Does Indiana consider this deal?

[mavs03]

We all know that Utah has offered Brad Miller a lucrative contract. I'm pretty sure Miller will make a decision either today or tomorrow on his future. If you're Indiana, wouldn't you consider some sign-and-trade posssibilities? With that said, here's a proposal that I feel makes sense for both teams involved:

Dallas trades Nick Van Exel, Shawn Bradley, Avery Johnson, future 1st rounder, and cash

Indiana trades Brad Miller, Al Harrington, and Austin Croshere

Why Dallas does it? Pretty obvoius. They get an upgrade at the center position with Miller. Harrington is a budding star at the small forward position. We fill both of our offseason goals...C and SF. Croshere will be another TAW (making a boatload of money), although I think he could provide a little spark off the bench.

Why Indiana does it? They get something for Miller. They get a legit PG in NVE. They get a serviceable center in Bradley who will be making less than half what Miller will be making. I believe Bradley instantly puts up better numbers in the (L)eastern conference. They unload Croshere's massive contract. AJ's 5 million dollar contract expires at the end of this season. Keep in mind Indiana wants to stay below the NBA luxury tax. The only downside is they give up Harrington. But with them having Artest and Bender signed to long-term deals, who both play the SF position, I think Harrington could be expendable. If they want to replace Harrington with Bender or Artest, I would still do the deal.

Your thoughts?

[MavKikiNYC]

Indiana considers the deal, minus Harrington.

[Evilmav2]

Donnie Walsh has made it abundantly clear this offseason, both in word and action, that he will emphatically NOT trade Al Harrington.

He would love to get rid of the cap-unfriendly contract of Croshere, and I am sure he would love to gain some compensation for the probably outbound Miller, but any trade talk including Harrington is extremely, extremely implausible at the moment...

[Jeremiah]

give me artest instead of Al. Indiana might agree to that before agreeing to ship Al.

[kg_veteran]

What about this?

Nick Van Exel, Eduardo Najera, Avery Johnson, future 1st rounder, and cash

for

Brad Miller, Ron Artest, and Austin Croshere


Pacers get rid of a center they weren't going to be able to keep anyway, a forward they don't use, and a guy that Jermaine O'Neal doesn't like.

Here's the new theoretical Dallas lineup:

Miller - Bradley
Nowitzki - LaFrentz
Artest - Croshere
Finley - Bell - Howard
Nash - Daniels


Man, I'd do that in a heartbeat. I've probably got Dallas getting too much in the deal, but who knows? I'd probably do it for just Miller and Croshere, as long as it's Najera rather than Bradley.

[Bayliss]

If I was Cuban, I'd be talking Indiana's ear off about scenarios that would land Brad Miller and Croshere/Bender/Artest (any one of the 3).

And KG... I'd do that deal as quick as I could.

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
What about this?

Nick Van Exel, Eduardo Najera, Avery Johnson, future 1st rounder, and cash

for

Brad Miller, Ron Artest, and Austin Croshere


Pacers get rid of a center they weren't going to be able to keep anyway, a forward they don't use, and a guy that Jermaine O'Neal doesn't like.

Here's the new theoretical Dallas lineup:

Miller - Bradley
Nowitzki - LaFrentz
Artest - Croshere
Finley - Bell - Howard
Nash - Daniels


Man, I'd do that in a heartbeat. I've probably got Dallas getting too much in the deal, but who knows? I'd probably do it for just Miller and Croshere, as long as it's Najera rather than Bradley.

I like that deal for the Mavs. It'll allow Josh to come in with even less pressure, but time to learn on the job, will put Raef as the back up PF, which is where I like him. Actually, and here's my tangential rant, I don't care what front court position he plays, as long as it's in the post. Sure he's a PF, whatever the heck that is. He can play center like he did for 5 years in Denver. He also can play underneath the basket - I saw as much in Game 6. He can score there, and within reason, he can defend someone backing him down, it's the slashing that gets him into trouble. So it doesn't matter to me if he's playing c or pf, as long as he's doing it in the post on both sides of the ball. I don't expect that to ever happen consistently in Dallas, but it's my preference. Ahh, I feel better now.

It also gives us depth at F with Austin, who can light up the scoreboard when needed. That contract of his though is not unlike the albatross that was just lifted from Juwan's neck. The guy can play, and I'd rather have guys on the roster that actually play, even if they are overpaid, than sit around and twiddle their thumbs.
I also like it for the Pacers. It gives them a pg starter now, and a pg coach for the fella from Iowa State. Additionally, a bit of cash to ease their financial burden. I used to discount the power of cash in trades, but I think it'd be pretty persuasive nowadays, or anytime really. Getting closer to the black is something every businessman wants.

[mavs03]

I would absoultely do that deal KG_Veteran:

Nick Van Exel, Eduardo Najera, Avery Johnson, future 1st rounder, and cash

for

Brad Miller, Ron Artest, and Austin Croshere

I think it's a fair deal for both teams involved. I hate to give up both of our energy guys in NVE and Najera...but I believe I would do this deal.

[kg_veteran]

The key question is whether Indy would do it, because I don't think there's any question Dallas would.

Look at this lineup again:

Miller - Bradley
Nowitzki - LaFrentz
Artest - Croshere
Finley - Bell - Howard
Nash - Daniels

You've got your hard-nosed stopper on the perimeter (Artest) and your banger inside (Miller). Your rebounding would be much improved overall, and team defense should be better. You've got a lot more versatility than last year, and you arguably have a better bench.

[Ummmmm Ok]

Lets look at it from Indy's point of view:

- Miller or NVE? Indiana would have to go with Nick Van Exel as they really need a PG in the worst way. Of course they will be needing a Center now as well.

- Artest or Najera? Indiana would probably stick with Artest as much as I hate to admit it. Apart from the attitude, he brings a certain fire to their team.

- Croshere for AJ, 1st rounder, and cash? This is what makes Indy do this deal. They get to offload his contract on somebody and get cap relief in 2004.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok
Lets look at it from Indy's point of view:

- Miller or NVE? Indiana would have to go with Nick Van Exel as they really need a PG in the worst way. Of course they will be needing a Center now as well.

- Artest or Najera? Indiana would probably stick with Artest as much as I hate to admit it. Apart from the attitude, he brings a certain fire to their team.

- Croshere for AJ, 1st rounder, and cash? This is what makes Indy do this deal. They get to offload his contract on somebody and get cap relief in 2004.

Good post.

[uberfan]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
What about this?

Nick Van Exel, Eduardo Najera, Avery Johnson, future 1st rounder, and cash

for

Brad Miller, Ron Artest, and Austin Croshere


Pacers get rid of a center they weren't going to be able to keep anyway, a forward they don't use, and a guy that Jermaine O'Neal doesn't like.

Here's the new theoretical Dallas lineup:

Miller - Bradley
Nowitzki - LaFrentz
Artest - Croshere
Finley - Bell - Howard
Nash - Daniels


Man, I'd do that in a heartbeat. I've probably got Dallas getting too much in the deal, but who knows? I'd probably do it for just Miller and Croshere, as long as it's Najera rather than Bradley.

Most of the trade I like. However, there is no need to include a future 1st and cash in the deal if

1) Miller consents to a S&T
2) Pacers are trying to get something instead of nothing.

What they are getting is relief from AC contract and next year for AJ. And, in two years after the upcoming season, from NVE.

[foglemann]

This is the type of trade I would love for Cuban Nellie to sign off on. Getting Artest was always my idea for this offseason, adding Miller and Croshere would just be iceing on the cake. I always thought that Artest was Jermaine's boy, but I could be wrong. I also like bender and tinsley. If they wanted to keep Artest, they could make some combo of Croshere, Tinsley, Bender, Miller, Mercer, even Foster. They have so many players that we could use as starter or in depth that they are the best team for us to trade with in a S & T.

[OutletPass]

I definitely think that it would benefit both sides...as I posted in a thread last night in the around the NBA section.

indy has two or three real concerns:

1) they need to get something in return for Miller rather than being left with nothing.
2) indy needs a PG.
3) indy would love to get rid of croshere.

Keep in mind that we don't need to give equal value for Miller...he can walk out of there door and leave them empty handed....let's just say that NVE goes for Miller.

Now, so what do they give us to take Croshere off of their hands ?

Well we can give them some cap space, take Croshere...So I wouldn't take less than Artest or Harrington. Bender is still unproven in every way. He's nice...I like his potential...but if I'm GM...I want more than him. If Indy wants to keep Harrington so badly, then it would come down to Artest for me.

This isn't a time when indy has a lot of leverage with teams proposing a S&T....

The three concerns cited above HAVE to Be addressed....

[jayC]

One do you think this puts us in the same contending chance as the lakers and spurs. If you think it does you do it but if you don't. You let this group through when all contracts run through 2007. If it doesn't work out you end up with what 170 million dollars worth of centers.

As for the 2/3s Id take artest, harrington or bender along with the huge croshere deal. If you pulled the trigger on this deal wouldn't you sign speedy claxton for part of the 4.9 million dollar exception.

[FilthyFinMavs]

This deal helps us really this offseason because while we do get rid of Nick which I would really hate to do you still have that exception and you will more than likely have to overpay a pg to get him to come here. Claxton comes to mind. Right now I just can't trust a undrafted point guard to take us to the playoffs. You have to remember one thing that got us to the WCF was because of our point guard play. But if you the overall trade if I were Indiana i'd think twice before saying yes to this deal. They give up there 2nd and 3rd best player on there team and get Nick and baggage? I think with the West teams emerging like they are the 1st rounder may look nice in indiana eyes but I don't know I think Indiana gets just a bit less than what they can get for Artest. He's a headcase though and a headcase I like. When you say the Mavs need a 3 Artest is the definition of what they need. If Mavs can get there Big Man and Foward position weaknesses solved by just trading Nick, Najera and AJ the Mavs have to do it. Chemistry is really questioned here. In the long run we become alot better but for right now this team is really going to have to get used to playing Mavs ball. Tim Hardaway never could get use to it.

[Big Boy Laroux]

sounds good FFM, but word is claxton has signed with the warriors...

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by: jayC
One do you think this puts us in the same contending chance as the lakers and spurs. If you think it does you do it but if you don't. You let this group through when all contracts run through 2007. If it doesn't work out you end up with what 170 million dollars worth of centers.

As for the 2/3s Id take artest, harrington or bender along with the huge croshere deal. If you pulled the trigger on this deal wouldn't you sign speedy claxton for part of the 4.9 million dollar exception.

Yes, I think adding Artest, Miller, and Austin, while subtracting Nick, AJ and Eddie puts the Mavs neck and neck with the lakers, spurs and kings. Using Raja and Marquis as the pg when Nash is on the bench would be the thing that would threaten us from leapfrogging those teams - that is if Marquis doesn't have the tools to play like he'd need to - same with Raja with respects to the pg spot. Adding a pg in addition to this would in my mind, make the NBA Finals favorites.

[jayC]

Maybe indiana has given up on even resigning miller:
Center of attention

Jazz bid to lure Miller west appears successful
Posted: Monday July 21, 2003 5:21 PM
Updated: Tuesday July 22, 2003 5:27 PM

Brad Miller is one of the few undrafted players to make an All-Star Game. Ron Hoskins/NBAE/Getty Images
INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- The Indiana Pacers have all but given up hope of keeping free-agent center Brad Miller, who has reportedly been offered a six-year, $50 million contract by the Utah Jazz.

Newspapers in Salt Lake City and Denver, both of which Miller visited over the weekend, reported Monday that Miller was offered about $8.7 million a season, which is more than $3 million higher than the $5.3 million he made with the Pacers last season.

Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said Monday he has little hope of retaining Miller. The Pacers cannot match those offers without exceeding the luxury tax threshold and have been unable to lighten their payroll to free up money to spend on Miller.

"We've done everything we can do," Walsh told The Indianapolis Star. "We've had the whole franchise working on this for a long time. There's just no way to do it."

Messages seeking comment were left Monday for Miller's agent, Mark Bartelstein. A team spokesman said the Jazz would have no comment.

Walsh said he had no hope of a last-minute reprieve.

"(Miller) is not coming to us saying, 'I really want to be there, so let's work it out.' He's negotiating with us like anybody else."

Walsh had hoped to clear room to offer Miller more money by reducing his roster payroll through trades. He said he and his staff have worked "furiously" on a move since last December but have been unable to do so.

According to the Rocky Mountain News, the Nuggets were willing to offer a six-year deal for more than $40 million, and Miller did not expect the Nuggets to improve their offer to match Utah.

Miller met with Jazz officials Thursday and Friday in Salt Lake City, and later flew to Denver with Nuggets general manager Kiki Vandeweghe for further talks.

Jazz owner Larry Miller said Friday that Brad Miller was upset because the Pacers have not yet made a firm offer.

Miller, who went undrafted out of Purdue, averaged 13.1 points and 8.3 rebounds and made his first All-Star appearance last season. He was acquired in February 2002 from the Chicago Bulls in a seven-player deal.

[uberfan]

I read somewhere to day that Denver upped their offer last night to 6 and $49 MM. So, it's between Denver and Jazz, or where do you want to live Brad. An average over the course of the contract of $8.67/year in Salt Lake City or $8.17/year in Denver?

At those rates, Mavs better stay out of the S&T, UNLESS they get some other players that will make an immediate impact on Mavs from Pacers this year and beyond.

Back to the drawing board.

[Bayliss]

At those rates, Mavs better stay out of the S&T, UNLESS they get some other players that will make an immediate impact on Mavs from Pacers this year and beyond.

Miller would make an immediate impact if signed.

Artest/Bender/Croshere would just be icing on the cake.

[one long blue sock]

Artest would be more then Icing, he would be basically the cake.

The games that he WOULD play, he would be probably the biggest impact that any 3 in the L could give us.(apart from Kobe and T-mac)

He was the second runner up on defensive player of the award, and is the best guard defender i have ever seen. He get his steals from alot of quickness, but mostly head games, anticipation. But alot of his defense is taking a player out of the game, and frustrating them. Players don't like to be guarded by Artest.

He might be a head case, but it isn't any help that he is surrounded by head cases. JO, both Millers, and Al arn't the best teamates you can have.

Even if he has a problem with his attitude, he still is dedicated to defense, 2.30 steals doens't come easily. He also has some offense, 4.30% shooting. He would probably score 10 points on the Mavs, but he would perfect the Mavs perimeter defense, he is the kind of 3 we need.

[Bayliss]

But standing alone: I'll take Miller over Artest. Artest is the much better player. But Miller fits our immediate needs more.

If we sign Artest by himself:

LaFrentz, Dirk, Artest, Fin, and Nash. Now then. We sured up our 3 position. But is Raef still out of position? Yes. Who is the only true rebounder in that lineup? Dirk. Just like it was last year. Will SA and LA eat us alive on the inside? Absolutely.

If we sign Miller by himself:

Miller, LaFrentz, Dirk, Fin and Nash. Dirk is a little out of position, but it gives us two good rebounders... a tough physical interior presence on offense and defense. And we still have Bradley coming in as a backup.

And if we get both:

We would be major challengers to the Lakeshow next year.

[one long blue sock]

Are perimeter defense would suck even worse, what about when they are playing small ball.

Nick, Steve, and Dirk, 2 players that can't even get high enough to contest a shot, and 1 player who can't keep up with anyone.

LA would still eat us up with Kobe and Payton
Minn would eat us up with Cassell, Wally, Hudson, and Spree.
Philly would eat us up with AI and Robinson
T-mac would eat us up.

We have to needs, perimeter defense and interior rebounding. Artest would impact this team more, and when you are talking about the positions being wrong, that will come at either trade. But Artest would be better for what we need him to be, best perimeter defender in the L, but Miller is not the best rebounder in the legue.

[Lvubun1]

Originally posted by: uberfan
I read somewhere to day that Denver upped their offer last night to 6 and $49 MM. So, it's between Denver and Jazz, or where do you want to live Brad. An average over the course of the contract of $8.67/year in Salt Lake City or $8.17/year in Denver?

At those rates, Mavs better stay out of the S&T, UNLESS they get some other players that will make an immediate impact on Mavs from Pacers this year and beyond.

Back to the drawing board.

Way too much for Miller, if he didn't stumble into a all-star game and get into it with Shaq, nobody would know who he is. Just like people are looking back thinking what was Dallas thinking signing Raef for so much, the same thing will happen with Miller this year.

[Joe57/3]

You forget that B. Miller would also have to agree to it. And maybe he would rather be a star on Utah or Denver than a 4th or 5th banana on Dallas. I'm not saying he wouldn't consider it, but what would be in it for him? Dallas won't be winning the title anytime soon (unfortunately), so you can't say a ring is the motivation.


"Dallas won't be winning the title anytime soon (unfortunately)"
sorry to point that out but LA has it for at least 2 years (although only one if Kobe is convicted). Unfortunately for the Mavs, the Kings and Wolves are also better and the Rockets, Suns, and Sonics are closing fast. The Mavs title window is probably the 2006-2007 titles, when LA, Sac. and Min will be too old and Hou., PHX, and Sea. might still be a little young. They should look for that time-table unless they can get a bonafide star (ie, not Miller). If they could get in on the big trade and get Spree or the Big Dog, it might be a different story.