the only thing he is consistent with is inconsistency.

I am also hesitant to criticize RC because he has much more information. I don't know how hard Roddy works in practice compared to how hard James does. Personally, every time James shot the ball in his 1st ten games, I yelled at the TV "You SUCK!" But he has surprised me by earning his minutes...something he did at Roddy's expense.

I predict that Roddy will get more minutes, then proceed to either throw up wild shots, turn the ball over a lot, or twist his ankle. I have been watching this act for 4 years, and it has grown tiresome.

yahyes · 03-16-2013, 06:17 PM

All I know is they have a lot of point guards to choose from till the end. If we get someone like Josh Smith this summer. Keeping these guys at a good price could work.

grndmstr_c · 03-16-2013, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

He's been in plenty of games. He's been given time from Carlisle on many, many occasions. But he always reverts to a wuss. Your hyperbole is just that, hyperbole.

Always get a kick out of it when you crown one of your absurd, incessant rants with a concise and dismissive characterization of your own argumentative style.

tgfan · 03-16-2013, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

I saw for myself what Roddy can do with minutes. Will RC go back to James vs. Thunder.

Yes, and he will also likely start Kaman yet again, despite all evidence to the contrary that Kaman has ANY hope of competing against such an athletic team as the Thunder. I, for one, am really getting tired of having to dig out of early holes in every game because the starting lineup is not athletic enough.

j0Shi · 03-16-2013, 06:55 PM

I like to think that knowledge of the true health status of Roddy throughout this season would help a lot on the topic. Last night Rick mentioned health being key for him for at least the second if not third time this season and Roddy himself admitted that he is feeling well but "could be better."

So either I missed it or it never surfaced, but think there has been an issue that has kept him from being 100% for a good bunch of the season (again).

DGM · 03-16-2013, 07:45 PM

Makes sense. If so I wonder why so secretive.

DavidDaMonkey · 03-17-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Makes sense. If so I wonder why so secretive.

Trade value? As a favor to Roddy for his value on the open market if they don't plan on keeping him around?

escobar317 · 03-17-2013, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

"Saint Ricky" mismanaged this player.Rememder the SA playoffs his rookie year.

THIS

escobar317 · 03-17-2013, 08:08 PM

anthony morrow anyone? Why not give him some tick?

adonis · 03-17-2013, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by escobar317

anthony morrow anyone? Why not give him some tick?

This. Jae Crowder has been garbage since preseason, and still gets a free rotation spot.

Fire Rick Carlisle PLEASE

G-Man · 03-18-2013, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonis

This. Jae Crowder has been garbage since preseason, and still gets a free rotation spot.

Fire Rick Carlisle PLEASE

I totally disagree. Jae has been very productive for a 2nd round pick.

On the other hand, I feel terrible for Roddy. I predicted that after that 1 good game against Cleveland, he'd, and I quote myself..I predict that Roddy will get more minutes, then proceed to either throw up wild shots, turn the ball over a lot, or twist his ankle.

The only thing I got wrong was the ankle...he broke a finger instead.

dude1394 · 03-18-2013, 03:53 PM

Agreed...jae is just what you want in a role player, tough heady player. He had some boneheaded plays last night but they were things that many vets have, throwing it cross-court, etc.

He is not a ball-stopper, he makes good quick decisions and he's physical. If he continues to hit the 3ball and work as hard defensively as he can, he'll be a solid rotation player (backup but a rotation player) for a while.

I would like to see him get even more physical than he has.

SMC0007 · 03-18-2013, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonis

This. Jae Crowder has been garbage since preseason, and still gets a free rotation spot.

Fire Rick Carlisle PLEASE

Wtf? Either can't be serious. OR. Don't understand what you are staring at for 2.5 hours on game day.

dude1394 · 03-18-2013, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonis

This. Jae Crowder has been garbage since preseason, and still gets a free rotation spot.

Fire Rick Carlisle PLEASE

And the other small forward is?? Sheesh...