Any chance of lineups with Chandler & Haywood? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sbjensen · 05-02-2011, 01:22 PM

Obviously, playing the defending champs brings with it a host of worries, not the least of which is Kobe. But, I tend to side with those who think that the Mavericks' biggest problem in this series will be the front line of the Lakers.

Is there ANY chance that Carlisle will play Chandler & Haywood together at some points in this series? I tend to doubt that he will do it, but I think he should.

I believe Tyson will hold down whoever he covers. But, the Lakers lineup at any given moment typically includes at least two big men who score. If the Mavericks go with the rotation to which we are accustomed, then Tyson MUST cover Bynum, when Bynum is playing. That leaves Dirk to play Gasol. Now, I agree with Chuck Barkley that NO ONE can cover Dirk, and that includes Pau. Having said that, I think Dirk has a really hard time covering Pau. I think that matchup will lead to a lot of high-percentage shots for Pau, and/or a lot of fouls for Dirk. Even if Dirk covers him better than I expect, Dirk will then be expending a lot of energy on defense, which does not bode well for the other end.

Why not throw out the following lineup for 10-15 minutes per game while the Lakers are playing two of their bigs?

1) Kidd/Terry/Barea
2) Marion
3) Dirk
4) Chandler
5) Haywood

I admit, this group would have a difficult time on the offensive end in halfcourt sets. I expect that we would have some turnovers, because the ballhandling would be suspect. However, I think if you go pick and roll with this lineup, your efficiency will be good enough, especially when you factor in how much you gain with this lineup in defense and rebounding. Chandler could REALLY bother Pau. Haywood can contain Bynum as well as anyone. Dirk can probably stay in front of Artest (mostly). Marion is our best bet on Kobe, and their point guards are relatively weak.

I'm not saying that this is a cure-all, and I don't think it would work for long stretches. But what do you think about mixing it in?

xrobx · 05-02-2011, 01:25 PM

only if you're playing nba 2k11

j0Shi · 05-02-2011, 01:26 PM

Are we already that desperate?

mavs777 · 05-02-2011, 01:26 PM

I personally don't think so, I would think if we had any thought of that we would have tried it earlier in the year and did not. But it brings up an interesting perspective, because Tyson matches up terribly with Bynum but matches up pretty good with Pau, while Haywood matches up best with Bynum

Underdog · 05-02-2011, 01:27 PM

No.

jthig32 · 05-02-2011, 01:47 PM

You realize you're asking three different people to play out of position in this lineup? Three different players to play positions they haven't played all year (or ever)?

There would be absolutely no spacing on offense, and while you could perhaps still run the pick and roll, the Lakers are much better equipped to defend the pick and roll when Artest or Odom are guarding Dirk, which is what would happen if Dirk were playing SF.

I have no doubt that it would work defensively and probably work very well. But the offset on the offensive side would be too great. I'm not that worried about Dirk vs Gasol. If the Lakers are going to Gasol that means that Kobe isn't shooting and Bynum isn't posting up Chandler and possibly drawing fouls. Dirk is big enough to not get bullied by Gasol and he's an elite defensive rebounder when he wants to be, so I'm not worried about Gasol killing him on the glass.

And on the offensive side, Gasol is who you want guarding Dirk. That is THE match up that you want on that side.

So...no.

Kante · 05-02-2011, 02:21 PM

If you need 1 stop at the end of the game you can go with Chandler on Gasol and Haywood on Bynum but not the scenario you displayed.

CapitanObvious · 05-02-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

only if you're playing nba 2k11

this

Kidd Karma · 05-02-2011, 02:31 PM

Interesting concept, but severely limits our offense. I'm with the side that say force them to matchup with us. Dirk gets Pau into foul trouble, they can still whip out Odom, or vice versa with Bynum.

bernardos70 · 05-02-2011, 03:47 PM

Maybe, and this is a big maybe, I could possibly see Kidd/whoever/Marion/Tyson/Haywood when Dirk is out of the game. But probably not.

LonghornDub · 05-02-2011, 03:56 PM

I'd say it's a 99% chance Chandler and Haywood are both in the starting lineup tonight. Book it.

Also, let's bench Dampier and start Devean George instead. It's the playoffs, after all.

mavsman · 05-02-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You realize you're asking three different people to play out of position in this lineup? Three different players to play positions they haven't played all year (or ever)?

I don't really like that lineup either, but actually it'd have to be only one player (Haywood) playing out of position offensively, while most the other patterns could stay intact. If you iso Dirk and have them earn their def rebounds for a couple of minutes, I could imagine it as a better weapon of surprise than the dreaded 3-guard-crap. But only in a very small dose.

jthig32 · 05-02-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsman

I don't really like that lineup either, but actually it'd have to be only one player (Haywood) playing out of position offensively, while most the other patterns could stay intact. If you iso Dirk and have them earn their def rebounds for a couple of minutes, I could imagine it as a better weapon of surprise than the dreaded 3-guard-crap. But only in a very small dose.

Marion and Dirk would also be playing out of position. They would be guarded by different players and would have different positions within the offense.

And the extra big man would have to find somewhere to stand that would create spacing within the offense. There is absolutely no chance in hell that it would be better offensively than the three guard lineup, which is actually a very potent offensive lineup. Its problems are on the other end.

sefant77 · 05-02-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I'd say it's a 99% chance Chandler and Haywood are both in the starting lineup tonight. Book it.

Also, let's bench Dampier and start Devean George instead. It's the playoffs, after all.

This. I think we should go smalll, worked for the Warriors in 2007 against the #1 seed!!!!111111

DULLAH · 05-02-2011, 08:14 PM

Play Mahinmi more in this series!!!
& Look at the Matrix's rebounding numbers here for the solution:

(always have Marion on the floor crashing the boards when Dirk is out there)

Year RPG PPG

00-01 10.7 17.3
01-02 9.9 19.1
02-03 9.5 21.2
03-04 9.3 19.0
04-05 11.3 19.4
05-06 11.8 21.8
06-07 9.8 17.5
07-08 9.9 15.8
07-08 11.2 14.3
07-08 10.2 15.4

Look at those rebounding averages by the matrix.........we could use some of that this series !!!

DULLAH · 05-02-2011, 08:17 PM

Plus, I want Chandler on Gasol and Haywood/Mahinmi on Bynum at any time we have two centers on the floor. Or play zone if Dirk is out there with them in a 3 seven footers lineup.

mavsman · 05-02-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

They would be guarded by different players and would have different positions within the offense.

But that's exactly what you want in that scenario. You want those occasions where Dirk can abuse Artest or pass it to TC who's being guarded by Gasol. Forget about spacing, it's only about a few possessions from time to time and to use it as a weapon. I really think it could work. Then bring in Jet or Roddy for Wood and completely change their defensive outlook.

jthig32 · 05-02-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsman

But that's exactly what you want in that scenario. You want those occasions where Dirk can abuse Artest or pass it to TC who's being guarded by Gasol. Forget about spacing, it's only about a few possessions from time to time and to use it as a weapon. I really think it could work. Then bring in Jet or Roddy for Wood and completely change their defensive outlook.

Why would you want to give the ball to TC to work against Gasol? TC isn't capable of creating offense with the ball.

And why would you want Artest on Dirk? It's not a terrible match up but it's certainly not such an ideal match up that you'd want to make all of the other sacrifices.

Besides, Dirk would face constant double teams. You'd have three players on the court that literally can't hit a jump shot to save their lives. How on earth can you argue that this would work?

Why am I even arguing about this?

Windmill360 · 05-02-2011, 08:45 PM

No it's a stupid idea.

sbjensen · 05-02-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Why would you want to give the ball to TC to work against Gasol? TC isn't capable of creating offense with the ball.

And why would you want Artest on Dirk? It's not a terrible match up but it's certainly not such an ideal match up that you'd want to make all of the other sacrifices.

Besides, Dirk would face constant double teams. You'd have three players on the court that literally can't hit a jump shot to save their lives. How on earth can you argue that this would work?

Why am I even arguing about this?

I agree that it's stupid to argue that this lineup would be effective offensively. But it would be the best way to match up against the Lakers defensively, and it would be a monstrously effective rebounding lineup. If Gasol is abusing Dirk and/or Bynum is abusing Chandler and/or we're getting killed on the boards, then I think it should be a valid option as a change of pace. I predict that all three of those things will happen in this series -- maybe on a regular basis. Hopefully, I'm as wrong about that as you guys think I am about the double-center lineup.

mpb319 · 05-03-2011, 07:07 AM

I dont think Rick will ever do that...unless we are really getting punished and all is pretty much lost.
Like putting Corey Brewer in last night. Brilliant!..just want to know where he was earlier.
Seems like Rick pulled a rabbit out of his hat and accidentally did the right thing.

About the BIG lineup...it would only possibly work offensively if you took out Marion and inserted Jet. Let Kidd guard Kobe on the other end. That way it woud not be Dirk and 4 non-scorers.