The six man game

[OutletPass]

Tonight's stats, as we get healthier...and the rotation gets tighter:

Dallas MIN FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA OR DR TOT A PF ST TO BL PTS
A.Walker 37 9 21 5 11 0 0 2 10 12 8 5 0 4 2 23
A.Jamison 35 10 14 0 1 2 4 7 2 9 1 3 1 2 1 22
D.Nowitzki 47 9 22 3 6 10 10 1 13 14 5 4 3 0 3 31
M.Finley 38 3 15 2 6 4 6 2 2 4 1 1 1 2 3 12
S.Nash 35 5 9 3 4 1 1 0 2 2 11 3 0 3 0 14
J.Howard 34 4 11 0 1 1 2 2 2 4 2 2 1 2 2 9

Six guys played over 30 minutes...
3 Guys scored over 20 points.
5 guys had over 10 points.

And, unfortunately, that doesn't mean much. We beat the Lakers and display the same sort of stats...
And go into a tailspin. One game doesn;t mean much....in the course of 82 games...just look at the numbers vs. the Clips.

Wish for the best...but be realistic. We've all been Punk'd by the numbers.

[LRB]

OP I totally agree. We can play great one game and go out and lose the next 2. We haven't shown a lot of consistency this year. And I'm really worried because SA seems to really have it together. Winning 11 in a row and counting, if we don't jell soon we can forget about the Division title this year.

[Kenny_01]

Hopefully our rotation consists mainly of that 6 plus Fortson when need be.

[ReDIRKulous]

Originally posted by: LRB
OP I totally agree. We can play great one game and go out and lose the next 2. We haven't shown a lot of consistency this year. And I'm really worried because SA seems to really have it together. Winning 11 in a row and counting, if we don't jell soon we can forget about the Division title this year.

Something to remember is that we stole HCA in game one of the WCF against San Antonio before... maybe we can do it again. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[seelenjaeger]

Let´s rephrase it - we´ve found a playoff rotation, but we´re nowhere close a regular season one.

[dude1394]

However after the lakers game, finley goes down for games and dirk re-tweeks his ankle. You could in a lot of respects just talk about this team getting BACK to where they were.

[Chiwas]

To win against the Kings without Webber and Stojakovic doesn't mean much.

If Dirk doesn't play well -and motivated as last game- , this team is worth almost nothing, and less with long 7 games playoffs series.

For me, the only surprising win has been against LA in LA. But don't cheat (?) ourselves, two and three years ago, when the Mavs weren't thought as a real contender, we were defeating every big team. But last season, we weren't. Maybe this season it is starting to happen again.

[jayC]

It means that the mavs roster is better suited for playoff basketball. And it also means that the mavs get up for big games and sometimes coast against average competition. And that the mavs roster was overhauled in the offseason consistent play will take sometime

[Hitman]

I think this team needs to go with the "big 5" starting lineup, and add JHo, Fortson, Bradley and Najera as regular role players so this team can find some type of rhythm and continuity in playing together.

We shall see if that happens.

[kg_veteran]

Hitman, I agree, except I don't want to see Eddie forced to try and play center, and I think we'll have to play another guard some minutes, be it Delk or Daniels, even if Walker is going to effectively be the backup point guard (something that still scares me quite a bit).

[Fidel]

Is it just me or does our bench look really thin right now? Pretty much everyone thought we were to be one of the deeper teams this year. But as it looks now that´s not the case.

Delk and Best do not perform as expected. You can´t really expect anything from Daniels or Steffanson. Wich leaves us with Howard as a backup guard and he´s a rookie and more of a SF anyways.

The frontcourt depth isn´t looking any better. We are just creating a little deepnes here by not starting Jamison. But Jamison is playing nearly starter minutes. So that leaves us with Fortson, Najera and Bradley coming of the bench. Bradley isn´t healthy, Najera can´t play anymore so basicly we´ve got Fortson right now which is not what I´d consider being deep.

The six man rotation against Sac doesn´t mean that the team is better suited for the playoffs like someone suggested (even though yeah you can get way with such a tight rotation in the playoffs better then in the regular season). IMO it means more then anything that Nellie realises that most of his offseason moves and plans didn´t work out so well. Like using Fortson and Najera at center. Or using Delk and Best to replace NVE as the main backup at both guard spots. After 4 losses in a row Nellies back was against the wall and he had to use a 6 man rotation to barely beat Sac without Webber and Peja. IMO that´s not a good sign at all. Like I said you can get away with that for the stretch of the playoffs (though one of the six guys is a rookie, and I´m not sure you can really count on him on a consistent basis, especially after his first 82 games of NBA ball. And six man really is too tight even for the playoffs). But if we are to rely on a six man rotation to win games in the regular season we are in trouble.

I took a look at the numbers and they are very telling IMO.

Our 7th guys is Delk and he´s just averaging 16.7 minutes. That would be good for the 10th rotation spot on the Spurs, for the 9th on the Lakers (without Fox) and for the 9th on the Kings (without Webber).

We have 7 guys averaging 15+ minutes.
The Spurs do have 10 guys averaging 15+ minutes.
The Lakers do have 9 guys averaging 15+ minutes (without Fox).
The Kings do have 9 guys averaging 15+ minutes (without Webber).

[OutletPass]

Great, great post Fidel...

Oops, we did it again tonight.

Six guys with over 25 minutes and all six with over 13 points...

Fortson and Delk had a combined 10 minutes. No one else played.

Back in a minute with the boxscore.

[OutletPass]

Howard (43) 6-12, 3-3, 15pts, 6rbs, 5to's, 2stls
Walker (38) 6-17, 1-3, 13pts, 10rbs, 8as, 2to's, 2stls, 2blks
Dirk (42) 6-10, 2-3, 4-4, 18pts, 17rbs, 4as, 4to's
Finley (42) 9-15, 5-7, 1-2, 24pts, 3rbs, 1to, 1blk
Nash (40) 6-14, 3-6, 1-1, 16pts, 4rbs, 10as, 2to's, 2stls
Jamison (25) 5-14, 0-1, 4-4, 14pts, 8rbs, 1as, 1to

Delk (8) 2-4, 4pts, 1as, 2to's, 1stl
Fortson (2)

--The tight rotation is going to get us back into a much better reg season record.
-- but will our guys be dead come the playoffs.

--I forget who made the point. but with the injuries, our bench isn't looking so damn deep right now. With a nod to Brittany, Oops I did it again. It was Fidel.

[Max Power]

As I said in the game thread - I like the tight rotation. We are force feeding our stars a familiarity with each other. I can't imagine that Nellie will do it more than 6-8 games - just long enough to get the stars used to each others game. We're doing it now because the stars are all finally healthy.

I'm thinking of it as a particulary brutal training camp.

[Fidel]

Thanks OP, and thanks for digging it up.

If this continues we´ll be down to just 6 guys with 15+ minutes soon. And this is not good.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by: Max Power
As I said in the game thread - I like the tight rotation. We are force feeding our stars a familiarity with each other. I can't imagine that Nellie will do it more than 6-8 games - just long enough to get the stars used to each others game. We're doing it now because the stars are all finally healthy.

I'm thinking of it as a particulary brutal training camp.

Max if it was a simple luxury I´d be ok with it too. Give them a couple games to gel. But IMO the biggest reason for playing so tight is that we don´t really have any alternatives. What are you gonna do after your 6-8 games. Play Best or Delk or Najera or Fortson for extended periods of time? If we do that we are in trouble, cause well these guys can´t play.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: Fidel

Max if it was a simple luxury I´d be ok with it too. Give them a couple games to gel. But IMO the biggest reason for playing so tight is that we don´t really have any alternatives. What are you gonna do after your 6-8 games. Play Best or Delk or Najera or Fortson for extended periods of time? If we do that we are in trouble, cause well these guys can´t play.

They can all play acceptable basketball if the team was operating like a well-oiled machine. IMO the problem has been that the Mavs don't have any consistency among the big 6 due to injuries. IMO Nellie is forcing them to get used to each other so when Nellie goes back to a normal rotation, at least four of the players on the court will be skilled at playing with each other. Heck Nellie might go six deep for for 6 games then add another player to the mix (Bradley maybe). Those seven play the minutes for 6-8 games then Nellie adds another.

[Fidel]

Max I´m trying not to be too negative so I hope you are right.

The thing that makes me wonder though is that the other top teams who had injuries too or where missing players for different reasons still found a way to give 9-10 guys 15+ minutes while winning games. And you could use the injury argument just the other way around. With all of our injuries doesn´t that make it look even more strange that we do have so few guys averaging significant minutes? I mean Fin was out as was Dirk and still Delk and Best and Fortson and Najera couldn´t get to play? Now everyone is back (except Bradley) and now we expect the bench guys to somehow find some more minutes? I don´t see it happening.

[OutletPass]

Injuries, and new players, each year, are just a fact of the NBA.

IMO, this has been one of the craziest years in recent memory for team turnover and injuries. We can make a mini All-Star team out of those who started the season on the IL. Brand, Mashburn, CWebb, Ray Allen, TMurph...and it goes on and on...Kandi, Dirk, Fin, Malone...and many more guys than we can talk about...even AI has been down.

I've got to go with Fidel here. He made a great point...while others are squabbling about Walker vs. Dirk...Fidel said it.

Our bench has been exposed. That's the point of all this. Best and Delk can't give us anything. Fortson is just what he is...a real limited guy. Let's just go back to the start of the season, and to each of you who were saying that he was a double-double steal...Do you want to reappraise that and understand what MFF and I said all along.

Ok..that's 3 on our bench who aren't doing a thing. Add in Shawn and Najera. And Marquis...who showed a bit early. And that's six. So, now six play and six don't or can't. And that's what we have.

At this rate, with all of their minutes, our top six will be tired or hurt come April.

I haven't seen a post lately about Nash's minutes..and great concern about that...and i'm wondering why. He's a year older this year and played all last summer. So why isn't it this year's concern as it was last year.

[dude1394]

Nellie doesn't have much choice for one thing we are in 5th or 6th place and he spurs have been on a hot streak, getting away from us. As long as everyone in the west was bunched he could do it, now he can't afford to wait.

I think he IS trying to force-feed everyone but also bradley, najera are really hurt. Best is a walking disaster it seems and nellie just can't figure out what to do with fortson...

Delk shoots too much and isn't a very good pg at all...

Yikes, issues everywhere...!!

[Chiwas]

The theory of mu compagre is working. Last night Daniels have some minutes cause Howard was hit and benched, but played well.

It seems the 4 game losing streak worked as a preseason for the small group.

I saw the team clicking better for long periods against the Bucks. There are still bad moments -3rd quarter for example of that game- but it has seemed in this 3 games winning streak, that there could be better future than the predicted.

If the Mavs catch up the Spurs and win the division, I'll kiss Nelson again -through one of the dancers as last season- and forgive all the hardship.

[Simon2]

Once BRadley comes back, it will be a 7 man rotation. Is that enough?

[sike]

Originally posted by: Simon2
Once BRadley comes back, it will be a 7 man rotation. Is that enough?

Lets hope Bradley can come in an contribute soon....

it should not have to be enough.....but if only seven guys get major minutes that would be fine!

[V]

Originally posted by: sike

Lets hope Bradley can come in an contribute soon....

it should not have to be enough.....but if only seven guys get major minutes that would be fine!

Don't you think the Mavs need to go at least 8 deep in a regular rotation this time of the year? Best needs to contribute 14-16 quality minutes... Bradley 15-20... anything less & our guys may be running on E before they're ready to hang up their sneakers for the summer....

[Simon2]

If not Bradley, it has to be Fortson. If not Best, it should be Delk.

[OutletPass]

And, if not them, then who ? Eddie's hurt. MDaniel's is a rookie...TAW is paid by the Mavs insurance company and Stefannson is a blonde. Until Shawn can play, it's six and done.

Fortson (MFF and I told you so), Best (I told you so, over the great EvilMan's sponsorship) and Delk (more Boston stuff) = Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward and Howard Eisley....

If anyone here really knows that Sabonis will be signed for the payoff, then post what you know. I don't believe that he's any answer if he is to be signed. But if you've got SOMETHING, post it for all.

Failing that, the Mavs are only 6 or 7 deep. And without a 5.

In this injury filled year, if someone in the top 6 goes down....in the frontcourt or in the backcourt, how do the Mavs cope ?

[sike]

I haven't seen a post lately about Nash's minutes..and great concern about that...and i'm wondering why. He's a year older this year and played all last summer. So why isn't it this year's concern as it was last year.

this has been something I've been ponderin' as of late...

With all this six man talk, some have forgotten that the Mavericks have a point who has a history of wearing down toward the end of the season....
34-37 minutes a game is probably enough for Steve..

so what do you choose?
more victories now or a more healthy point guard in the playoffs? I think we all go with Steve being healthy for the strech run and playoffs....so who will step to fill those minutes, is that not where the supposed point forward comes in...or the supposed back up point comes in? Come on Nellie, dont screw Mav fans and Steve this year....rest him!

[grndmstr_c]

Steve will need to be rested later in the season. If he's averaging much more than 32 mpg after the all-star break that will not be a good sign, but right now I'm in favor of playing him more, and the tightening of the rotation in general. This team's best players have to mesh and find a group identity or it won't matter how fresh Steve is for the playoffs. Make no mistake, though, that we will need Daniels, Delk, or Best to step it up and spell him later on.

[sike]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Steve will need to be rested later in the season. If he's averaging much more than 32 mpg after the all-star break that will not be a good sign, but right now I'm in favor of playing him more, and the tightening of the rotation in general. This team's best players have to mesh and find a group identity or it won't matter how fresh Steve is for the playoffs. Make no mistake, though, that we will need Daniels, Delk, or Best to step it up and spell him later on.

he speaks wise words....