McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad. Typical republican crap as usual

[reeds]

WASHINGTON - Republican Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry (news - web sites)'s military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.


The White House declined.


"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush (news - web sites).


The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.


"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.


The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.


"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."


Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."


McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."


White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.


"The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law," McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.


In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.


McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because "it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal."


"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."


Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain's "right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not."


McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.


The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day — Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying.





They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure fabrication."

The general counsel for the Kerry campaign and the Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) sent television stations a letter asking them not to run the ad because it is "an inflammatory, outrageous lie" by people purporting to have served with Kerry.

Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.

___

[reeds]

"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."

What a joke- these morons were not even on the boat...I am sure his crew would all go to the convention and LIE for Mr. Kerry- cant you morons do better than this???Pure lack of NO class from the right- the right who takes pride in its party, who claims they are the side with values..hahaha what a joke

[chumdawg]

It is my understanding that the swift boats worked in teams--that no boat was an island, if you will. I see no credibility in the claim that only the man who were in Kerry's boat know anything at all about what kind of soldier he was.

So how is it okay for Kerry's guys to take the stage at the national convention in support of him, but for the rest of the guys to have no voice in the matter, even in a campaign ad?

I suspect that this issue may very well prove to be Kerry's undoing. Not because of what kind of soldier he really and truly was. Rather, because he himself took the initiative in claiming to be something that maybe he wasn't after all.

I maintain that it was a major error to spend so much convention time portraying Kerry as a war hero, for several reasons. This is only one reason, but it may end up being the most damning.

[reeds]

"So how is it okay for Kerry's guys to take the stage at the national convention in support of him, but for the rest of the guys to have no voice in the matter, even in a campaign ad?"

SIMPLE- the guys on stage at the convention were in Kerry's FREAKING boat.

[FishForLunch]

Screw McCain and Kerry they dont speak for all Vietnam veterans. McCain was not in the same unit also so he needs to shut his freaking mouth. So Kerry is suggesting that he worked alone and without the support of his unit?

Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain's ''right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not.''

[reeds]

"Screw McCain and Kerry"

Ya, I suppose your right..after all, its not like they served our country or anything...its not like they have purple hearts, bronze and silvers stars, POWs....screw em... How bout we listen to the republican party, their resume must be loaded with war veterans isnt it?? oh thats right, we are talking about Bush....I forgot...ya....screw McCain and Kerry

[chumdawg]

Reeds, is it your claim that NO ONE who was not on Kerry's boat is qualified to make observations about Kerry's behavior? What about his superior officer? He don't know shit about Kerry and his boat, because he never stepped foot on it? Is that really what you claim?

[LRB]

Reeds did you ever think that those guys weren't in Kerry's boat because they did everything that they could from serving with such an inept officer as viewed through their eyes. Further more none of those men in Kerry's boat were his peers, nor were any his superiors. Certainly they are entitled to their opinion, as is John McCain. However the vast majority of those who served in Vietnam with Kerry, have a vastly different opinion from those 2 lone crew members who have vocally supported him. While that isn't and shouldn't be the final word on whether Kerry is a fit candidate for President, it certainly does not work in his favor and raises a valid question to his capabilities as a military leader. His anti-war, and in many people's eyes anti-military, activities after Vietnam certainly would do no wonders for our troops morale. It could only be worse if Hanoi Jane Fonda or Michael I'm Full of Crap Moore were appointed Commander In Chief.

[dude1394]

Maybe Kerry should file a lawsuit or something to try and stop their freedom of speech!!

[Mavdog]

McCain's point (which Hoffman et al seem to miss) is to rehash Vietnam isn't productive when there are substantive, important issues which need to be discussed. Whether some guys who may or may not have known Kerry over 30 years ago like him is inconsequential.

McCain is right.

The RNC should listen to him. This could very well bite Dubya in the butt.

[reeds]

"Reeds, is it your claim that NO ONE who was not on Kerry's boat is qualified to make observations about Kerry's behavior? What about his superior officer? He don't know shit about Kerry and his boat, because he never stepped foot on it? Is that really what you claim? "

Well, I dont have experience in serving our country fighting a war (neither does bush), but anway..One would assume a superior officer doesnt follow around every person in his unit/platoon every minute of every day- do they? And I am also going to assume the boats arent all magnetically set to follow each other thru every canal/waterway in Vietnam....I think that would be a safe assumption? With that being said- YES, I feel the most qualified to give a report on Kerry are the crew in his BOAT- period..

[dude1394]

I would imagine that the RNC has no more control over these guys than Terry McCAuliffe has over the maggot moore. Or moveon.org..

McCains is right, kerry really shouldn't be re-hashing a war that he protested and committed war crimes in. But he doesn't have much else to go on.

[MavKikiNYC]

Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."

Can anyone dredge up those comments by McCain where he suggested that Kerry and Edwards (and McCauliff, and Dean, and Al Gore, and the Clintons, and Nancy Pelosi and all the 'braintrust' of the Dim-o-cratic Party) condemn and disavow the lies by Michael Moore?

[dude1394]

McCain is really weird isn't he. I suspect he would make a horrible president in the mold of jimmah.. He's sort of a metro-conservative I guess. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Chiwas]

It seems also Bush's advisors are weird....in fact I think are smart enough to declare that they wouldn't question Kerry's service.



NYT's
Anti-Kerry Ad Is Condemned by McCain
By JIM RUTENBERG

Published: August 6, 2004


ASHINGTON, Aug. 5 - Senator John McCain on Thursday repudiated a new advertisement accusing Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts of lying about his Vietnam War record and called on the President Bush to do the same.

At the same time the Democratic Party said three television stations had agreed to its request to cease showing the advertisement.

"I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad,'' The Associated Press quoted Mr. McCain, Republican of Arizona and a Vietnam War veteran, as saying.

Mr. Bush's campaign did not do so, but Nicolle Devenish, Mr. Bush's campaign communications director, said, "We have never and will never question John Kerry's service.'' She did not address the content of the advertisement, from a group of anti-Kerry veterans calling themselves Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Advertisement


Mr. Kerry earned a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam.

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is one of the so-called 527 committees, named for a provision in the tax code that created them. Federal law allows such groups to raise unlimited donations and run advertisements so long as they do not expressly call for the election or defeat of a federal candidate. The Democrats have been far more reliant on such groups than the Republicans this election.

Asked in a briefing Thursday if the Bush campaign would repudiate the advertisement, the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan, said, "The president deplores all the unregulated soft money activity.''

In the advertisement, running on stations in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, men who served on Swift boats say Mr. Kerry "is no war hero'' and "lied to get his Bronze Star.'' The spot opens with some of the men saying "I served with John Kerry.'' None of the men served with Mr. Kerry on his Swift boat but claim to have served on boats that were often near his.

Lawyers for the Democratic National Committee on Thursday called upon television stations to refuse to run the advertisement. The party said it had persuaded at least 3 of the 27 stations carrying the spot to cease showing it until they could establish if it contained outright falsehoods.

[dude1394]

I'm not quite sure why you believe that bush should be more respective of kerry's service than kerry is of bush's??

[Lvubun1]

First of all, anybody who thinks this is a unbias group only out for the truth, LOL no actually nobody could be that native. This is nothing but a group of partisan hacks, who I would bet my ever-loving mother that they are funded by a big-wing rich republican. 5 out the 6 men(one is deased) who were actually ON Kerry's boat endorse him 110%, but we are to take the words of a group of guys, funded by the right, who admittedly never served with Kerry nor have any examples of "shotty leadership"? Nobody, I mean nobody, LEFT of Ann Coulter(90% of the country) will take this for more then a grain of salt. Then you got maybe the most respected politician on either side, John McCain outwardly condeming this attack. So you got all 5 of the alive men who are right next to Kerry in those boats, supporting him, McCain the most famous living war hero saying the ad is "dishonest and dishonorable" against a group of partisan, funded, vets, looking for 15 minutes, and not a single ONE ever served alongside Kerry. "Hello Mcfly, Knock, Knock" Please, please, donate to this group, get that ad playing everywhere, give them all you can check, money order, paypal, hell I might even throw them a couple dollars.

[MavKikiNYC]

Don't you tend to discount McCain's comments given that he is admittedly still bitter about being out-campaigned by Bush in South Carolina? Don't you tend to think he's unbiased himself vis a vis the Bush campaign?

Again, where is McCain's call for Kerry and Edwards to repudiate the lies being perpetuated against the Rebpulican party, against President Bush and Vice-President Cheney?

Where are McCain's comments decrying the Democratic party for benefiting from a skirting McCain's own campaign-finance reform laws by having Dim-o-cratic donors pour unprecedented amounts of money into Section 527 organizations?

Speak, Brother McCain, speak!

[FishForLunch]

Why are the liberal so up in arms about a 527 commitee, after all they are the ones that started it. So it is ok for left wing nut jobs like Soros to spend his money bashing Bush. Now the democrats are outraged, too bad. I did not know that Kerry was commanding a swift boat all by himself without support from the unit. Did he operate the swift boat as an independent unit?

As for your champion McCain he is a two faced POS too.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sen. John McCain attacked a group of Vietnam veterans on Thursday for their appearance in a campaign ad condemning Sen. John Kerry for betraying his fellow soldiers, calling the commercial "dishonest and dishonorable."

But McCain himself complained about Kerry-led anti-war protests when he was released from the infamous "Hanoi Hilton" 31 years ago.

In piece he wrote for the May 14, 1973, issue of U.S. News & World Report, the POW-turned-senator charged that testimony by Kerry and others before J. William Fulbright's Senate Foreign Relations Committee was "the most effective propaganda [my North Vietnamese captors] had to use against us."
"They used Senator Fulbright a great deal," McCain wrote - a reference to Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony that U.S. soldiers were committing war crimes in Vietnam as a matter of course.

He said Kerry political ally Sen. Ted Kennedy was "quoted again and again" by his jailers at the Hanoi Hilton.

"Clark Clifford was another [North Vietnamese] favorite," McCain told U.S. News, "right after he had been Secretary of Defense under President Johnson."

"When Ramsey Clark came over [my jailers] thought that was a great coup for their cause," he recalled. Months earlier, Sen. Kerry had appeared with Clark at the April 1971 Washington, D.C., anti-war protest that showcased his testimony before the Fulbright Committee.

"All through this period," McCain told U.S. News, his captors were "bombarding us with anti-war quotes from people in high places back in Washington. This was the most effective propaganda they had to use against us."

McCain biographer Paul Alexander chronicled the Arizona Republican's anger toward Kerry during their early careers in the Senate together.

"For many years McCain held Kerry's actions against him because, while McCain was a POW in the Hanoi Hilton, Kerry was organizing veterans back home in the U.S. to protest the war."

In his 2002 book, "Man of the People: The Life of John McCain," Alexander says that the two Vietnam vets finally reconciled in the early 1990s after having "a long - and at times emotional - conversation about Vietnam" during a mutual trip to Kuwait.

Later, Kerry sought to minimize the rift, telling Alexander: "Our differences occurred when we were kids, or at least close to being kids. It was a long time ago, and we both came back and realized that there were a lot of difficulties in the prosecution of that war."

[Dooby]

Originally posted by: reeds
"So how is it okay for Kerry's guys to take the stage at the national convention in support of him, but for the rest of the guys to have no voice in the matter, even in a campaign ad?"

SIMPLE- the guys on stage at the convention were in Kerry's FREAKING boat.

And see, here is the bit that bugs me. This isn't an aircraft carrier or a battleship or a destroyer. Or even a PT boat like the one Kennedy captained woth a crew of 17-20. This is a swiftboat. Captained by a junior grade leutenant with a total crew of 5 or 6, including the captain. The things cost about $75k a pop.

Tanks cost more. Tanks hold about the same number of people. But a guy in a tank crew would never say the guy in the next tank "didn't serve with him". Especially a fellow commander of a tank crew.

One captain of a swiftboat is free to criticize the captain of the boat next to him; just like the tank driver is free to criticize the driver of the tank next to him. It is common sense.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
McCain's point (which Hoffman et al seem to miss) is to rehash Vietnam isn't productive when there are substantive, important issues which need to be discussed. Whether some guys who may or may not have known Kerry over 30 years ago like him is inconsequential.

McCain is right.

The RNC should listen to him. This could very well bite Dubya in the butt.

Dude is right. Kerry turned his own cameras onto his Vietnam service. He pushed that issue into the forefront for his own purposes, forsaking the "substantive, more important issues which need to be discussed". It is the centerpiece of Kerry's claims of presidential viability. We at the least have a right to know if he's lying about it.

If Bush's claim to presidential leadership was his time in the Guard, we'd need to spend much more time and energy investigating that claim. As it is, Bush's claim to presidential leadership is his service as commander in chief for the past 4 years. We have every right responsibility to investigate his claims concerning that service.

[Dooby]

OK, my last comment on the subject. As Pres. Bartlett on the West Wing said, "See the whole board."

This started with Kerry. And the Democrats and with Bush and the Nat'l Guard.

Democrats raised the nat'l guard stuff again, not because they wanted to make political hay out of it, but because they wanted to back Bush and the Republicans away from Kerry's anit-war stuff. Shift the debate before it is framed. It is called innoculation, and it happens in politics all the time. There is no better example of political innoculation than John McCain's championing of campaign-finance reform, because if you don't recall, McCain was one of the "Keating 5", and I don't think I heard that brought up once in 2000.

As long as it stayed this way, nothing was going to happen.

Kerry, unfortunately for him, looked at the polling and decided to make a big deal about his time in Vietnam. This again goes back to the whole pundit comments that Kerry is a better resume than a person. So if Kerry is going to talk about his time in Vietnam, he is going to have to talk about his time in Vietnam. The democratic machine new this crap was out there. The democratic machine knew this stuff was coming. The troubling thing is that if the first words out of their mouth are to rip the messenger, then that leads me to believe they don't have too much to say about the content.

Here is the thing that would bug me if I am a democrat. There are how many Kerry books out there? Surely the people who, in the words of the Kerry campaign, "served" with Kerry have been asked to detail their time with Kerry before. Shouldn't that be where the kerry campaign be going? "Sgt. X said in a 1984 interview about Kerry when he was running for senate, yada yada yada." Where is that? Shouldn't the people who, in the words of the Kerry campaign, "served" with Kerry be out there now? Didn't you want them out there yesterday instead of the weekend?

It just strikes me as if the Kerry camp is not very prepared for this. But they ought to be. They clearly knew this was coming. So where is the well thought out, wel reasoned, rebuttal?

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
This is nothing but a group of partisan hacks, who I would bet my ever-loving mother that they are funded by a big-wing rich republican.

]


I don't understand why "being funded by big-wing rich republicans" would necessarily make a difference. Who is kerry for example funded by but "big-wing rich democrats". Someone has to fund them and it would make sense it would be a conservative.

You don't think the NYTimes or ABC were going to give them free air time do you?.

And why shouldn't people throw them money to promote their free speech. I see people throwing money at the maggot moore all over the world to promote his "free" speech.

I'm sure these guys will be called nazis pretty soon...it's the left's way.

From the interviews I've heard the guys seem pretty down to earth, nothing like Howard Dean for example. And there are plenty of guys on there who's war records are every bit as valid as kerry's.

Again you talk a big game, but prove it. Until then cry me a river.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
First of all, anybody who thinks this is a unbias group only out for the truth, LOL no actually nobody could be that native. This is nothing but a group of partisan hacks, who I would bet my ever-loving mother that they are funded by a big-wing rich republican. 5 out the 6 men(one is deased) who were actually ON Kerry's boat endorse him 110%, but we are to take the words of a group of guys, funded by the right, who admittedly never served with Kerry nor have any examples of "shotty leadership"? Nobody, I mean nobody, LEFT of Ann Coulter(90% of the country) will take this for more then a grain of salt. Then you got maybe the most respected politician on either side, John McCain outwardly condeming this attack. So you got all 5 of the alive men who are right next to Kerry in those boats, supporting him, McCain the most famous living war hero saying the ad is "dishonest and dishonorable" against a group of partisan, funded, vets, looking for 15 minutes, and not a single ONE ever served alongside Kerry. "Hello Mcfly, Knock, Knock" Please, please, donate to this group, get that ad playing everywhere, give them all you can check, money order, paypal, hell I might even throw them a couple dollars.

Just where are you getting your facts that 5 out of the 6 men on Kerry's boat support him? All I've see is 2 out of the 6 support him.

BTW, John McCain is hardly the most respected politician on either side. He has his good points and his bad points just like every single politician, But I wouldn't list him even in my top 10 of most respected politicians.

And you sure have a narrow definition of having served with Kerry. To have served with Kerry you would have had to have been one of the 5 people under his direct command. If this is Kerry's total military experience, interacting with 5 men, then Kerry is a complete idiot for calling such attention to his Vietnam military service and deserves all the criticism that he gets.

[Drbio]

It is only one of six according to the link that dude provided in another thread.

[chumdawg]

My understanding was that the 13 guys on stage at the convention had ALL served with Kerry on his boat, at one time or another. I guess they rotate them regularly. The "one" guy supporting him (in that picture you may have seen) is one of 23 fellow skippers, who each captained swift boats of their own.

I may be wrong. Regardless, it seems that there are more who oppose him than who support him.

[dude1394]

This post says that the most outrageous claim the dems are making that ONLY the people on Kerry's boat should have an opinion. Pretty damning stuff.

balloonj

The Democrats in a Nutshell

It appears clear that the Democratic response to the Swift Boat commercial is a three-pronged front, consisting of personal attacks, legal attacks, and flat-out lies. I touched on this last night in a late-night post, but much of this is worth further discussion.

For the record, I don't know what to believe about the commercial. In the past, I have been willing to give Kerry the benefit of the doubt, and I will continue to do so until the story shakes out. However, I find theDemocratic attempts to silence these men despicable. They may be wrong, they may be lying, but these men served out country just like John Kerry, and far more so than former President Clinton, so their side deserves to be checked.

The personal attacks have been well-documented, as have been the legal challenges. However, what has not been challenged, at least other than here, is the big, fat, whopper of a lie that the Democrats are currently peddling. It is clear the talking points have been handed out- let's review them.

The first I saw of the talking points appeared in the Miami Herald:

The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. The leader of the group, retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's.

Media Matters, the wholly owned subsidiarity of the DNC, funded by George Soros, has been quick to pass out the talking points:

Despite the ad's claim, members of the group did not serve with Senator John Kerry on his swift boat in Vietnam. Not only did the programs ignore that fact, but FOX News Channel hosts Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes went so far as to call them Kerry's "fellow crewmates."

You see where this is going, don't you? They were not on the actual boat with Kerry, so therefore they have no idea who the man is or what he was like during the time in question. Except, of course, this defies reality. As I stated last night, you almost have to admire the brazenness and the audacity of those willing to make this statement, because it is so misleading and stupid that surely they must be afriad of being caught.

To the facts:

1.) Kerry, according to his own biography, served with the following UNITS:

- November 17, 1968- Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.

- December 6, 1968- Kerry moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island

- December 13, 1968- Kerry moved to Coastal Division 13, Cam Ranh Bay

This is important information, because right away, you should understand that the nonsense the Kerry campaign and its surrogates are peddling is nonsense. While the Kerry campaign may hope that everyone thinks Kerry's Swiftboat experience was much like the long, solo journey portrayed in Apocalypse Now, this is not the case. Kerry was stationed with his crew and all the other men in his repsective units at their bases.

2.) A decription of Cam Ranh Bay:

While the concentration at Cam Ranh Bay of Market Time headquarters and forces during the summer of 1967, the demand for base support became extraordinary. Accordingly, the Naval Support Activity Saigon, Detachment Cam Ranh Bay, was redesignated the Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay, a more autonomous and self sufficient status. A greater allocation of resources and support forces to the shore installation resulted in an improved ability to cope with the buildup of combat units. In time, the Cam Ranh Bay facility accomplished major vessel repair and dispensed a greater variety of supply items to the anti-infiltration task force. In addition the naval contingent at the Joint Service Ammunition Depot issued ammunition to the coastal surveillance, river patrol and mobile riverine forces as well as to the Seventh Fleet’s gunfire support destroyers and landing ships. Seabee Maintenance unit 302 provided public works assistance to the many dispersed Naval Support Activity, Saigon detachments.

As a vital logistic complex, Cam Ranh Bay continued to function long after the Navy’s combat forces withdrew from South Vietnam as part of the Vietnamization of the war.

A description of An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island:

Of all the Navy’s bases in South Vietnam, An Thoi, on the southern tip of Phu Quoc Island in the Gulf of Siam, was the most isolated. Almost 1000 miles from Subic Bay, it taxed the seventh Fleet’s mobile logistic support force during the Vietnam War. Still naval leaders recognized early the strategic value of the site: from there the naval forces could readily interdict sea infiltration of communist men and supplies from Cambodia. Another favorable consideration was the availability to American units of real estate near the Vietnamese Navy’s existing compound.

These were bases. There was billeting (naval vessels, billet barges, on-shore billets, etc.), supply depots, docks for repair, etc. In other words, John Kerry was not sitting on a boat with only five crewmen for the entirety of his stay. Instead, he was staying with his entire UNIT.

3.) A description of a typical Swift Boat Unit:

The Division is now comprised of twenty-three officers and one hundred and twenty enlisted men divided into boat crews. A crew is comprised of one officer and five enlisted men who are trained as a team so that if the need arises one man can step in and do the other's job. The crews must be constantly alert 24 hours a day for they never know when the VC will strike.

4.) A description of a combat mission:

During the early hours of 1 March, four SWIFTS of Coastal Division 14 and several RVN Coastal patrol craft located an enemy steel-hulled ship attempting to infiltrate guns and ammunition to the VC. In what has been since described as "the greatest sea engagement of the Vietnamese conflict" PCFs 46, 47, 48 and 43 destroyed the 120 foot enemy trawler. The murderous .50 caliber machine gun and 81mm mortar fire enabled victory after a 15-minute battle. As in all victories some prices must be paid; two men aboard PCF-48 were wounded. ENFN Galliher suffered a minor leg wound and GMG2 Ulmer, a shoulder wound. today Galliher is back on the job and Ulmer recuperating in Japan. We all give Thanks that it was not more serious and wish Ulmer a speedy recovery. All personnel involved have been recommended to receive medals for their heroic actions.

5.) Descriptions of combat from Kerry's OWN website:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission.

Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River.

Is this enough? Still don't believe me? Go watch the Kerry videos- count the boats.

In short, it is an absurd notion that because these men were not on the same exact boat they did not serve with Kerry. They fought together, slept together, bled together, ate together, and drank together. Pretending otherwise is the mother of all whoppers, and serves only to diminish Kerry's credibility.

As I stated yesterday, I am shocked that they would attempt a lie this big. But then again, Kerry is aware that the press is in bed with him, and his base would not know any better. After all, while Kerry was running around the Mekong Delta torching villages in the latter part of 1968 (and that is his own testimony, and not just unfounded some slur I made up), the core of his supporters were also busy burning things- albeit ROTC buildings, draft cards, and bras. It is not surprising that they should have no understanding of the military.

The idea that they can lie to the rest of us like this is obscene. Mind you- none of this means that the story of the Swift Boat Vets for Truth is accurate. Nor does it diminish Kerry's service- this was not a stay at the Hilton. It does, however, shed some light on the Kerry campaign and their surrogates.

[Mavdog]

It appears clear that the Democratic response to the Swift Boat commercial is a three-pronged front, consisting of personal attacks, legal attacks, and flat-out lies. I touched on this last night in a late-night post, but much of this is worth further discussion.

LOL! These guys level a personal attack based on nothing but their opinions, but it's kerry who's accused of a "personal attack".

I am not aware of any "legal attack", and this article sure doesn't reveal any.

"pretty damning stuff" indeed....of the veracity of this piece, yes.

[dude1394]

The article is being pretty factual. Is the DNC not using a three pronged attack.
First - Swiftvets are a bunch of republican political hacks. There claims are big made up lies because they are so partisan.
Second - Legal Attack.. Mostly subtle as they have had their lawyers send letters to television stations hinting that there could be legal action if they air the ads. letter
Third - Stating (as has been done here on this board) that these men's opinions are worthless because they were not on the same boat as kerry and therefore would not be in a position to make observations of his character and conduct. That one is the bald-faced-whopper. It's obviously an opinion but it's such a ridiculous opinion (as per the link above) that it's a fabrication.