Things to hate about Kidd - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Simon2 · 07-30-2004, 02:01 PM

If Cuban is serious about winning, he will bring Kidd in. The team won't go anywhere with the point guards on the team. I would like to bring Kidd in but here are the things I really hate about Kidd.

Poor long distance shooting.
Bad contract for an aging pg
Unknown status of knee injury
His kissing the basket during every free throw. Yuck!
Can't take over a game during crunch time
A wife beater
He will turn the Mavs 360 degrees
It rained on his parade but he didn't know he had a parade.
Basketball IQ of the Mavs goes from 150 to 75

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 02:07 PM

alright, the purpose of this is...?

LRB · 07-30-2004, 02:07 PM

Kidd also brings:

one of the best rebounding guards in the game
one of the best defenders at his position
a great penetrator
a great passer
makes players around him better
great in the open court which the Mavs love to play
doesn't shoot much from long distance like Walker for example
great respect from the refs
unselfish play

Sure kidd has warts, more than a few in fact. However that hasn't stopped him from making 1st team NBA. He's not perfect for the Mavs, but if we could get him for say Walker and L8 for Kidd and Mourning that would be an absolute steal. Even if we had to give up more, it would still be a good deal.

MikeB · 07-30-2004, 02:13 PM

I don't see how Kidd lowers the Mavs IQ.
He can and does take over games late...but the difference here is he will have shooters to pass to.
Turn us 360? From a team that looks good in the regular season to a team that can win in the playoffs...ok...I'll take that!

LRB · 07-30-2004, 02:19 PM

Quote:

He will turn the Mavs 360 degrees

WTH???? 360 is a complete circle. What do you mean by that perchance?

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 02:20 PM

Kidd said that on draft night...it's a legendary quote

LRB · 07-30-2004, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing
Kidd said that on draft night...it's a legendary quote

Do you realize how many times I've slept since then? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

chumdawg · 07-30-2004, 02:28 PM

I never will forget that one game against Houston where Kidd went crazy. Well, but I'm shady with the details. Anyone know the game I am talking about? I think we made up 9 points in the last minute, or something crazy like that. Perhaps it went to overtime even. I think Kidd had some amazing triple double. Anyone remember more details than I?

aexchange · 07-30-2004, 02:38 PM

it was 1995, kidd's rookie season. it was a double or triple OT game with kidd and the legendary 3 J's. it ranks right up there as one of my favorite games of all time.

grndmstr_c · 07-30-2004, 02:48 PM

I remember that one. I think he went for like 38 points and closed out regulation with a Reggie Miller-like flurry, didn't he.

vinnieponte · 07-30-2004, 03:17 PM

I find few if any things to hate about Kidd! He is what we need, and yes he has a good 5+ years and could bring more energy than what nash brought to us. I see us as a #1 choice for kidd if everything goes as expected in the next few days with trade demands. But hey we can always start with a rookie point guard, lmao

mavsfan4life7 · 07-30-2004, 03:24 PM

ill agree that kidd is a great player, but do you actually think that cuban would betray nash? i dont think he would. and to tell you the truth, i think we would have a better chance to win the championship with nash then with kidd.

vinnieponte · 07-30-2004, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsfan4life7
ill agree that kidd is a great player, but do you actually think that cuban would betray nash? i dont think he would. and to tell you the truth, i think we would have a better chance to win the championship with nash then with kidd.

You have a great point, and the fact that he let nash go is the only doubt I would have that anything would happen for Kidd. Now on the other hand, maybe he has had 2nd thoughts on this team after seeing the problems with available pg's. Who knows??

PlanoJ · 07-30-2004, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsfan4life7
ill agree that kidd is a great player, but do you actually think that cuban would betray nash? i dont think he would. and to tell you the truth, i think we would have a better chance to win the championship with nash then with kidd.

What? How is bringing in Kidd betraying Nash. He's gone. And I think the difference in what we are willing to pay can easily be justified by the fact that Kidd plays D. Nash was a turnstile to the basket. Kidd is a first team NBA player and I think first team defense.

LRB · 07-30-2004, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsfan4life7
ill agree that kidd is a great player, but do you actually think that cuban would betray nash? i dont think he would. and to tell you the truth, i think we would have a better chance to win the championship with nash then with kidd.

Cubes owes no loyalty to Nash now that he's gone. Cubes does owe a loyalty to the fans to but the very best team on the floor that he can.

Nash is a good player, even a great player maybe on the offensive side of the ball. He sucks wind when it comes to D. Nash can shoot rings around Kidd, but we have other shooters. Overall I think that we'd have a better chance with Kidd than Nash becasue of Kidd's rebounding and D.

FreshJive · 07-30-2004, 04:15 PM

You guys are seriously overating Kidd on the defensive side of the ball. He's good at playing the passing lanes, but he can also be a turnstyle as Nash has proven several times. Two years from now Kidd will be just as bad as Nash at being taken off the dribble. Kidd doesn't have an old mans game IMO.

LRB · 07-30-2004, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
You guys are seriously overating Kidd on the defensive side of the ball. He's good at playing the passing lanes, but he can also be a turnstyle as Nash has proven several times. Two years from now Kidd will be just as bad as Nash at being taken off the dribble. Kidd doesn't have an old mans game IMO.

And then Devin Harris could step in and take over. If we get a championship along the way, I guess we could put up with that. [img]i/expressions/moon.gif[/img]

capitalcity · 07-30-2004, 04:27 PM

Didn't Tony Parker outplay/or neutralize Kidd in the finals 2 years ago?

poohrichardson · 07-30-2004, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Simon2
If Cuban is serious about winning, he will bring Kidd in. The team won't go anywhere with the point guards on the team. I would like to bring Kidd in but here are the things I really hate about Kidd.

Poor long distance shooting.
Bad contract for an aging pg
Unknown status of knee injury
His kissing the basket during every free throw. Yuck!
Can't take over a game during crunch time
A wife beater
He will turn the Mavs 360 degrees
It rained on his parade but he didn't know he had a parade.
Basketball IQ of the Mavs goes from 150 to 75

1.) Dallas doesn't need a point guard that shoots well outside.. we don't need one that shoots that much at all. Kidd is forced into a scoring role in Jersey because they're a very shallow team. Bring him here and his percentages will go up because there will be ZERO pressure on him to score. He'll get his points and more importantly, he'll find Dirk, Fin, and Daniels for easy buckets. THAT'S what Kidd brings to this Dallas team.
2.) Cubes can afford a bad contract, especially for a guy that will be able to compete for another 5 or 6 years.
3.) I'll take Kidd on a hobbled knee over a healthy Nash any day, sad to say. Kidd will still be stealthy on defense and will still be able to distribute the ball. Not to mention we're potentially 3 PGs deep.
4.) He makes them.. who cares what path the ball takes on the way to the rack if it goes in?
5.) As I said earlier.. he doesn't need to be a scorer and he's still far and away the best point guard in the game. Dirk and Finley can take over.
6.) His wife's hot as hell.. but she's annoying. Not to mention how completely relevant that is to Kidd's game.
7.) No comment.
8.) Ditto.
9.) That doesn't make any sense. We have two rookies at point in Daniels and Harris. You don't think taking lessons from the greatest in the game right now is going to help them? Get real! Jason Kidd can help these boys more than Nelly can. He ups the IQ of this team by immeasurable amounts.

Chiwas · 07-30-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Jason Kidd can help these boys more than Nelly can.

I totally second this.

But I still hate the kiss.

FreshJive · 07-30-2004, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
You guys are seriously overating Kidd on the defensive side of the ball. He's good at playing the passing lanes, but he can also be a turnstyle as Nash has proven several times. Two years from now Kidd will be just as bad as Nash at being taken off the dribble. Kidd doesn't have an old mans game IMO.

And then Devin Harris could step in and take over. If we get a championship along the way, I guess we could put up with that. [img]i/expressions/moon.gif[/img]

Well I don't think Kidd automatically gives us a championship by any means, but if that were the scenario then I wouldn't complain.

I am not saying that aquiring Kidd would doom the team's future by any means. Just as I don't think that resigning Nash would have doomed the team's future. I just see Kidd as a small short term upgrade over Nash with the same long term problems.

LRB · 07-30-2004, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: capitalcity
Didn't Tony Parker outplay/or neutralize Kidd in the finals 2 years ago?

Well if you consider that Kidd has little offensive help, no HOF big men, and Parker has MVP Duncan to throw the ball to, and 2 HOF big men to watch his back, yeah, you might say that. Of course if you didn't consider the other factors you're a basketball moron.

Simon2 · 07-30-2004, 05:03 PM

Just more discussion on Kidd. I was wondering how people would react with a list like this. Would they defend him or add to the bashing?

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing
alright, the purpose of this is...?

Dirkenstien · 07-30-2004, 05:07 PM

If we could get Kidd for a fair price (Walker, Stack, and extra) then I am all for making a trade to acquire him. Not only is he a great leader on the court, but he would serve as a great mentor and teacher for our future p/g in Harris.

Simon2 · 07-30-2004, 05:08 PM

I'm really surprised you didn't know that. Like endtroducing said, its a legendary quote from Kidd.

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

He will turn the Mavs 360 degrees

WTH???? 360 is a complete circle. What do you mean by that perchance?

Simon2 · 07-30-2004, 05:10 PM

Here's another thought, will the coming of Kidd attract other free agents to come to Dallas? Dirk and Fin aren't really the best campaigners for "come play in Dallas"?

EricaLubarsky · 07-30-2004, 05:13 PM

I would not trade Harris, Dirk or Daniels for him
I would have to think hard before trading away Howard or Bradley for Kidd
I wouldn't have to give it much thought if we traded Finley, Stackhouse, Laettner, Najera, et al.

poohrichardson · 07-30-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I would not trade Harris, Dirk or Daniels for him
I would have to think hard before trading away Howard or Bradley for Kidd
I wouldn't have to give it much thought if we traded Finley, Stackhouse, Laettner, Najera, et al.

As the Shaq trade showed.. Dallas can't get marquee players with pieces. We need to throw some names around too.

You're telling me that you wouldn't trade Bradley, Stack, and Laettner to Jersey for Kidd? That's ridiculous. Bradley is marginally productive, Stack is a ballhog, and Laettner's been playing like a journeyman his entire career.

Kidd... is the best PG in the game.

EricaLubarsky · 07-30-2004, 05:39 PM

Kidd is old, has a rediculously long contract and is in poor health. New Jersey is also not in a position to demand anything because Kidd is pissed off, there are rifts in the franchise and the management is looking to cut salary

poohrichardson · 07-30-2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Kidd is old, has a rediculously long contract and is in poor health. New Jersey is also not in a position to demand anything because Kidd is pissed off, there are rifts in the franchise and the management is looking to cut salary

Kidd is 31. He's not 600 years old. He still has at least 3 or 4 good years of basketball in him. Our strongest run will have happened by then. Not to mention Harris will be ready in 3 years.

Jersey isn't in a position to demand? How does that work against us? They'll take players with expiring contracts to cut space.

We're in a good position to upgrade from Nash and shed a lot of dead weight on our roster. What's with all the hostility?

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Kidd is old, has a rediculously long contract and is in poor health. New Jersey is also not in a position to demand anything because Kidd is pissed off, there are rifts in the franchise and the management is looking to cut salary

you're riding the shit out of his knee injury, aren't you? he's going to be fine.

and god, if you had the chance to get him for fucking shawn bradley and josh howard, you wouldn't do it? wow.

EricaLubarsky · 07-30-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

What's with all the hostility?

Where did you see the hostility?

Quote:

He still has at least 3 or 4 good years of basketball in him.

Then what do we do 5 seasons from now?

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 05:47 PM

um...hello. daniels, howard, harris, dirk....

poohrichardson · 07-30-2004, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

What's with all the hostility?

Where did you see the hostility?

Quote:

He still has at least 3 or 4 good years of basketball in him.

Then what do we do 5 seasons from now?

Worry about that in 4 years. Seriously! Give that bullshit a rest! Dirk's prime will be past in 5 years! In 5 years, Dallas is going to be completely different than we are now.

Evilmav2 · 07-30-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

it was 1995, kidd's rookie season. it was a double or triple OT game with kidd and the legendary 3 J's. it ranks right up there as one of my favorite games of all time.

Yeah, Jimmy Jackson was injured and Hakeem wasn't playing, but that was one of the most amazing games I have ever seen. The game went to triple OT, the Mavs got the win, and Kidd got an incredible triple double that really helped to put him into the rookie of the year running with Grant Hill (as well as all of the other triple doubles he got that Spring).

EricaLubarsky · 07-30-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing

you're riding the s--t out of his knee injury, aren't you? he's going to be fine.

Thanks doctor end.

Quote:

and god, if you had the chance to get him for f--king shawn bradley and josh howard, you wouldn't do it? wow.

Where did I say I wouldnt do it? I just said I would have to think about it. Offer less and work up to Howard. Howard is a sophomore- the same year as Tayshawn Prince when he rocked the NBA last season. We shouldn't trade him (and youth) unless we absolutely have to.

EricaLubarsky · 07-30-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing
um...hello. daniels, howard, harris, dirk....

While paying Kidd max money. We aren't even sure how his surgery is going to go.

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing

you're riding the s--t out of his knee injury, aren't you? he's going to be fine.

Thanks doctor end.

Quote:

and god, if you had the chance to get him for f--king shawn bradley and josh howard, you wouldn't do it? wow.

Where did I say I wouldnt do it? I just said I would have to think about it. Offer less and work up to Howard. Howard is a sophomore- the same year as Tayshawn Prince when he rocked the NBA last season. We shouldn't trade him (and youth) unless we absolutely have to.

howard is never going to be a player like prince...prince is a lockdown defender who can't be relied on to score. howard's an athletic swingman that can take to the rim...he can defend, yeah, but nowhere near the level tayshaun does.

poohrichardson · 07-30-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing

you're riding the s--t out of his knee injury, aren't you? he's going to be fine.

Thanks doctor end.

Quote:

and god, if you had the chance to get him for f--king shawn bradley and josh howard, you wouldn't do it? wow.

Where did I say I wouldnt do it? I just said I would have to think about it. Offer less and work up to Howard. Howard is a sophomore- the same year as Tayshawn Prince when he rocked the NBA last season. We shouldn't trade him (and youth) unless we absolutely have to.

I would trade a guy now that hasn't proven anything for a top 5 all-time point guard very close to his prime any day of the week.

endtroducing · 07-30-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: endtroducing
um...hello. daniels, howard, harris, dirk....

While paying Kidd max money. We aren't even sure how his surgery is going to go.

we aren't even sure if the NBA will EXIST five years from now! they could have a lockout next year and the league could crumble. no one can prognosticate that far in the future...especially in a sport like basketball